When will Apple get any respect?

G

Go3iverson

Registered
Really, when will it happen?

The questions are always there. The answers seem to change depending on what Apple comes up with.

Innovation. Apple has innovated the entire PC market. Market share? What can less than 5% do to over 95%? A lot, evidently. The Cube? How many case manufacturers now make cube cases now? FireWire, USB keyboards/mice, huge LCD displays, DVD burners...it goes on and on. Heck, look at the Sony Vaio RS320 desktop...Quicksilver anyone?

Motorola drops the ball on the CPUs and we hear about it every day since. The G4 is this and that and the other thing. Fine. Bring in the PPC 970/G5 from IBM. A beast. Think about it. Not too many people go the 167MHz bus G4 chips. Most of those PowerMacs were at 133Mhz on the bus. That's one line. More likely, people had 100Mhz bused computers, or even iBooks that had 66MHz buses for the majority of their existence. So, we'll say 100Mhz....fast forward to 1000Mhz in a one day turn around. Couple that with a 64-bit chip, PCI-X, DDR, AGP 8x, 802.11g, etc and you have an amazing turn around and some seriously powerful hardware.

Apple lied. No, its not that fast. Oh, it is? Well, the video card is horrible! Where are the video games? Where's the software?

I'm sorry, but my computers are not for games. I own a few and I own a PC that I built, that never gets turned on. It's powerful and it has XP Pro on it. It collects dust. Nothing wrong with it at all, I just prefer my Macs. Games don't touch my machines. That's why I own gaming consoles. I spend all day at a computer, why would I want to spend what little leisure time I get in front of it too playing games? I want out of that environment when I can!

And since we're talking about serious computing, why is it that the first knock at Apple is game support?

This post is not to knock PCs or anything of that nature. If you got that idea, I'm sorry, it wasn't intended. Each machine has its strengths and weaknesses. Just what exactly does Apple have to pull out to get respect?

OS 9 is too unstable? Ok. Here's UNIX with the slickest GUI around and an insane level of ease to use.

It's too carooney and childish...not serious enough.

Windows XP? Purple and green reminds me of the Joker and it's got more colors in it that OS X. Now I hear that Longhorn has application animations? They also have this great new technology where the AGP card takes control of the GUI and desktop and such...wish Mac had that...(Quartz Extreme).

We got that back in 2002. So when Longhorn comes out in 2005 or early 2006, they'll have 4 year old Mac OS X components in it.

Again, I'm sure Longhorn will be a quality Microsoft product, but why is it that when Apple does it, it's garbage, but when the PC world follows 6 months to 4 years later, it's revolutionary?

Ok, that's enough for now.
 
What makes you think Apple doesn't get the respect they deserve? They release G5 PowerMacs and people accuse them of faking the scores and you feel that's disrespect? I see a lot more respectable websites praising Apple.

Quick word about innovation: some of those "innovations" aren't really innovations, rather it's just Apple taking an existing technology and bringing it to the masses, which is just as good. Other times it's an innovation that doesn't go far. Example: the G4 Cube died young but the concept picked up popularity in the PC market much better.

I agree that games should not be pointed out as a weakness of the Mac platform. But look at it this way, in terms of software available there's nothing you can do on a PC that can't also be done on the Mac and vice versa, they're pretty much equals. Except for games. It's a weakness one way or another but its importance will vary from different people's opinions like yourself.

Apple does have people's respect. What they don't have is more market share, or a smaller user base, call it what you will. It's difficult to explain why it's that way, just as difficult to explain the fanacticism exhibited from some Mac users.

What is it that's really bothering you? You say that you do not care about games on a computer, ok we're past that. There's plenty of software and peripheral hardware to do everything you could want to do with your Mac so nothing lacking there. What is it that's missing for you then?
 
As I've said in a few earlier posts, I'm a recent convert from the Wintel world. Coming from that side of the virtual globe, I can tell you that many people watch Apple to see what MS is going to have in a few years. So it's not that Apple is getting dissed, it's more that Microsoft is a BLOATEDLY MONSTEROUSLY FANTASMAGORICALLY HUGE company, and their announcments get afforded top billing. Apple announcments, on the other hand, generally only reach those already in the Apple community or those specifically watching Apple.

*shrug*

Tim.
 
It certainly is annoying when Apple releases a new line of whatever with all these improvements over anything else out there, yet PC laurels don't even acknowledge that Apple or this product they just released exist when they review something similar, even if inferior.
 
