Ding-Dong the Witch is dead!! IE no more!

All these posts i see from people saying "Oh no, we've lost IE, and people don't code for Safari..."

While it seems blatantly obvious to some, (X)HTML/CSS is actually SUPPOSED to work in any browser. And while everyone says "I can't use safari for <insert random site here>", since safari was released, i have used nothing but safari, with the exception of when im checking my css/html compatibility. Sure, on rumortracker.com the little menu things at the top dont work properly. 99.99998% of websites have a contact email address on them. write to them and tell them that it goes screwy in safari. they might just do something about it.. And for those that do a User-Agent check telling you that you HAVE to use IE, you can use the Debug menu to tell safari what user-agent it should say it is.
Yes, it is nice to have the option to use IE there. Not because it's IE, but because its an option, and as a famous guy called Steve said, "I like having options!"
But also, don't assume its the end of the world for Mac users everywhere.
 
For some sites it helps to change some settings (turn off pop-up blocking, or turn on accept all cookies). Since Safari got Tabs I'm using 90% of the time and have encountered no major problems with the sites I navigate to.
I haven't been using IE for years now, I used Chimera / Camino instead. Indeed for the 10% sites Safari screws up, I revert to Camino and everything is fine.
It's good to have options, and indeed we do have a lot of them on OS X: Mozilla, Phoenix, Camino, Safari, Opera, OmniWeb ... IE is no great loss.

Edit: And of course, Links, lynx, and all the other X11/Gnome/KDE/ browsers: Konqueror etc. :D
 
For some sites it helps to change some settings
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That's a bit of a pain. I don't want to remember what sites need what preferences. And I don't want to have enable things I don't on sites I'm new to.
That said, I only use IE on rare occassion these days. More so to clean out my hotmail folder even though I use Mail to get my hotmail stuff (as well as my .mac e-mail) since Safari still doesn't like the MSN sites much.

BUt it would be interesting to see if there'll be a Safari for Windows. There'll be a market for it after Windoze folks get all ga-ga over the Music Store when it ports over to them and they become more and more receptive to the Apple way.
 
Originally posted by Randman
BUt it would be interesting to see if there'll be a Safari for Windows. There'll be a market for it after Windoze folks get all ga-ga over the Music Store when it ports over to them and they become more and more receptive to the Apple way.
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Now that would be interesting. Maybe windows users will suddenly realise theres more to Macs than just jazzy adverts and pretty casings to the computers...

As for IE, I am a bit annoyed that they're not continuing it on. I use Safari loads, but I have admittedly been anticipating a release of IE6 for Mac. Only because I know that this will be the browser in which all pages can be viewed. Some times with Safari, im unsure if the site is showing itself fully, as some things might not work, and simply arn't shown.

But, as everyone else has been saying, if Apple goes on with their own stuff (iOffice, or iWorks whatever it'll be, and Safari etc...) then it simply wont need MS stuff.
I think it makes it more interesting havent them as far apart as possible. More fun rivalry!
 
There's no harm in a little overlap. :) I must've skipped that thread anyway. Glad to see great minds... blah blah. :D
 
I am puzzled that so many people in this thread have never experienced sites which will only work with IE. I can't use Safari for Internet banking because both of the banks I use have decided they will ONLy use IE. So Safari goes nowhere. And it isn't just banks. One of the UK's biggest online computer retailers, DABS won't let you log on unless you are using IE (though they don't admit it).

The recent decision of MS not to allow stand alone downloads of IE for PC users is a sinister development in my view. It means that IE will become the browser that is only available if you buy a Windows machine. As they have 95% of the market, and since many IT departments are too spineless to stand up to them, their constant wrecking of standards will eventually mean, that to use the internet, you need Windows.

I'm amazed people don't see this.
 
You can still get IE Mac, but you need to buy MSN Mac OS X, and if you live overseas I don't think MS provides Internet. So if you live in an area within the US where MSN provides service and you are willing to switch ISP's, go ahead! But MSIE 5 for Mac wasn't all a bad browser, it was the first browser to support a lot of new standards at the time it was released. It's development was sluggish though, and by the time Safari rolled around it was grossly under-adequate. I used it until I got Jaguar, a few weeks after MacWorld 2002, when Safari was released.
 
Originally posted by Pengu
All these posts i see from people saying "Oh no, we've lost IE, and people don't code for Safari..."

While it seems blatantly obvious to some, (X)HTML/CSS is actually SUPPOSED to work in any browser. And while everyone says "I can't use safari for <insert random site here>", since safari was released, i have used nothing but safari, with the exception of when im checking my css/html compatibility. Sure, on rumortracker.com the little menu things at the top dont work properly. 99.99998% of websites have a contact email address on them. write to them and tell them that it goes screwy in safari. they might just do something about it..
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I run into problems with Web sites using IE for Mac. I get messages that read, "This Web site requires Internet Explorer and Javascript to be turned on" or something like that.

