whats the deal with this? [G5 bashing from slashdot]

Originally posted by TEXAS

I go home to a PC because, simply put, they are better. I won't explain it any more than that because I've no doubt a flame war would start so lets just say thats my opinion and leave it at that.
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fast user switching is better on macs ( but that is still in beta form)(and trust me ive tried it on both machines)
playin music on a mac is easier and better.
copyin cd and dvds on a mac is better and easier.
playin dvds on a mac is better and easier.
installin an app on a mac is better and easier.
installing the whole OS on a mac is better and easier.
and the list goes on and on... u figure them out urself..

anyways . i used to come back home to a PC simply because that was my only choice... until i too saw the light, and left the dark side :)

its ok that u find PCs better, u might also find a Ford to be better than a BMW.. but in the end. a BMW is much better than a Ford. i know that, u might find that out in 50 years time.. ur loss :)
 
Fast user switching.... wow.
Playing music is far easier with an absolute plethora of jukeboxes to chose from on the PC.
Copying cd's... great. Like thats a real bonus..
Playing DVD's through something like WinDVD using my ATI 9700 pro is infinitely better on my PC.
Installing apps is my forte, I find it much easier to control where things go and keep separate from the OS on a PC.
The list goes on and on... I have figured them out.

I have a Mercedes, I expect the same standard in my computers, which is why I use a PC :p

But like I did say this will turn into a flame war so lets just accept that we disagree on this subject and get back to my original gripe, that Mac users seem to be very quick to put down anything that suggests that they might be wrong.

The G5 has brought you up to the same standard as PC's are at the moment, thats good news. The fact that you had to wait for ages isn't. The fact that you quickly put down any criticism is also bad. Try to accept that what Apple say isn't always the whole truth, just like the goverment.

ooo noticed the edit above. Yes I am provoking a reaction, I enjoy discussing/argueing with people on forums, especially about subjects that the people are as set in their ways in the same way as religous zealots ;)
 
So many people, so many views ...

Instead of trying to bash each other's head in with your keyboards, try to define what "better" means. Define "Good" and then go on with the discussion. Arguments without definitions and agreement on certain premisses are completely useless!

The Mac is not better than the PC, the Mac is different, makes different choices, which from the perspective of most Mac users are perceived as better. Same is true of PC users.

What is better? Is it MHz? Real world speed? Benchmarks? Pleasing aesthetics? Workflow? Personal experience?

First define then discuss!
 
I'm backing Cat, in my 1173 (ish) post history, I've had it with Troll-baiting::angel::
 
OK I will start a thread to discuss points, if anyone wants to reply they can.

Where on these forums would be best to discuss this kind of subject?

(oh, it's only troll baiting if you get a bite :) )
 
BMW are better than Mercedes .

and this is my 90th post. yey.. he he he :)

(oh and TEXAS this is a MAC forum, if ur a pc fan . pls go to a PC forum. doesnt take much of an iq to figure that out. and change ur car. it sucks.. and i know much more bout cars than i know about computers and macs... so dont go creating a new post tryin to defend ur car or ur pc. just face it, they both suck :))
 
Originally posted by TEXAS
OK so the typing is atrocious, along with the spelling but English is only my second language so :p

I'm in large publishing house in London (in fact you will know it if I said it, which I'm not going to) with approx 1500 Mac users, all pretty much useless at anything but editing. We are trying with carrots and sticks to get them to use PC's in some form or other to do all the normal office type work but they hold onto their Macs like babies dummys, even when we show them the benefits (which are real and huge).
I go home to a PC because, simply put, they are better. I won't explain it any more than that because I've no doubt a flame war would start so lets just say thats my opinion and leave it at that.

I have to base my calling of Mac users 'ignorant' on what I see at work. If they are a good example of what most people who use Macs are like then I think I am nearly spot on. Have a look at the posts in this forum (not all of course) and I think you will see that the majority are not erm.. mature? Rather than have a balanced view towards all computers I think you will see the trend is more of a 'I LUV MACS AND NEVER SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THEM!!!'.
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This is pretty much the attitude of most IT people I have ever met. I know more than you so you are all morons.

The fact is TEXAS that you don't know how to properly administer a mac shop.

I have run and been in shops that have huge numbers of macs as well as the "average operator", and while there are some people who are just hopeless when it comes to technology, this has little to do with it being a mac. In fact I would guess that you will have far more problems with these users if you get them on PCs than if you just got the damn systems working well and left them alone.

