EVERYONE on this planet should read this!

When the founding fathers wrote the constitution they didn't deal with slavery although even then it was becoming an issue. They also allowed only males who owned property to vote, thereby negating the opinions of a MAJORITY of the population. The rights of Native Americans weren't even considered. Much less those of the buffalo, the carrier pigeon, and countless other plants, animals and ecosystems that were destroyed by the greed of the early citizens of the USA.

Why is it that your "nun" doesn't mention any of the above? Surely just because something once existed does not mean that it should be allowed to exist for all eternity. Even donkeys, in the natural course of things, are allowed to die of old age.
 
What I find the most interesting is the statement :: "This culture, called the "American Way" has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom."

Now she is saying that is what our country was founded on, but now don't continue in this. We are done and fully formed. No more struggling, trials for the things you believe in if they rock the boat.

Sorry. We are like Kenny said. From many. One. And that is a process that will be forever on going.

As for being PC. I agree to a point. We as a whole are afraid to speak our minds and rock the boat. But that is up to every individual to decide. Just like this nun has her opinion and expressed it, so does everyone here. That is what makes it exciting. I say speak your mind. If it makes people mad then that is something you and that person can deal with.

As for me, I will try to make everyone I love (no matter how different) feel at home. Even if we do not speak the same language.

Matthew
 
I refuse to leave America.

I demand a better America.
Click to expand...
Well said, BitWit!

Was it Voltaire said "I don't agree with a word you say, but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it?"

It speaks to the principles on which the USA was founded, but you don't see much of it in the words or actions of many "patriots".

PowermacG4_450, I accuse you, and the "nun" you quote (and for that matter, G. Bush, père et fils) of being anti-American, in the sense of being fundamentally opposed to the philosophy that underlies the founding of America.

I accuse you of being too reactionary to recognize efforts to promote, further, and develop the essential impulse for freedom at the heart of the American nation, blinded by the fact that many of the people making those efforts don't speak the right language, worship at the right temple, or drive the right car.

Now, will you defend yourself, or will you attack my right to accuse you?
 
Was it Voltaire said "I don't agree with a word you say, but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it?"

It speaks to the principles on which the USA was founded, but you don't see much of it in the words or actions of many "patriots".
Click to expand...

all too true. these days they just want to fight to the death for the sake of fighting. as far as i'm concerned these people have the right to die any way they choose, but they don't have the right to choose how others die. Borg mentality. but no doubt they would be rooting for Picard in the movie, while never realizing they are his enemy.
 
I think the biggest mistake America has made in recent years is pressuring Iraq to disarm in a way that forces Saddam to stand his ground.

In the Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy was wise enough to offer the soviets a way to back down and remove their weapons without losing face. He made it clear to them that if they did disarm it would be a token of peace and goodwill, and would be respected for it. The Soviets were able to take their missiles back without being shamed in the eyes of their people.

Bush's stand against Saddam Hussien makes it impossible for Iraq to disarm without losing credibility and the respect of its people and neighbours.

Just my two cents, which is the average daily salary for most of the world.
 
Worst of all, not attaking Iraq will now result in loss of credibility for Bush ... He (or at least his advisors) know this, and will try (as they have up to now) to begin a war, while many others still believe in a peaceful solution (supported by Germany, France, Russia & China).

I regret to say that it now seems just as if America is the biggest destabilizing factor in the Middle-East.
 
Cat Said:
"God Bless America and our Military and our Veterans!

I will not insult you by laughing, but know that I am deeply concerned about opinions like this. You definitely confirmed my worst prejudices about America, and I'm not happy about it..."

I have to disagree with your response, Cat. For the simple reason that not all of our military personnel signed up to go fight in a war. For many lower class people this is the best (if not the only) way to make something of themselves in this country. They go where there told or they will be courtmarshalled. This occurrence goes on permanent records of individuals in America and many employers won't hire you if you have a dishonorable discharge or a courtmarshal.

I support the individuals that make up our military, not their commanders.
 
Originally posted by symphonix
I think the biggest mistake America has made in recent years is pressuring Iraq to disarm in a way that forces Saddam to stand his ground.
Click to expand...
I would argue it was selling them to him in the first place (as well as Britain and probably most of western Europe as well).
 
Yeah, this goes back a long time, and nobody likes to hear how it all got started. (we practically invited them into Kuwait...oops)
 
Bush's stand against Saddam Hussien makes it impossible for Iraq to disarm without losing credibility and the respect of its people and neighbours.
Click to expand...

this sort of assumes that Bush has credibility to lose. i think that's a stretch and has been from the election fiasco onwards.

my own feeling is that Bush has read all the psychic predictions about the causes of the apocalypse and wants to be a part of it. (only half joking here :( )

but i have to agree with all who have said that the idea of "Americans" as some sort of unified body of thought and action is simply a naive and dangersous assumption on anybody's part - be they American or other nationality.

One World - One People - Different Cultures - All Individuals :)
 
mrfluffy: I tend to agree with you
Giaguara: Peace and love are indeed the only solution, and that is the most important!

