Apple - Part II

What do you think of Mac OS X?

  • I love it! It's my only Mac OS!

  • Fun to play with, but I still do work with OS 9.

  • I don't use it. Software isn't ready.

  • I don't use it. It's way too slow.

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Maybe I'm missing something here. georgelien, you have your PC systems running Windows (which you think has been more advanced than the Mac OS since 1996), so why are you here? Why are we supposed to care what you think?

Please, please, just move totally to Windows. You sound like you would be much happier. You don't need our approval or disapproval, just do what makes you happy. We are all doing what makes us happy, but you seem to be the only one who has some real issues with just leaving. Please just use what makes you happy and stop whining about it.

I think the Windows community is getting what they deserve with you joining their ranks.

Happy ctrl-alt-del!

:D
 
fryke,

I too reformatted the hard drive of my TiBook before performing a clean OS X install onto my Mac. Nothing but OS X. It's so slow when compared OS 9. Believe it or not, my OS X crashes. I mean I had to reboot the computer. I, however, can avoid OS 9 crashes by looking for what causes the crashes.


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It's fine that you all are so protective with your Macs, since--like me--you've already spent a fortune on them. But to lie to yourself that OS X has to be the best Mac OS there is simply because you use it as your only OS is kinda crazy.

Unlike many of you, my ideal world is to have more people using OS X than XP, but I guess this is not your ideal world.

That's fine.

Guess Apple will have to live less than 6% of the market. Not good if it plans to open a total of 25 retail stores. Doesn't matter how much cash it has now, a company can always burn through money with 25 retail stores at hand.

Then perhaps OS X can become the next IBM OS/2--hey, it's a great looking OS--with only a few apps running on it.

Did you guys read this article before blashing me? http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51926,00.html

User experience is suffering. Not the interface experience, but the speed. Apple has to do something about it, fairly quickly.
 
originally said by Fryke
1. The 'UN*X-Feeling' of speed. By that I mean that apps take longer to open but actually run faster. As we (Mac OS users) are used to rather the opposite, this is a big step. It seems like the OS is slow.
Click to expand...

and how did we solve that problem? by leaving our apps launched since it no longer crashes the system with open apps competing for memory:)

overall i agree with Fryke's points. I didn't switch to osx right away. It was terribly slow at first. But graadually it and its apps got a lot better and the overall experience was much better than a perception of speediness here and there in os 9. the fact is, that now when i use os 9 occassionally, it feels slow and sloppy compared to osx. which is exactly the opposite of what george keeps harping on. and i just have a little old imac.

George, is your car slow if it's not doing 80 mph? is your TV slow if it doesn't have a picture the second you turn it on?

just out of curiosity george, and others who think it is slower, do you ever do anything to optimize your disk and system? Do you run prebinding? do you defrag your disk? Do you ever use haxies to take advantage of some of the speed that isn't there "right out of the box"? maybe osx is slow for you because you aren't doing your part.

or maybe type A personalities will not be happy until the computer is 2 steps ahead of their next mouse click.:rolleyes:

maybe your new os is trying to tell you something, you really do get more done at a nice stable, regular pace than in short bursts of perceptual speed. Relax, have a cup of coffee. no wait, make that something decaffinated. ;)
 
Did you guys read this article before blashing me? http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51926,00.html
Click to expand...

Yes, that's old news. And many of us have already declared it flawed. I've never had a site take 10 seconds to load in OS X, even when I used IE as my main browser! I don't seem to have any of those problems. In Mozilla, pages seem to load next to instantly for me. I don't see what everyone is complaining about unless they have a very screwed up OS/software setup and/or internet connection.

User experience is suffering. Not the interface experience, but the speed. Apple has to do something about it, fairly quickly.
Click to expand...

D***IT, are you freakin DEAF (or blind, in this case) ? Or just ignorant?

OS X has been out for a little over a year. What Apple has done in this time is AMAZING! Every 10.0.X update was an improvement, and 10.1 improved even more. It's still growing! I don't care what you think, Apple is not a large company that can afford teams of thousands to just work on the Interface! They're trying, and it'll get better in the next major update, and then the updates after that. Do you go to hospitals and critisize the newborns for not being able to use the toilet, talk, or walk?

As it's been said, if you're not happy with Apple and/or Mac OS X, and you don't have patience enough to wait a few months for it to get better, than go build a Windows 2000 Box and go hang out at Windows Addict! Sell your soul, get a Passport account, buy Norton Virus scan, have a keg party, I don't care! You're not wanted here if all you're going to do is spew out flamebait!

