10.1 not for gaming

Jim Paradise

Registered
There's an amazing port of Quake for OS X. Just look for it at versiontracker.com Runs so bloody well! There's an option to make the game 32... so smooth for such and old classic! :)
 

ABassCube

Registered
Kevin,

Games cannot be made to require a Radeon or GeForce. The ATI RAGE is not obsolete yet, nor is the G3. Even if the games is not made to be run on a laptop, the iMacs still have G3 processors and the RAGE. As I said before, Unreal Tournament runs great in OS 9! I really want an OS X version.

Alice generally works OK in 9, but not well in X. I've asked Aspyr about this, and they said that the RAGE drivers were not complete for X, so it was using software rendering. That's why it's so bad. Once the drivers are complete, I'm sure Alice will run just as good, if not better, in X than in 9.
 

iKevin

Registered
Originally posted by ABassCube
Kevin,

games are not made to require a Radeon or GeForce. The ATI RAGE is not obsolete yet... nor is the G3. Even if the games is not made to be run on a laptop, the iMacs still have G3 processors and the RAGE. As I said before, Unreal Tournament runs great in OS 9! I really want an OS X version.

Alice generally works OK in 9, but not well in X. I've asked Aspyr about this, and they said that the RAGE drivers were not complete for X, so it was using software rendering. That's why it's so bad. Once the drivers are complete, I'm sure Alice will run just as good, if not better, in X than in 9.
No games are not made to "Require" a Radeon/GeForce...but they are the recommended card for the best gaming experienence. True the ATI RAGE isn't obsolete....but it's not anywhere close to being a good gaming card. You mention that UT runs great on OS9 with your 8mb RAGE.....I can only assume you've never ran it on a Radeon/Geforce. If you had, you'd see how poorly it actually does run on the lesser cards.

G3.....Although I have one in my iMac, I will be the first to admit that these processors are on their last legs. They are "barely adequate" to run the modern OS X. If you have any doubt, sit down in front of a G4.

Please don't take any of these comments as a personal insult...they aren't intended that way. I just don't think you have seen TRUE, Intensive gaming. Similar to the 3dfx Voodoo crowd used to be. They swore it(Voodoo) was the best card in the world, even after the Geforce2 was out...when in reality the Geforce2 was a whole new level of gaming and the Voodoo couldn't compete
 

Excalibur

Registered
The reason that Alice runs poorly and Unreal Tournament runs well is the fact that Unreal uses RAVE and Alice uses OpenGL. Rave has a smaller footprint and runs faster than OpenGL on less power video cards. OpenGL is MUCH more memory hungry than RAVE. Most don't know it, but you can run Unreal Tournament in OpenGL and you'll see the speed drop bigtime on slower systems. However RAVE will run just fine. They do have a port of Unreal Tournament for X but I'd wait on that. I can't even get the sucker to run right. LOL! No music support yet either, and it crashes too much for me. Works for some though, just not me. I can wait on a more stabile version. At least it doesn't bring down the entire computer now. :D

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Excalibur
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ABassCube

Registered
Excalibur, thanks for the info.!

Actually, I thought that Alice used RAVE in 9, but OpenGL in X becaue the RAGE drivers weren't complete. If it does run in OpenGL in 9, that would explain it. Actually, after playing it some more, I realize it isn't that different in X than in 9. Every level has been okay until Pool of Tears, and I've heard that Pool of Tears is the most processor-intensive level, and that every level after that is much more manageble on older systems.

BTW, where is that UT port for X? I'd like to try it, even if it is very buggy.
 

Red Phoenix

Registered
Alice uses OpenGL in both OS X and 9 (unless they did a major engine revamp). It runs on the Quake III engine, which was only developed for OpenGL.
 

ABassCube

Registered
When I went to the link, they made it seem as if RAVE would never be supported. Are they serious?! RAVE will never be supported in the OS X verions of UT?! They must be joking! OpenGL sucks on my machine! Unreal Tournament actually ran very smoothly with RAVE. Please reassure me that the OS X verion of UT will support RAVE in the future. I do not want to have to use OS 9 whenever I play UT.
 

theed

Registered
RAVE, although a valid technology, never caught on enough to justify its own hardware and language. Not enough card makers supported it. It was too much silly work to port to from OpenGL or DirectX. We have standardized on OpenGL which is common to code for and well supported in hardware. It's all a good move. Thogh you may need to get a new video card. OpenGL support is part of what makes X a valid gaming platform. It sucks major big time that windows is trying to run with DirectX and taking the X box with it. That's a bunch of people moving to that crap instead of something standard like openGL. I'd like to think that decision would come around to bite them in the arse. I don't foresee it happening.
 

LordOphidian

Adjutant On-Line
RAVE is dead and gone in OS X (or almost there) because QD3D isn't a supported technology in OS X. In X its all about OpenGL, which is a good thing, as its a more standard library and it will and does recieve a large share of attention from game designers.

So, sorry to tell you, but RAVE will never be supported in the X UT, Westlake has already said that. OpenGL, and software will be the only choices for UT. I totaly understand this decision too, although it would be nice if both RAVE and OpenGL could be used on X, its just not going to happen.
 

ABassCube

Registered
Actually, I don't know how UT w/ open GL will run on my machine. I know Alice is pretty jumpy on my machine, and it runs in Open GL. But when I asked Aspyr, they said that Alice was a very graphics-intensive game, especially Pool of Tears, which was the primary level that I was complaining about. They said Pool of Tears jumped even on Radeons. I haven't gotten to a level passed that (I haven't played in a while), but I've heard that most of the levels after that are not as graphics-intensive as Pool of Tears. Can other people verify that this is true?

Also, does Oni run on RAVE or Open GL? Oni runs very smooth on my machine, so if it runs on Open GL, then it probably depends on the game. Does anyone know if I would experience much of a difference between OpenGL and RAVE on a RAGE Mobility with 8 MB of VRAM? My iBook is currently at Apple being repaired, so I cannot try it myself, but I should get it back in a day or two.

Thanks in advance for the info.

Adam.
 

Red Phoenix

Registered
Basically, any game that's run in OS X is run in OpenGL, as it currently isn't possible to run anything with Rave in OS X. So Oni is OpenGL. I haven't played the demo in a while (not since 10.0.1, probably), but I seem to remember that it wasn't really that intensive in the graphics department.
 

Makosuke

Guy Who Loves X
I'm not a "push the limits" kind of guy, but in my limited experience X runs games at least as well as 9 on my DP533/GF2. There do seem to be some games that don't want to run (especially under 10.1), but they're mostly betas, and 10.1 is only a few DAYS old--I'm perfectly willing to give it some time before I start complaining.

And there is a very interesting benchmark at BareFeats: http://www.barefeats.com/pm02.html (scroll down to the bottom). Not only does it show X whipping 9 at Q3, but 10.1 looks way, way better. They may be for high-end hardware, but I trust BareFeats benchmarks, and those were impressive. Oh, and if that weren't enough, he also has a DP800 tying a P4 1.6Ghz -- not bad.
 

Zapchud

Registered
I´ve read alot of bullshit about controls in Q3. It is not X.1's fault, it is two variables who f*** up everything!

if you set
in_mouseHighEndCutoff "0"
in_mouseLowEndSlope "0"
you will not have anymore trouble!

X.1 completely rocks the shirt off OS 9 when it comes to gaming, faster AND better graphics, all mouse buttons without a single driver etc!
 
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