I intensely detest one of the main ideas put forth in that document, PowermacG4_G450. It presents a contradiction: speak your mind, but if you don't like where you live, leave. The whole idea behind giving the population the right and freedom to speak one's mind is so that one can speak out again what you think is wrong.

I see absolutely no difference between telling someone to leave because they don't agree with the government's ideas, and imprisoning them. Both situations offer the same about of freedom: none!
 
I have to disagree with your response, Cat. For the simple reason that not all of our military personnel signed up to go fight in a war. For many lower class people this is the best (if not the only) way to make something of themselves in this country. They go where there told or they will be courtmarshalled. This occurrence goes on permanent records of individuals in America and many employers won't hire you if you have a dishonorable discharge or a courtmarshal.

I support the individuals that make up our military, not their commanders.
Click to expand...

You do have a point there, Kalantna. But it isn't a country I would like to live in, one where the only way to survive or make somewhat of a career would be to join the military... that is a very sad and bad situation.
I probably don't know enough about American society (and tax system, etc.), but if the country would spend less on military means and invest that money in providing a better education for a lower price to it's citizens, all would be served better. I am fully aware that this is quite an utopia, however, especially with the current president.
 
Originally posted by mrfluffy
I would argue it was selling them to him in the first place (as well as Britain and probably most of western Europe as well).
Click to expand...

That's absolutely correct. The Middle East was first destabilized by Britain (it was their common practice to create unstable national entities in order too keep strong opposition from developing). Iraq is an artificial creation of British imperialism. From early 20th century until the late 50s they successfully kept down the opposition and made sure they always had a puppet regime in power. In 1958 the Iraqi King was overthrown and executed by forces from within Iraq. The Brits were thrown out of the country. That's when they turned to the U.S., a cooperation that managed to throw the new government out of office in 1963. This went on and on until at one point Saddam Hussein emerged as Iraqi ruler. Soon after the whole Iran-Iraq issue started. I don't need to tell you who armed BOTH SIDES. So basically the U.S. and Britain now want to reclaim power over the vast oil resources and get Iraq to hand over weapons sold/given to Hussein by Reagan's U.S. and Thatcher's Britain.

OK, the whole story is more complicated than this but I just try to make a few points to explain why I and a lot more INFORMED and politically conscious people oppose Gulf War II.
 
Oh, and did you guys know that the nuclear reactors that Korea has activated ... the ones which Bush says are going to be used for making weapons ... were built for North Korea by the American government under Clinton?

You Americans really need to get back control of your government before they do more things to make you hated in the rest of the world. It's too easy to sit quietly while your elected representatives start wars in your name. At the very least, if you do oppose the war, write to your representative and attend a protest rally.

And the great news is, you CAN speak out against the war, and you DON'T have to leave, regardless of what a former nun says. If you are ashamed of what your government is doing, you're the only ones who can change it.
 
IIRC there is going to be public protest against the war in every major european capital on Saturday 15th of February. Of course, since Britain and America are the two main warmongers, it would make sense to organize something there. I know of a lot of people that are going to London for protest... If you believe in peace, then let your voice be heard!

---

If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are Saudi,
And your alibi is shoddy,
And your tastes remain quite gaudy,
Bomb Iraq.

If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think that SUVs,
Are the best thing since sliced cheese,
And your father you must please,
Bomb Iraq.

If the globe is quickly warming, bomb Iraq.
If the poor will soon be storming, bomb Iraq.
We assert that might makes right,
Burning oil is a delight,
For the empire we will fight,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

If corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain’t easy,
And your manhood’s getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.

Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might now knows no borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We’ll call it treason,
It's the make war not love season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.

by John Robbins
 
This thread is completely hilarious, except for the Voltaire maxim which carries some truth.

TRY GOING TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND SPEAK AGAINST WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE. YOU WILL MORE THAN LIKELY END UP JAILED OR EVEN KILLED.
Click to expand...
LMAO !!! Never been in France, I deduce.

just give the palestinians a contiguous land mass as their state according to UN SC resolutions and the treaties that Israel has signed on to (Oslo for one). Guarantee the existence of a palestinian state, and help them establish a civil society.
Click to expand...

Yeah, "just" is the right word. Just, like in "just disarm Russia" or in "just liberate Iraq". LOL.

America doesn't have an offically declared language
Click to expand...
So what ? Go to a public school and ask what language they teach. You'll be fixed.

speak your mind, but if you don't like where you live, leave
Click to expand...
Jesuitist conception excluding mecreantism from democracy. Very deeplys rooted in US, FR, ITA, UK and GER democracies. Big point.

Finally, I've read the Bomb Iraq song for the third time (already
received it via mail). Still hilarious too !

As staed by ksv: this discussion is so stupid I can't even make myselft serious engough to participate in an intelligent way :D !
 
Of course, since Britain and America are the two main warmongers, it would make sense to organize something there.
Click to expand...

actually moveon.org has rallies and marches planned again this sunday. we just had them two weekends ago as well. moveon.org is founded by the people who used to own Berkely Systems - makers of After Dark sreen savers and such. there was a nice big article in today's San Francisco Chronicle about them.

for more on the American net organized anti-war movement, check out moveon.org.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top