Remember, Good things come to those who wait.
 
Waiting for what? I'm not waiting for anything except lunch time, oh and my Mac Addict subscription to come.

If you've been waiting for something since 1995 and still haven't got it, then maybe it's time to look for something else?
 
BTW, I'm going to clear out my hard drive and reinstall OS X tomorrow. It will be the only OS on my PowerBook G4/500--again--since being able to run X was the reason I bought the TiBook in the first place.

The difference is guys, I have options: OS X, OS 9 or Windows 2000. This is one of the reasons why I liked Apple. It offered an alternative OS if one doesn't like Windows. It still does.

It's just sad that after using Mac OS for over a decade, I find myself surfing the web, writing email and doing work on a PC instead of my Mac.

Most people are not us. Most consumers just want out-of-box-experience. Until Mac OS X produce it as well as the i-Series software that Apple makes, the new default OS can never gain more market share than it has now, unless it can also run on an AMD chip.

Best of luck to OS X!
 
I have had a pretty good out of the box experience, the only problems I've ever had were from me messing with things that shouldn't be messed with, like core system files and hex editors :p

Much better than my Compaq that came with an AMD chip. That had to be the suckiest computer I ever had! Even when I upgraded it from Windows Me to Windows 2000, it still had driver conflicts, ram problems, random crashes, etc. etc. etc.

I guess I'm not like everybody because I gave my Compaq away to clear up desk space just for my Power Mac after many headaches? I've been there, and I didn't like what I saw, so I am sticking with my Mac and OS X. I've got plenty of raw stable power to use to my advantage for all of my digital lifestyle tasks. Stability and easy of use, something that even an 80 GHz AMD running Windows 2000 or XP couldn't give me.

Give OS X a try. If you can't be happy with it, then give me your Power Book. I'm sure I'll find a way to "force" myself to enjoy it :D

Then you can go build a Windows 2000 AMD 80 GHz Hammerhead DDR supersystem and tweak your registry and hardware 'til your heat is content, and you won't have to come back here and spew flamebait at us. You can use Windows Addict Message Boards for that! :p
 
Please georgelien, just move to Windows already! We are all going to be much happier when you do.

Oh, and why do you need to clean off your system and reinstall Mac OS X? The last clean install I did on my system was when I got a new hard drive (that was back with the Public Beta), and I'm still going strong just updating it. Really sounds like the primary problem is you. And the best fix would be Windows!

See ya!

:D
 
I've been sticking with this thread on the off chance that someone might make a valid point on georgelien's side of the fence. I guess I am waiting in vain.

So I'm completely done with this thread. Ciao!
 
Originally posted by nkuvu
I've been sticking with this thread on the off chance that someone might make a valid point on georgelien's side of the fence. I guess I am waiting in vain.

So I'm completely done with this thread. Ciao!
Click to expand...

georgelien does have some valid concerns, but he/she's expressing it in a way to purpously cause flaming to happen. Just look at the quotes he has said and the original subject title.. That's not a good way to get your point across and have somebody take you seriously.

The issues expressed have been covered in many other topics. Apple knows there are some issues and bugs, but I'm more than postitive they plan on taking care of it in future releases. Flaming and trying to piss off an entire board will not help Apple work any faster. Sending them positive feedback on their feedback page will.
 
I (an avid Mac fan and 100% OS X user) still support the general tone of georgelien's message, which is that in some areas OS X is unacceptably slow. I'm disappointed by the thorough knee-jerk bashing he has received, but hey, we're an emotional bunch aren't we!

Here's a new and improved method of communicating my point. While totally subjective, it still has an inherent relativity that indicates my point.

I am rating all the apps I use based on two measures of speed, 1)graphics layer (windows resize, grabber hand moving, scaling, etc.) and 2)processing (rendering, calculating, filters, effects, etc.). Keep in mind, these are somewhat subjective and all in OS X using a DP G4 1 Gig with 1 Gig RAM, which is the entire point, of course. Unfortunately, I don't have a Windows machine to also rate. That would be the ultimate test.

I'd be curious to see what ratings other people might indicate on similar or different machines. 10=fastest imaginable speed (given today's technology), 1=slowest. All ratings are based on using a fairly demanding file or project, since any app can handle small files well.