If someone codes JavaScript to only run with certain Browsers, something you have to do in many cases to fix inconsistencies between different versions of IE and of course, Netscape, I will get an error code that I need to run a Browser that uses JavaScript. It's lazy programming and it is not going to change anytime soon. A lazy Web engineer might figure out how to get a Mac version of IE to run, but why would they even care about Safari?

Maybe that will change in 3 or 4 years, but for now, we will run into problems that honestly most Webmasters will not care to fix. The basic reason is that if they were doing their job the correct way in the first place, there would never be an issue about cross-browser compatability issues.
 
Originally posted by Myke
I can't use Safari for Internet banking because both of the banks I use have decided they will ONLy use IE. So Safari goes nowhere. And it isn't just banks. One of the UK's biggest online computer retailers, DABS won't let you log on unless you are using IE (though they don't admit it).
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I don't know what it is like in the UK, but where I live in Ohio I have a choice of at least a dozen different banks I could use. As things stand now I use a bank that I need to use Camino for, but I expect that when the full version of Safari comes out that will no longer be the case. If the bank's site were only accessible using IE I would have switched to a different bank long ago. As for retailers there are several that I have encountered that did not work with Safari, though they do work with Camino. With Safari being a beta browser I've been content to let things stand that way, but once it is out in full I will be writing letters to those retailers if their sites do not yet work with Safari. Regardless, though, there are many different options on the web, so I don't feel myself limited.

The recent decision of MS not to allow stand alone downloads of IE for PC users is a sinister development in my view. It means that IE will become the browser that is only available if you buy a Windows machine. As they have 95% of the market, and since many IT departments are too spineless to stand up to them, their constant wrecking of standards will eventually mean, that to use the internet, you need Windows.
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I think you're really over-reacting here. For some time now I've been reading lots of stories about businesses, non-profits and even local governments switching away from MS Office to free alternatives. On top of that the alternative browser market seems to me to be stronger than ever. Yes, Netscape has not made any great come back, but Mozilla (and its many derivatives) and Opera are going stronger than ever. And of course on the Mac side of the fence there are even more credible alternatives. We Mac users may be a minority, and a small one at that, but we are a very vocal and very persistent minority that has more clout than our numbers would seem to indicate.

So do your part and when you see a site that does not support Macs or other browsers let them know about it. Send them a detailed letter (snail mail if you can, but email otherwise) and let them know in detail what problems you encountered and ending with the fact you know they will be eager to correct the problem. If they reply in the negative hint to them that it seems unwise to exclude themselves from any market. If they persist or blow you off then let them know that you will be taking your business elsewhere. In the case of a retailer you might even consider keeping them apprised of the money you spend with their competitors so that they can see what effect their decision is having. In the case of a bank sit down with the branch manager/president and inform them that you will be closing your account and why. Make sure that they realize IT's decision has lost them your account and may lose them others.

Just my thoughts...
 
Originally posted by gwynarion
We Mac users may be a minority, and a small one at that, but we are a very vocal and very persistent minority that has more clout than our numbers would seem to indicate.
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Great, we're either black or Jewish! :D (No offense to any black people or any other Jews besides me who use this board, of course.)

Let's utilize our chutzpah to make our minds known.
 
As they have 95% of the market, and since many IT departments are too spineless to stand up to them, their constant wrecking of standards will eventually mean, that to use the internet, you need Windows.
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But of course you need Windows for the internet! Bill Gates/Microsoft CREATED the internet, remember. Just before Apple went bankrupt because everyone realised that "you can't do anything on a Mac".

I run into problems with Web sites using IE for Mac. I get messages that read, "This Web site requires Internet Explorer and Javascript to be turned on" or something like that.
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Try setting your user-agent to MSIE for Windows in the Debug -> User Agent menu of Safari, and try the sites again.
 
Originally posted by Evil Ryu
Just us lot on the macosx forums? Yeah, I reckon we can do it :)

Where to start?
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Easiest place really, with "myself"... or is that the hardest place... :p :D ;)
 
Pengu,

Where is this debug/user agent menu or are you just kidding.

Also ...changing banks may be a doddle in the US but here its a nightmare. Plus I like my bank, actually, apart from its fondness for MS!

By the way, Mr K, i'm not overseas - you are!
 
I just went to filemakerpro.com to purchase some software. I couldn't because there was a warning message that says,
The FileMaker Store does not support Safari Beta.
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This is a company that is owned by Apple and it doesn't support Safari.

You can still navigate the site, but if this site doesn't work well with Safari, exactly how do you expect the rest of the world to support it?

Oh and trust me, I want the rest of the world to support it.
 
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