I respect Apple for what its done (even its missteps) and for what it's doing. I think the differences between the two platforms are getting smaller each and every day, but that's not a bad thing. And I know that there others who feel the same way, even if it's not every Tom, Dick and Harry on the block. Then again, most Tom, Dick and Harry aren't too bright and should stick with AOL. I really don't care if the masses get it or not as long as I do, and that it continues so I can still get "it".
 
Originally posted by Go3iverson
Really, when will it happen?

The questions are always there. The answers seem to change depending on what Apple comes up with.

Innovation. Apple has innovated the entire PC market. Market share? What can less than 5% do to over 95%? A lot, evidently. The Cube? How many case manufacturers now make cube cases now? FireWire, USB keyboards/mice, huge LCD displays, DVD burners...it goes on and on. Heck, look at the Sony Vaio RS320 desktop...Quicksilver anyone?

Motorola drops the ball on the CPUs and we hear about it every day since. The G4 is this and that and the other thing. Fine. Bring in the PPC 970/G5 from IBM. A beast. Think about it. Not too many people go the 167MHz bus G4 chips. Most of those PowerMacs were at 133Mhz on the bus. That's one line. More likely, people had 100Mhz bused computers, or even iBooks that had 66MHz buses for the majority of their existence. So, we'll say 100Mhz....fast forward to 1000Mhz in a one day turn around. Couple that with a 64-bit chip, PCI-X, DDR, AGP 8x, 802.11g, etc and you have an amazing turn around and some seriously powerful hardware.

Apple lied. No, its not that fast. Oh, it is? Well, the video card is horrible! Where are the video games? Where's the software?

I'm sorry, but my computers are not for games. I own a few and I own a PC that I built, that never gets turned on. It's powerful and it has XP Pro on it. It collects dust. Nothing wrong with it at all, I just prefer my Macs. Games don't touch my machines. That's why I own gaming consoles. I spend all day at a computer, why would I want to spend what little leisure time I get in front of it too playing games? I want out of that environment when I can!

And since we're talking about serious computing, why is it that the first knock at Apple is game support?

This post is not to knock PCs or anything of that nature. If you got that idea, I'm sorry, it wasn't intended. Each machine has its strengths and weaknesses. Just what exactly does Apple have to pull out to get respect?

OS 9 is too unstable? Ok. Here's UNIX with the slickest GUI around and an insane level of ease to use.

It's too carooney and childish...not serious enough.

Windows XP? Purple and green reminds me of the Joker and it's got more colors in it that OS X. Now I hear that Longhorn has application animations? They also have this great new technology where the AGP card takes control of the GUI and desktop and such...wish Mac had that...(Quartz Extreme).

We got that back in 2002. So when Longhorn comes out in 2005 or early 2006, they'll have 4 year old Mac OS X components in it.

Again, I'm sure Longhorn will be a quality Microsoft product, but why is it that when Apple does it, it's garbage, but when the PC world follows 6 months to 4 years later, it's revolutionary?

Ok, that's enough for now.
Click to expand...

i think your giving apple too much credit on the "Apple has innovated the entire PC market"... only a handful of pc manufactures make cube case. USB was created by intel and others i believe to compete with fw. dont know much about lcd's. dvd burners? i dont think apple builds them...

Most people who bash pc's and macs dont even know what they are talking about most of the time.
Its usually those who are fair minded who know. I must admit im completelty a pc user right now. check my sig for the specs. during the whole G5 benchmark tests there were alot of pc-users on pc majority forums who defended the mac. its really only a handful who need to bash either platform. for what i dont really know.
also i think the argument people make that pcs are only good for games is about as old as macs have no software...

Onto WindowsXP. Ya its not the best OS it has a crap load of security holes that MS does patch its still no excuse considering their massive R&D. I can get through XP fine it does everything i need done. is it sometimes more work then usual of course but what can you do?

For a time many people bashed mac hardware because their was a gap with the G3 and G4 compared to intel and amd. so we had faster procs with a mid-level OS. while you guys had a very superior OS and really ahead of its time. now though the gap is next to none. So now you have both hardware and software. If MS can get things right with Longhorn hopefully pc users will also be on the same level with OS and hardware. What does piss me off is microsoft has the capability to make a great OS but with a market share of 90%+ they could careless. which sux for us...

Lastly you might be thinking what im doing here. Well im mystified by apples innovation. OSX, iapps, the new G5. I also really love the ibook style its awesome...
 