I.E. 5.1.4
Graphics=3
Processing=7

Acrobat 5 & Acrobat Reader
Graphics=4
Processing=7

After Effects 5.5
Graphics=8
Processing=8

GoLive 6
Graphics=9
Processing=9

Illustrator 10
Graphics=4
Processing=8

InDesign 2
Graphics=4
Processing=8

LiveMotion 2
Graphics=8
Processing=8

Photoshop 7
Graphics=7
Processing=9

Suitcase 10.1.2
Graphics=7
Processing=8

Final Cut Pro 3
Graphics=8
Processing=7

Office v.X(all Apps)
Graphics=7
Processing=9

AccountEdge
Graphics=4
Processing=8

OmniWeb 4.1
Graphics=3
Processing=7

Mozilla 1.0.0
Graphics=4
Processing=8

Peak DV 3
Graphics=8
Processing=8

ToonBoom Studio
Graphics=3
Processing=8

Quicken
Graphics=8
Processing=9

Toast 5.1.3
Graphics=9
Processing=9

Giants (game)
Graphics=8
Processing=8

Admittedly, there many apps that perform just fine, if not exceptionally. More than I had realized. However, I make my living on the apps that are the worst performers (Indesign, Illustrator) and spend a lot of time on the internet, thus the continued rant on the speed thing.

As for web browsers, they all perform virtually identically for me, which is to say they load pages plenty fast (cable modem) and render on resize painfully slow. That Wired article has some faulty logic in it somewhere. The weird part, and this shows how I don't understand programming for graphics (or anything else for that matter) is that they all [browsers for X] scroll glass smooth, so you (I) wouldn't think resizing the window would kill it so much.
 
by mindbend
I (an avid Mac fan and 100% OS X user) still support the general tone of georgelien's message...
Click to expand...

His general tone is that Windows is better, that it has been since 1996, and he has been waiting for something better than the Mac OS since 1995. I just think he is taking six years too long to make the move.

He has made two threads like this one and not taken part in constructive threads on the subject. We have an Opinion: Reviews & Open Letters section for angry consumers to vent in, let him go there (though I still only see Windows as a true solution to his problems).

Ah... what where you saying about supporting his general tone again?
 
Is it me, or have we had millions of threads ranting and raving about how OS X/Mac's suck a whole lot, and that everybody should switch over to Windoze?

I think the moderators have been taking a bit too much time off of closing some threads, and they really need to be closing a bunch, like this one. These kinds of arguments don't go ANYWHERE at all because a bunch of people scream and shout that their right, end of story. Other people try to lay out constructive arguments and points, but the people screaming and shouting don't want to listen. What's the point?

twyg, maybe you wanna read this? :p

georgelien, I just hope that when reinstalling OS X, you get a much better experience.

Please close this thread! :(
 
What's this close the thread request? Why? What's the point of even having stupid boards like this, which are entirely based on heresay, conjecture, opinions, gossip, subjectivity, emotional responses and other nonsense (mine included)? I mean, the freaking title is "Mac Rumors & Discussion" not "Hitlerian Dogma about Macs". Sheesh.

The thread will close itself when nobody responds. Until then, it's a perfectly legitimate place for people to share ideas and debate things, even if it is for the millionth time. That's the fun of it, for me anyway. So now all of a sudden, because one guy doesn't like something we have to shut it down. Sounds like an old German philosophy. ;)

As for georgelien's tone, he has stated some very logical, reasonable points that I agree with, even if I don't like the reality. In fact, I just read every word of each of georgelien's posts, and found for the most part his points to be about Windows' superior speed in many areas, not so much that it was a better OS. I also found a lot of wording from georgelien about his support for Macs, the technology and the interface and applications, but everyone seems to conveniently ignore those comments because he properly blasted our precious OS in its achille's heel.

Why the heck am I defending georgelien? Because as Mac users, we have a long history of blind faith (myself at the top of the list) and when someone comes along with a legitimate argument, we take it way too hard. If I can speak for g and myself one more time, I think we and many others are on the same page, just using different words to say that OS X is wonderful in most every way except for some speed issues, which should be and probably will be resolved sooner than later.

Someone wondered about those of us who "do our part" to maintain the computer. None of those things help one single bit with my only remaining OS X complaint, which (all at once now) is the graphics layer speed issue. InDesign does not run faster when I optimize my Mac, though it does launch a tiny bit faster and maybe pulls in linked files a wee bit faster and such, but definitely does not scroll faster, scale faster, page render faster, apply effects faster etc. which is where I need the speed.
 
mindbend,

Thank you! At least somebody knows how to read and think.