It is an accepted "joke" in the tech industry that the mac is the test bed for Microsoft where new technology is concerned. They steal almost everything from someone else and then don't even do as good a job as the original. This is the way it has been from the start (CPM), so let's not try and claim MS is an innovator.

The mac is a better platform for a number of reasons. I will not use OS9 as an example, because admittedly it had problems. But we are now years past OS9 and OSX is fast, solid and very stable.
I have a mixed network of several machines and I have far more uptime with my Macs. I run Win2K because of the software I run and find I can keep ot mostly stable for some length of time... nothing like OSX though. I do have to re-install all my OS and apps on W2k thanks to bit rot. I have never had to do this with OSX. As a matter of fact, I am working with an OSX install that has migrated smoothly from OS9 to OSX beta to the current release without a re-install... EVER! Try doing that from 95 to NT to 2K to XP.
 
quote: The fact is TEXAS that you don't know how to properly administer a mac shop

Don't tell my boss or my team! They seem to think I do, I'm happy with that. Thats why I can chose my own rate :)

quote: I have run and been in shops that have huge numbers of macs as well as the "average operator", and while there are some people who are just hopeless when it comes to technology, this has little to do with it being a mac. In fact I would guess that you will have far more problems with these users if you get them on PCs than if you just got the damn systems working well and left them alone.

Hehe, this is the standard reaction from all the Mac users who are afraid of change, or being proved wrong. It's not that they are technologically useless, they manage to do what they need to most of the time due to the simplistic nature of the Mac, it's the attitude that seems to go with owning one.

I would suggest that you have not got the configuration right for your W2K machines if you don't find them as stable as your Mac's, or perhaps if you had the PC's doing as little varied work as your Mac probably does then you would find an improvement.
 
Originally posted by TEXAS
Fast user switching.... wow.
Playing music is far easier with an absolute plethora of jukeboxes to chose from on the PC.
Copying cd's... great. Like thats a real bonus..
Playing DVD's through something like WinDVD using my ATI 9700 pro is infinitely better on my PC.
Installing apps is my forte, I find it much easier to control where things go and keep separate from the OS on a PC.
The list goes on and on... I have figured them out.
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Well, aside from having a pretty damned good utility in iTunes, there is Audion, CCDP, CD Player, Mercury, SimpleAudio and more.

How is WinDVD infinitely better? I personally would use PowerDVD, but I still like the Mac's cleaner interface. Plus the video quality is better.

I really have to take issue with the last point. Installing is easier on a pc? How do you control where things go? Most PC installers will put resources in specific places that you have no control over. OSX has started to add the *nix variety of resource allocation to the MacOS, but it is hardly like Windows. That and most applications can be installed by simply dragging their icons into a folder and I can't see how you can even make this statement.
 
PowerDVD is good, but I dislike the control center myself, personal choice. Also with the video quality, I find the 9700 much better, but then my screen is quality so I can't really compare to what I see at work (Obviously the video editing suite at work is good quality, but I cant really compare it to what I have, that wouldn't really be right).

Installing applications on a PC is a bit of a misnomer really, if you know what you are doing and know how it all works you would know what I mean and how it's done, I don't think it would do any good to explain the ins and outs of installing a PC application properly here. I shall admit that the average Joe user can screw things up eventually.
 
TEXAS why dont u go register on: http://www.macfora.com

and go waste ur useless time over there:)
or else ill take out my jedi knight and destroy ur useless car + pc and then ill star laughin :p hahaha and u can start crying :)
 
Originally posted by uoba
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:D
 
Besides Windows bashing I've yet to hear a good answer to the following:
It looks more to me like you lot are afraid of something. Whats with the knee jerk reactions to a bit of criticism?
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Good point TEX, I'll give it a shot.
Mac user in general are tired of hearing "PC's are faster, Windows is standard anyway, etc.". An automatic reaction is easily triggered. We're all exited about the G5 and panther and reclaiming the performance crown.
WinWord10 was raining on our parade, and we were pissed off a bit.

There's nothing for us to be afraid of: The Mac has just made a huge jump forward. Both the OS and the hardware announced at WWDC will give the Mac a huge boost in performance, bringing it on par with the competition at least and propelling it even further IMHO. We are least of all afraid, we are euforic! :) The Mac offers us all we need and more: beside all the beatiful elements of the interface (ease of use, pleasing eye candy, workflow enhancements) we get all the advantages of Unix underneath (CLI, X11, OpenSource). Windows and Linux cannot really compete with this on the same level. This is now complemented by far better hardware than we had before.
We are Mac and we are not afraid!

