Apple - Part II

[georgelien]

You can read the original "Apple sucks" thread here: http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8969&highlight=George+Lien
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As I've mentioned before, I have been a Mac user for over a decade. Recently bought a used Beige G3 Power Macintosh so I can upgrade to a G4/500 desktop machine.

The following is what I have invested in the past decade:

PowerBook 140 (sold - first year in college)
Centris Forgot-what-speed (sold - first year in college)
Power Macintosh 7200/75 (sold - forth year in college)
Power Macintosh 8500/120 (sold - forth year in college)
Power Macintosh 8600/200 (Family Computer in Taiwan)
PowerBook 2400/180
Power Macintosh 8600/300
333Hz Strawberry iMac (sold in 2001)
PowerBook G4/500
Power Macintosh G3/233

Perhaps it is not Apple that suck, but it's Mac OS X.
A year after OS X came out, the OS is still slow when compared to OS 9. "Everything is CPU intensive in OS X" but Apple is still playing around with only 1GHz G4 while AMD and Intel are passing 2GHz?

Don't get me wrong. I love OS X's user interface. I love iMovie, iPhoto as well as iTune. I love my PowerBook G4 along with all of my Power Macintoshes as well as my PowerBook 2400.

But come on! OS X is too slow!

As a long time Mac user and a PC user who builds his own PCs--no, I'm not talking about Wintel PCs--more like Windows 2000 and AMD chips, I'll have none of this!

Originally, I planned to buy a new Mac one generation after G4 reaches 1GHz, so in theory should be the next generation G4 desktops. But now I doubt I will make my purchase.

Not until Apple does something to OS X.

For crying out loud, I own two copies of the slowest OS, one Taiwan localized (10.0.3) and one International English (10.1)!

And yes, Windows is kicking our aZZ--Microsoft's Windows 2000 is killing OS X's aZZ!!

Wake up Apple! before you lose another faithful like me!

 

[googolplex]

I wouldn't say it is killing us. Its the other way around. Sometimes I don't understand these speed rants. It can be faster, but really what are you using it for that is SO SLOW? Sometimes things are sluggish, but I don't see it as the huge issue others seem to. And it can only go up from here.

 

[dricci]

I don't know if this should be marked as troll or redundant

MAC IS DIEENG OMG JUMP SHIP N BY A SUNY VAEO WITH THE GOOD WINDOW NT XP 2000 BE4 IT 2 LATE!

 

[georgelien]

Try switching between the two OS. OS 9 runs a lot faster than OS X.

 

[dricci]

OS 9 also crashes more than OS X, does that mean it's better?

You like 9? Use it, be happy. Don't like it? Live with OS X (which is a growing OS, unlike windows which the only thing that grows is the amount of viruses and security patches) or go buy a good ol Windows machine and STFU

Join my secret underground organization called Troll Busters!

 

[serpicolugnut]

.

Wake up Apple! before you lose another faithful like me!

You call yourself "faithful"? Please. You are about as faithful to Apple as UBL is to Islam. Apple really doesn't need your faith anyway. They are a company, not a religion.

You're complaining because Apple's LATEST OS won't run on your Mac that's 4 years old. Get a grip, and buy a new machine.

Think your argument is valid?

Go buy a PC from 1998 - let's say a PII-350. Try running WinXP on that machine, and then we'll talk.

Apple can't be expected to deliver next gen software features on 3 generation old hardware. If I were Apple, I would have made the Beige G3's unsupported, and started OS X's minimum requirements at the B&WG3's, and the 2nd generation iMacs. There comes a point in the hardware/software development where an evolution is required. That evolution will dictate their either the 1) the hardware will be more advanced than the software, or 2) the software will be more advanced than the hardware. OS 9 has been around (in various versions) for 18 years. OS X significantly shorter (NeXT, BSD don't count because core technologies like Quartz, Aqua, Carobn were not part of those OS's). Right now, OS X is more advanced than *most* of the hardware. This is what happens when there is a revolution with the software.

With that explained, others have said it well - if you don't like OS X (or don't have the $$$ to buy a machine capable of running if fast) - THEN DON'T USE IT. OS 9 works OK, so long as you save every 2 minutes and don't mind restarting a couple of times a day.

 

[fryke]

Have to agree with others. You're not an Apple faithful. Or as much as G.W. Bush is a faithful Christian.

I've recently erased my Classic partition and haven't regretted it yet. Mac OS X is the future of the Macintosh, they say, I say it's the present.

 

[georgelien]

I didn't want OS X to run on G3 or Mac pre-G3. I'm happy to have it run just on G4 machines. But it is slow--people--face the fact! I do respect the perspective on the slow-but-with-less-crashes. Still, even if you don't compare with OS 9, Mac OS X is way too slow when compared to Windows 2000.