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As for closing this thread, I agree that the slowness of Mac OS X is no "news," nor is many ex-Mac user switching to Windozs, but I never expected the new bread of the Mac OS users can be so closeminded.

If you don't like this thread, you don't have to come back. This is the Internet, a place where everyone can voice his or her opinion. I'm a guy by the way.

I sure hope people at Apple don't think the way many of you do, because your thinking almost caused Apple to go out of business in the late 90s.

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ksuther,

Thanks! I too wish to have a better experience this time. However, this will be my fifth time. I won't expect much until 10.2.
 
I have upgraded five Macs to OS X. We still sometimes switch back to OS 9 for compatibility with old applications or (in my case) recording with Coaster and Applescript.

It is true that some aspects of the GUI are slower than OS 9 but they also behave differently. The live updates and text rendering are worth the slight speed penalty (IMHO). Many other parts of OS X are much faster than OS 9. It is well documented, for instance, that transferring files via a network is much faster with OS X.

One of the truly wonderful aspects of OS X is the industrial strength multitasking. I can simultaneously burn a data CD, encode an MP3 in iTunes, surf the web and have several helper applications open in the background. I have had only one instance of the system freezing up and that was in October last year. We have had similar experiences on the other Macs. They have not been totally trouble free but compared to OS 9 this is a God-send.

OS X is not perfect. Any one using it several hours a day on a daily basis could come up with a list of things they would like to see improved (open and save dialogs for instance), however, the short summary is that OS X is very, very good now and only destined to get better.

Maybe we are too used to instant gratification to appreciate what Apple is doing. A year ago when 10.0.4 came out it worked but still had huge shortcomings. 10.1.0 was a huge leap forward and each of the updates since have brought welcome improvements. I can compare that with products I have seen from other companies that have not changed at all or gotten worse in the same period. I wish that my own companies products could have improved as much in the same time frame. I'd be in fat city.

One last comment on speed. Many of the critics of OS X and Apple compare it with the 2+GHz products from the wintel crowd. The thing is not many people buy those kinds of machines. There are still tons of 866MHz P-III computers being sold. The leading edge is fun to talk about but the bulk of the market looks for a balance between speed, reliability, value, ease of use and such.
 
i absolutelyagree that closing threads is ridiculous. if people are tired of the subject then don't read it. life is full of choices - make one.:D

now back to my constant point, you guys (mindbend and george) keep harping on the the way specific apps run and then blaming the whole os. How do you reason that? Just seems like the developers need to take the effort to improve the software.

I am not a graphic pro and don't use the programs you gripe about so i have no way to know what you are experiencing. But surely if this is app specific, shouldn't the first shot fired be at the software developer?

Now, i am not saying that osx can't be improved. I am sure they will find ways to make it easier for developers to speed up their apps. Plenty of the big companies are waiting for apple to do something that would make their job easier before they even try to fix their issues. case in point - I have an adesso intellimedia pro keyboard. Adesso has yet to release osx drivers for it that bring back its button functions. they continuely blame apple for not including some kernal extension or something. yet a small independent developer who just happens to have one of their keyboards and wants it to work has written drivers for it that provide function to 9 of the 22 keys. couldn't adesso have at least done this much on their own while waiting? my guess is they could do more than that since they have all the code they need. they just don't want to make the effort sonce they keep believing it will be easier with the next update.

Adobe has not been up to speed with osx with any of their apps. they have been ridiculousy slow in developing them and they are consistently slow upon release. The problems with their osx products are theirs, not Apple's. And if you have been relying upon Adobe products to make yur living, then perhaps it is time you looked for alternatives. Like m$, they do this because we let them by thinking they are the only game in town.

mindbend - it is good to know that you have been making the effort to optimize. and it is good to see you admit that optimization will improve some aspects of the systems and/or apps functioning. I can appreciate that it might not bring enough gain to large tasks to make a perceptual difference. I still believe things do get worse if you don't do these things in either os.
 
Aaaagh, once again I have to defend myself.

The posts immediately preceding my "close this thread" request were not indicative of a healthy debate as these last few have been. Sorry for the presumption.

Now I'm really, truly, actually going to stop posting here, since I just keep making an ass of myself. :eek:

-the valrus
 
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