I try to tell people...
Virtual PC! Run Windows on the Mac, run your games and software that dosn't run on Mac!
"PCs are much faster, Macs suck. THe OS sucks. There's no such thing as windows on a mac. Macs crash everytime you start them up"
Get it every time from PC friends...
God... I have to tell theb bout Unix, OS X, VPC, sheesh...
"They cost too much!"
THis is where I walk away... this is the ONLY thing I hate about apple.
 
I see a recent trend of Mac respect. Having used them for 18 years, things are getting better. I realized it when Cnet gave a Powermac a great review. Not that I care what Cnet says, although for years they trashed Apple for its hardware and software.
Another trend I see is some, not many win$ users are tried of the interface, worried about the security, and pissed off about the endless updates.
The Washington Post, NYT, and others have given Apple decent reviews, and praise, traditionally, they did not.
It is getting somewhat better. Mac OSX has helped.
 
I love it when people tell me that macs cost too much. The first thing I say is, "well, Porsche's cost a lot too... I guess you want a hyundai."

The slow comment has always made me laugh too... Yes the G4 fell behind the P4 in terms of raw speed...but for anyone whos ever used a top end G4 - honestly, has you ever sat there and said to yourself "God I hate this thing, its so slow"

Computers are so fast these days, the differences between fast and faster don't translate into any difference in user experience.

And then we get into that end of it... I feel trapped when I am using a PC [like right now]. No iTunes, iPhoto, Safari, Adium, Mail.app - the list goes on and on... I'm talking about the dozens of free OSX only aps that I use every day. Sure all of these applications have counter PC competitors but have you ever used any of them? They're horrible in comparison!

If price and speed were the only things that mattered, apple wouldn't have any customers. The reality is, user experience is what matters to us, and thats why we use the mac. So what if our market share is less, we're still getting the best experience in the world... Just like driving a Porsche. We're elite :)
 
Originally posted by AnimuS
.... USB was created by intel and others i believe to compete with fw....
Click to expand...
Intel bought USB. I suppose that purchases pass for creations in the Wintel world.
 
Bought USB?
unless this is something new, it seems to me, that Intel, Apple, Microsoft, IBM, HP etc were all members of an alliance that created USB. USB1 never was, and never could have been a competitor to Firewire.
 
Again, I'm not saying Apple invented USB or the DVD burner, I'm saying they set the trend on those things that we all as a computing community reap the benefits of.

I would think popular opinion will continue to swing into 2004. G5 is a beast and the possabilities are huge on it. We know in 2004 we will be at 3.0GHz in our PowerMac line. That's huge! We know that Panther has huge advancements in it. Apple is becoming mainstream behind the scenes by pushing Kerberos in their OS and things like Active Directory support and such. As they integrate more of the "rest of the world" into their OS, it will pick up users.

It's funny. Apple's user base is actually increasing, from what I've read, despite their percentages decreasing. It's a misleading statistic. Remember, more and more people are buying computers. It's just that the PC market, obviously, expands faster than Apple's does. It doesn't necessarily indicate a loss of consumers or lack of growth.
 
Go3iverson, i was responding to MisterMe' post about intel buying usb.
I agree with you fully Go3.
 
Oh, I know, it was more directed back at Animus, who was the first saying that Apple doesn't build this and that, which is 100% true. The thing is, they are the one's that ship it out. We missed the boat on CD-R/CD-RW, but we set the trend in DVD-R.

Its give and take.
 
Apple's biggest problem is price point. You can get a complete Dell system for around $499.00. The closest thing Apple has in that price range is $799 for an eMac and that's not even close.

Even though the eMac is a great computer, if you don't know much and are comparing specs, the Dell seems to beat the Mac in every category.
 
It's a valid point. Apple does make up a lot of ground and you go up the pricing scale. I mean, 1999.00 for the 1.6GHz system is eh, but 2999.00 for the dual 2.0GHz with that huge drive, extra ram, PCI-X, etc is much more attractive!
 
Originally posted by pyroboy
Apple's biggest problem is price point. You can get a complete Dell system for around $499.00. The closest thing Apple has in that price range is $799 for an eMac and that's not even close.

Even though the eMac is a great computer, if you don't know much and are comparing specs, the Dell seems to beat the Mac in every category.
Click to expand...

I don't know who you define that the Dell beats the eMac in every category (HD ? Noise ? Space used ? Processor ? RAM ? Included SW ?) but it definitely beats it on price which is the very first point for a lowest cost machine.
 
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