Well, about the viruses and security...
If Mac OS owned 90% of the computer market, most viruses in world would have been written for it. How can one be sure that there are no holes in OS X. They found problems with Linux after the OpenSource claim the OS to be the safest and the most robust, didn't they?

Let's face it guys, Macs suck at the current state.
Only when we first admit to our short comings can we improve ourselves and progress.

Like I was back in the late 90s, I still only want Macs to get better!

BTW, thanks for flaming to your kind.

 

[phatsharpie]

I have to admit that I never used OS 9 until last night, when I was reformating my iBook for its buyer (I am planning to upgrade to a PBG4). I bought the iBook to play with OS X, to see if I want it to be my default OS. The ONLY reason I bought a Mac was for OS X - and I know plenty of people who do so. It's pretty much the only weapon Apple has to woo the technically elite. When I used OS 9 last night, I was impressed by its speed - really impressed. I had no idea the G3 processor was so powerful! However, in one hour, I crashed 3 times!!! Maybe IE is just a bad browser (I wouldn't be surprised), but if browsing the web can crash an OS 3 times in a hour, it's not the OS for me. I did a full system restore, I installed nothing new, it's a clean system, and it was UNSTABLE!

Sure, OS X is slower than OS 9, but I actually get more done! I just keep running processing in the background. I open new browser tabs in Mozilla while other ones are still loading. Try that is OS 9 - I guarantee you'll hang or crash.

OS X is still evolving. If you don't want to be on the cutting edge - don't. Apple still supports OS 9. Stick with it if you want, but I am sticking with OS X.

-B

 

[georgelien]

BTW, I'm not a Mac faithful? How many Macintoshes do you have? Apple is a company, but Mac is a cult. We who use Mac OS believe that computing should be fun and creative. So far the thread only reflects how users only use what's thrown at them by the computer companies--just like people use Windows XP because Microsoft says so--I guess Mac users now use OS X because Apple says so.

<Signs> Anyway, I bought my PowerBook G4/500 because I wanted to run OS X. So far this 6-month-experiment of using it as my only OS has been disappointing.

But--the good news is--the poll will probably make me eat my words.

Cheers!

I love my Macs. Just waiting for OS X to become more responsive.

BTW, read this: http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,51926,00.html
I'm NOT the only one out there.

 

[dricci]

But it is slow--people--face the fact!

The GUI may be a little sluggish, but that'll be improved in upcomming releases. The underlying core is plenty fast.

Still, even if you don't compare with OS 9, Mac OS X is way too slow when compared to Windows 2000.

Then why are you here? Go buy a machine with Windows 2000 and be happy.

If Mac OS owned 90% of the computer market, most viruses in world would have been written for it.

But there's no illegally embeded software for the viruses to latch on to, so spreading would be much difficult. Any virus using top quality Microsoft proprietary standards can figure out a way to latch on to outlook's address book.

How can one be sure that there are no holes in OS X.

Well, it's open source, so that'll target the main ones. And it's based on the same FreeBSD that runs high-end servers, so that takes out a lot, too.

They found problems with Linux after the OpenSource claim the OS to be the safest and the most robust, didn't they?

As far as I know, Linus Torvalds nor The Open Group never said Linux was the safest. I'd say OpenBSD is probably the safest of them all, with FreeBSD being a close second. It, and just about every other opensource unix is safer than any version of Windows out there today.

Let's face it guys, Macs suck at the current state.

Well, if that's how you feel. None of mine do, and none of the ones I've seen suck. So maybe you're looking at one that nobody outside of Apple has ever seen?

Only when we first admit to our short comings can we improve ourselves and progress.

There are many short comings in OS X, and that's what the feedback page is for. We have a problem or idea, we go there and report it, and if it's popular enough (or humanly possible), it'll get in the next release.

BTW, thanks for flaming to your kind.

Sorry, redundant trolls aren't my kind.

 

[rliebsch]

Really, Funny, my PowerBook (G3 Pizmo 256MB RAM),

Runs OS X running smoothly, Explorer, a few network and application monitoring apps, NMap, MacSniffer, Ymessenger, AIM, iTunes, and Terminal...

but wait, theres more....

At the very same time, it runs XDarwin with WinowMaker with
12 virutal desktops, 5 rdesktops, 12 eterms, dillo, amaya, tcpdump, nmapfe, ethereal, 4 Wmaker Dock Apps, 2 Xchats,
and a Pico.

All together. At the same time. Functioning. Smoothly.
Now, this week I had to load MS Office so I could work on my
documentation and spreadsheets. Now it is pokey sometimes, but honestly, I blame office.

So, for the record G3 Pismo running OSX, XDarwin and WindowMaker. Beautiful.

My guess is you are doing it wrong.

 

[nkuvu]

I guess Mac users now use OS X because Apple says so.

