Can Apple Give a Straight Answer?
- Thread starter Amie
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nixgeek
Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
You're probably right, but when you have to access it remotely it becomes a problem. I access my Mac remotely often so it's not an option for me. I just have it go into a sleep mode and wake on network activity.
bbloke
Registered
This may well be true. The counterargument I hear is that if you use your computer a lot, frequent startups and shutdowns (instead of leaving it on) will add to wear and tear on the components, particularly hard drives. It is not easy to make a factual comparison between the energy required to produce components and the energy required to simply leave components running all the time, with an added estimation of how the wear and tear varies in either case!
It's a bit like leaving a car idling versus switching it off, in terms of energy rather than wear and tear in this case. Starting a car up requires more energy than to simply keep it running once started. I'm sure there is a cross-over, though, and there is a point where leaving it idling for a long period consumes more energy than if it had been switched off for the same period (and therefore needs starting again). Where that cross-over is, I don't know, though...
I can easily believe that we should be more conscientious about our consumption of materials and our usage of energy. I admit there are plenty of areas where I could be doing a lot more than I am... At the same time, I genuinely don't know who's right when it comes to the sorts of issues mentioned above, as I have not seen any figures to support either approach.
Actually, that's not a bad idea...
Rhisiart
Registered
If every computer user in the western world turned their computers off at night, we could probably reverse global warming by 0.00000000000000000000000000001%.
If the USA and emerging global competitors (i.e. Brazil, China and India) cut carbon emissions by 20% over the next ten years, we could reverse global warming by 57%.
A few days ago on the Nature of Things they said if the entire world used as much energy as Canada we'd need 5 planets to sustain us.
Qion
Uber Nothing
We could already use a few more.
I would take those kinds of statements with a large grain of salt; humans use too much, we know this. I believe that we can either learn to invent a perfect energy source and a means to escape our exploding sun in 5bn years, or we can accept the fact that we will all die eventually. I try to be conservative, but usually I cannot philosophically justify being anal-retentive.
CaribbeanOS-X
Tropics Tech
The earth will make its correction, when we push the envelope too far, count on that.
bbloke
Registered
Fair enough. It doesn't quite answer my question, though. Most computer magazines and sites seem to sit on the fence and just say there are two approaches, and it is up to the reader to decide.
I've been doing a little bit of looking around last night and this morning, and I found a few sites that mention the issue. There's still quite a mixture of opinions, but it looks like more people might be advocating switching off now. Some are saying that computer components have been improved enough over the years that we need not worry about the wear and tear anymore. Three of the links I came across:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/comp99/CS063.htm
http://environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article2828961.ece
http://www.rfuz.com/hardware/hardwa...our-off-your-pc-overnight-or-let-it-run-.html
Also, I want to ensure there is no misunderstanding. I'm certainly not saying we should ignore environmental concerns (!), that I don't believe in issues like global warming, or the like. I'm only meaning that I've been unsure which method is the most environmentally friendly overall and have tended to stick with leaving things on, partly based on experience of other equipment that is more prone to failure when switched off and on frequently...
Or we could wait 20 years or so for the global warming fad to die out and they'll bring back global cooling like we had in the 1970s.
Qion
Uber Nothing
There have been at least four major ice ages in our planet's history. Attempting to control global temperature could potentially have a more devastating effect than cautiously going about our lives... again, there's no reason to be anal-retentive. As long as the majority remains fairly smart about recycling, driving, ecetera, we're just as well off as jumping on the global warming boat so hard that we fall into the opposite spectrum.
Not very Green of you...7 MAC's on fulltime at $35 a month EACH in direct and indirect energy costs per month (when they're plugged in).
There's a good reason to shut down every night.
William Hazen
Very Weak argument and not factual in the least. the reality is the majority of Global Warming Gases are Methane from domesticated farm animals like cattle and pigs, so if you stopped eating MEAT you would cut down these gases by over 75%!!! And... thats not to mention the indirect savings since most of the Western World's Meat is factory farmed and requires huge amount of grain and oil in order for folks to have that big old steak or fried chicken dinner.