Definition of Good/Better:
Well, we have a number of options here.
1) Good is what works. No problems here, both PC's and Macs get work done.
Better is what works a) faster. The discussion here is open. The G5 was proclaimed performance king. Benchmarks are being attacked and defended everywhere, but there are no shipping systems widely available yet. I suppose it is safe to say that, with respect to the hardware, Mac and PC's are on a par. There are other things that matter, however. The Mac has claimed a more intuitive interface that speeds up workflow. Linux and windows do not make similar claims, and trolls simply deny this point. The burden of proof lies not with us ...

Better is b) a higher quality. This depends largely on specific demands and specific programs or specific pieces of hardware. Most of these are widely available for both platforms and OS'es. High resolution printers, scanners, data storage, Offices, image manipulation programs, compilers etc. There are a host of options and the scala covers all levels from low level to the highest on both platforms. So we are still head to head here.

2) Good is what pleases.
Tha Mac probably gives more attention to aesthetically pleasing design of its hardware and appearance of its OS, but pleasure comes also from entertainment in the form of games, audio and video. This is the domain of user experience and tastes. Discussion is open here, but the platforms IMHO start on a par. More games for the PC, better overall experience for the Mac. I am inclined to favor the Mac since it addresses the issue specifically with the iLife package.

So my conclusion is ... we're largely even. :D
And the debate is open: Open means, no flames and give room to (intelligent) criticism.

BTW: "I like Macs so Macs are the best" is not an argument. Subjectively it may be true for you personally, but we are trying to be objective here ... aren't we? The important thing is trying to spell out WHY you think one is better than the other.
 
Thank you Cat, you have answered the first question admirably. I agree with the premise that things are very even now, and in fact am glad that Mac has finally given Mac users what they have needed for a long time now, a catch up to what was going on in the PC world. Competition is needed to stir innovation and progress; this can only be good for both camps.

My main reason for posting initially was because of the amount of threads that just decried the fact that the G5 tests may be slightly skewed in favor of the Mac (benchmarks between the 2 systems are contentious at best) and perhaps the claims shouted from the rooftops of 'worlds fastest home computer' should have been tempered slightly.

Preference between the interfaces of both systems is purely personal, and can't really be argued about. Styling of the Mac has made PC manufacturers have to come up with something a bit more pleasing to the eye, beige boxes are soooo boring (luckily my SN41G2 Shuttle is beautiful).

As much as I hate to admit it, I must agree, that at the top end of the market things are very even, time will tell if they can begin to offer Macs with the sort of performance that PC users have had for some time at the bottom end of the market. For instance, a cost of £700 got me a machine which will kill a top end G4 in the pure performance stakes, and with some tweaking freeware I have made the interface look exactly like a Mac.

(I changed it back though :D )


edited for my very poor English :(
 
I have to agree with you there, a £700 PC could compare to the performance of a top G4, though, one factor in this, will be the machine's longevity compared to the G4. A point not too often overlooked by the Mac user, is the fact that the mac will usually last a lot longer than a lot of PC hardware (hence the higher price tag).

Are we off topic or what? ;)
 
a pc could compare with a g4? in what sense ? when working with one app only eg photoshop ?

have u ever tried multitasking on a p4 3 ghz ??? try opening several apps on that thing and the music skips.

i have a G4 933mhz Pmac and i loaded the screen effects app with the red pill screen saver, i loaded many many apps and the damn music still wouldnt skip and at the same time i was writing a DVD without any fear.
my friend with a pentium 1.7 ghz was writing a simple freakin cd and all i did was a right click>properties on a few files and the lame thing was thinking for more than 2 mins :) (and were talking about a system which is less than 1 year old)
 
erm.. it's not really an arguement is it? Your friends PC sounds like it isn't setup very well for what you tried to do.

As I sit here with Bob Marley wailing in the background, a CD being burnt from an ISO image I retrieved from a terminal session to a PC miles away and perfmon running, I hear no skip. I'm afraid thats not very strong a case for selling my PC and going out and spend 4 times as much on a new Mac.
 
thats the point. a mac doesnt need a proper set up. even a 10 year old can set it up perfectly

of course windows XP should be easy for every1 to set up, even for my friend (who is very skillful with computers) , windows 2000 server on the other hand shouldnt be that easy to set up just like MAc OS X server for the mac :)

oh and TEXAS pls make all ur windows transparent and have a movie playin as ur desktop background and have music playin at the same time, take a screen capture of that, post it here . (and im sure ur music will be playin just fine)
 
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