Uh, no, actually I use OS X because I like it. I like its stability, I like the command line, I like the GUI, I like the Dock, I like the fact that it's based on one of the best operating systems in the world (Unix) but it is still very user friendly, I like that one application crashing doesn't bring the whole darn system to its knees, I like....

I could go on, but I really don't see the point. I am more than willing to work with a slow but stable OS. I've worked on Windows for the past seven years. Faster? I don't think so. Buggier? You bet.

The other thing I like about Apple/Unix/Open Source in general: Someone says "Hey look! We found a security hole!" and the general response is to patch it asap.

Microsoft's response? "No, that's not really a security hole. I mean, it's possible that someone could run arbitrary code on your machine, but it's not likely. Who ever clicks "Back" in Internet Explorer, anyway? We're not going to fix it."

We who use Mac OS believe that computing should be fun and creative.

Hmm. I use it because it is fun and creative and stable.

 

[georgelien]

FYI,

these are the PCs I built running Windows 2000:

In year 2002

1)
AMD 1.33 GHz Athlon
256MB DDR RAM
15GB ATA 100 Hard Drive
32MB TNT Video card
ASUS K7V-266E Motherboard
D-Link 530 10/100 Ethernet card
Windows 2000 Professional

Total: less than $700

2)
AMD 1 GHz Athlon
256MB DDR RAM
15GB ATA 100 Hard Drive
32MB TNT Video card
ASUS K7V-266E Motherboard
D-Link 530 10/100 Ethernet card
Windows 2000 Professional

Total: less than $700


In year 2000

1)
AMD 600MHz Duron
128MB PC133 SDRAM
15GB ATA 100 Hard Drive
32MB TNT Video card
ASUS K7V Motherboard
D-Link 530 10/100 Ethernet card
Windows 2000 Professional

Total: less than $600

2)
AMD 600MHz Duron
128MB PC133 SDRAM
15GB ATA 100 Hard Drive
32MB TNT Video card
ASUS K7V Motherboard
D-Link 530 10/100 Ethernet card
Windows 2000 Professional

Total: less than $600

3)
Intel 450MHz Pentium II
128MB PC100 SDRAM
2x 30GB ATA 100 Hard Drive
8MB ATI Video card
Intel SE440BX Motherboard
D-Link 530 10/100 Ethernet card
Windows 2000 Server

Total: less than $900

 

[rliebsch]

oh, well that settles it...

You think OSX is insecure?

Proof positive, you have not RTFM.
READ THE FRIGGIN MANUAL.

Security is the same as international, and personal security,
it is discipline, it is reading, it is configuration.

It is really really really brainnumbingly easy to configure your computer so it is secure. And guess what, most of it is alreasdy done for you.

Course, when you install spyware, its yer own fault....

Go buy a windows box and whine.

 

[dricci]

And you're telling us this..because..?

Why are you here? Go have fun with Windows 2000 on all of your amazing machines instead of bothering us. I could really care less what you build or what you think of OS X. Your main intent with this post is to start a war, not offer positive feedback or ask for help.

 

[georgelien]

Now I know how PC people feel when talking to us Mac people. We're blind.

BTW, I don't buy a Win Box. I build one. When was the last time you built a computer?

 

[nkuvu]

Hmm. My x86 machine:
Intel Celeron 300A processor
320 MB PC133 RAM (I forget if it's SDRAM or not)
20 GB 7200 rpm Maxtor HD
Windows 2000 Professional
Supermicro PS680A motherboard (or something -- its been a while)
Plextor 8/4/32 CD-RW
Toshiba 54x CD-Rom

Total monetary cost: I have no idea -- not all built at the same time. The CPU, motherboard and RAM came to $600 alone. The CD-RW was $100 or so, the HD was another $120, so at least $820. That isn't including video card, modem, ethernet card, case, monitor, keyboard, mouse, CD-Rom.

Total cost in time: Seven years of crashes, lost data, reinstallation of the operating system, BSODs immediately after reinstalling the operating system on a clean HD, more lost data (those two words really underplay the agony of losing four years of programming assignments).

If you are so excited about Windows, why are you even here?

 

[dricci]

Dude, wtf are you talking about? I could care less if you know how to plug parts into a motherboard and install Windows 2000.

"Us Mac People" ? Uh, you don't sound like any of the Mac people I know. You do sound like a few slashdot trolls, though.

I'm not blind, I am aware of all of my options, that's why I use a Mac.

Hurry now, the troll train is about to depart! Don't be late!

 

[nkuvu]

Originally posted by georgelien
Now I know how PC people feel when talking to us Mac people. We're blind.

BTW, I don't buy a Win Box. I build one. When was the last time you built a computer?

I've never done anything else. Don't you even dare consider me a "mindless Windows/Mac user". I have experience with Windows, DOS, four different flavors of Unix, and Macintosh. Each x86 box was something that I built alone, installed the OS, and configured it to my liking.