Also Western, Asian and Latin energy demands have increased 3 fold since the dawn of the consumer MAC/PC age and a huge majority of coal production , coal emmisions, acid rain ect ect is to support the worlds electrical power grids.
You folks better get your facts straight when it comes to responsible use of your MAC's. Personally I always assumed we MAC folks we're an ethical and socially aware bunch of folks... Some of the posts I see on this thread are causing me to have a little doubt about that.
Shutting down your computer and responsible MAC use may not mean much to you, but your kids will thank you for it.
William Hazen
karavite
Registered
Right on Bill! Nothing like the facts to spoil an argument. Ever drive through Iowa and Nebraska? I have many times. For hundreds of miles the air smells like animal poop. Realize how much gas it takes to make that much area smell and you can understand, in a more practical first hand way, how meat production contributes to methane and other greenhouse gases. And what is it all for? So we can eat tons of meat, have high cholesterol and spend trillions on health care for heart disease (and do a lousy inefficient job of it at that). What a mad mad world it is.
Ferdinand
V. Tech
Shutting down your computer and responsible MAC use may not mean much to you, but your kids will thank you for it.
William Hazen
So true.
This is the article I am beginning to direct people in the West to who start being preachy about being eco friendly and such. You hate being affluent? Then swap with us. I grew up in the third world, and moved away for university and never really looked back. People who argue about the emerging economies of China and Latin America and how that will affect the environment are arguing against the modernization of these areas.
Here's a better solution. Don't stop progress in the West. Swap your citizenship with someone in the third world. This is a win-win situation. You guys get to live your eco friendly lifestyle, where we don't own cars, plant our own vegetables, don't have factory farms (nasty nasty methane. Oh no), eat mainly plant products, conserve water in creative ways, etc. On the other hand, the third worlder will get to enjoy the trappings of the modern lifestyle.
Sounds harsh? Yup, it is. It just truly annoys me where people who are born and raised in the affluence of the West try to keep back the development of other countries by invoking eco "issues" and also seek to modern amenities because they are deemed non eco friendly.
Here's a better solution. Don't stop progress in the West. Swap your citizenship with someone in the third world. This is a win-win situation. You guys get to live your eco friendly lifestyle, where we don't own cars, plant our own vegetables, don't have factory farms (nasty nasty methane. Oh no), eat mainly plant products, conserve water in creative ways, etc. On the other hand, the third worlder will get to enjoy the trappings of the modern lifestyle.
Sounds harsh? Yup, it is. It just truly annoys me where people who are born and raised in the affluence of the West try to keep back the development of other countries by invoking eco "issues" and also seek to modern amenities because they are deemed non eco friendly.
Satcomer
In Geostationary Orbit
Exactly! What a lot of people can't get there head around that the "eco" community is just a bunch of racists. Yes, I just said that. To me it seems most "eco" promoters seem to want to keep third world peoples down.
Racists? Just a tired old Meme...That would be like saying all third worlders are greedy and corrupt...
China is destroying it's ecology to catch up with the West So are other parts of the third world.
Cutting off your nose and calling it an improvement to your face is not the answer either...
William Hazen
China is destroying it's ecology to catch up with the West So are other parts of the third world.
Cutting off your nose and calling it an improvement to your face is not the answer either...
William Hazen
Amie
Mac Convert for Life
Hmm, I don't know... The first link sounds like it's talking about desktops, not laptops (which is what my OP was referring to). The first article says: "...But, moving components, like the fans, will tend to wear out the more they are left on. ..." Fans? I don't know about you all, but my iBook's fan doesn't run while in Sleep mode. (Or does it? If it does, then I had no idea.) I don't hear/feel anything while it's sleeping. I thought Sleep was basically like being off. HDs stop spinning, lights go out, fans stop, etc.? Or am I way off here???
The second one is referring to offices that are overloaded with computers and use mass amounts of energy every day. In an office environment, with multiple computers, then yes, I would agree, shutting down is best. Which I do at work. But my personal laptop? I usually just sleep it. I shut down or reboot once a week as a rule of thumb, just to give it a fresh boot, but other than that it's sleeping.
The third link is referring to PCs (it says so in the article). There seems to be a difference in Sleep in PCs vs. Macs. The difference being: Apple's Sleep mode seems to actually work.