Give me a BREAK

treetopflyer

Registered
OS X is ridiculous! I read all of this spin saying how it was going to be the world's most advanced os, and decided to buy it.. as it turns out, running on my graphite iMac with 256 MB Ram, it is the world's slowest os. When I use instant messenger, I can type faster than the computer can think.. when I resize windows, it takes a few years for it to work. and that stupid dock is so big and clumsy.. I wish apple could have made an OS that was faster and better rather than prettier. and I call up apple and they say..."uhhh.. you can't uninstall it"
 

Oompa

Registered
This is a first release...why not give them time now to complete all of the features and optimize. There are obviously things to be done. I don't think they released this thinking they were done...do you?

As for the dock, have you tried shrinking it down?
 

treetopflyer

Registered
guess so.. I'm just accustomed to getting a better product when I upgrade my computer. I think I'll try and go back to os 9 and then wait for os 10.5 or something to come out
 

Oompa

Registered
me too....I mostly use my computer for digital audio stuff. It will be while before I can use os x for any of that. I mostly spending time getting familier with whole thing.

I did read the Inside MacOS X System Overview. It was actually pretty interesting. There was definitely a whole lot of work done beside the BSD stuff. If they can fine-tune all the technologies involved and developers really make use of the full set of technologies...it will be pretty amazing. I don't think it will really shine until there a large software base on the cocoa side.
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
I am still using the public beta lol :p
I will not upgrade yet because as a hobby I play around with audio & visual stuff, with different OSs in VPC, and a small time DVD viewer ;-) It's better to wait a little while to let apple get all their stuff in order.

I have waited a long time for OS X, I can wait a couple of more months ;)


Admiral
 

superrcat

Registered
Originally posted by treetopflyer
OS X is ridiculous! I read all of this spin saying how it was going to be the world's most advanced os, and decided to buy it.. as it turns out, running on my graphite iMac with 256 MB Ram, it is the world's slowest os. When I use instant messenger, I can type faster than the computer can think.. when I resize windows, it takes a few years for it to work. and that stupid dock is so big and clumsy.. I wish apple could have made an OS that was faster and better rather than prettier. and I call up apple and they say..."uhhh.. you can't uninstall it"
One thing that I found out "VERY" useful is if you boot off a Norton Utilites CD and defragment the volume, it increases performance a lot. Also, you can modify the Dock in many different ways, you can decrease the size, turn off the bouncing icons, and even get rid of the magnification if you want.

This is better and not prettier. For the first time Mac users have better memory management, and users with dual processors can take advantage of them. I would give it a chance, I mean that would be like judging Mac OS back in 1984... Once the updates are released...if you haven't already got the 10.0.1 update, you will notice major performance a redraw improvements in windows. Remember, if you have anything less than a Rage 128, some drivers don't have the hardware acceleration in them yet..give it some time. I would make 2 partitions if I were use, both with HFS so you can remove Mac OS X if you wish, but give it a chance.. :)


superrcat-
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
I have norton 5 (utils)... can they defrag an OS X volume (in HFS+) or will it screw it up just like norton 3.5 did with HFS+ volumes (because it would only recognize HFS volumes). Is there going to be an OS X norton available anytime soon ??? ;-)


Admiral
 

theed

Registered
Personally, I'm a big fan of TechTool from MicroMat, they seem to care about the mac, and their support has been well above and beyond anything I expected. And their products try real hard to not do anything that they can't do right.

As for OS X on an iMac, hardware video acceleration is a real issue, as well as a lot of G4 optimizations that just don't help you. I'm running side by side on a Powerbook G3 233 and a dual 450 G4 tower. It's like two completely different OSes. I agree the user interface is a little overloaded and sluggish. Apple knows what they are doing with this, they just need to tweak their code.

I do a lot of network stuff, unix and windows interaction, network routing, DNS serving, and other stuff often served well by *nix, I have to tell you I'd never go back to 9. If Apple dropped support for X today, I'd still be using it for years to come. ... I'd want the code so I could tweak it though. :)
 

plaidpjs

Registered
AdmiralAK,

Norton 5 will screw you up even worse then the install of OS X. For whatever reason the installl makes a mess of the HDD. I used the Norton SystemWorks CD to boot and run Disk Doctor and Speed Disk. You can also use the native Disk Utility to do some fixes but no native defrag as far as I can tell.
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
This sux but its only a brand new OS :)
I Look foorward to the day when OS X is complete (well completeness can never be achived, but for all arguments let say it can be complete) when it has all these toold built in. Its gonna be one lean mean processing machine ;-)
 

plaidpjs

Registered
Well, I'll be damned... positive people do exist on these boards... hehe
 

Kazrog

Mac Metalhead
My best friend has OS X on his Graphite iBook with 256 megs of ram, same setup, and it runs VERY fast, every bit as fast as my G4/450 desktop for most common tasks.

But he installed the developer's kit. There is a little-known bug that the OS won't optimize itself UNLESS you install the developer's kit. This affects 90% of people, so 90% of people are running an OS that is too slow for their machine for no good reason.

Apple will fix this in the 10.0.1 upgrade - until that's released, the only known fix is to install the developer's kit.
 

CaptainFoo

Registered
I installed the dev tools immediately on my iMac. The GUI still feels really slow. Especially the menus... I would happily have opaque menus, if that meant they would be faster!

Personally I think, slow resize of windows I can live with, because I don't resize too often. But the menus definately need to be snappy.
 

Kazrog

Mac Metalhead
I just don't get it. My friend actually has LESS ram than you, 198 megs, and the OS rocks on it. It's really fast, the menus, the dock, everything is snappy. Like I said, almost identical to my G4 in terms of getting around the OS itself.

Are you running any huge Classic apps that are bogging it down? Try turning off your Classic environment altogether. You may have some extensions or other apps that are hogging processor time.

Other than that, I'm out of guesses.
 

russgold

Member
While the menu performance is *really* bad on my beige G3 266 (in the finder, about 5 seconds between a click and the menu showing up), I think I am even more bothered by the lack of attention to so many of the things which made the MacOS much more usable than Windows.

o I now realize that the 'all windows come forward with the application' was a productivity enhancer, as it allowed for easy chunking of windows. In the new scheme, if the window you want is behind the windows of another application, you must first select your application and then look for your window - yes, you can select it from the Dock, but that is more work than the single step process MacOS 9 uses.

o The apple menu allowed you to store a lot of frequently accessed information in an easily grouped hierarchical form. The Dock doesn't allow for as much because it insists on placing icons everywhere

o Spring-loaded folders and disk aliases allowed quick access to any arbitrary level place on the disk. The new Finder multicolumn view is nice, but requires click - wait - click -wait- click -wait- to get to anything not in your favorites

o The very flexible drag-and-drop of text seems to be gone; at least none of the OSX applications exhibit it.

o The anti-aliased text in the menus is pretty - but it takes up a lot more space. I cannot see nearly as many items in my menus as before.

o The OS 9 scroll bars had very easy to see and click arrows - and even allowed you to place them at the same side of the bar. OSX scrollbars force them to opposite sides again, and are visually much smaller, even if you can really hit an area well to their side, bounded by harder-to-see gray lines

Overall, it looks as though Apple has not produced a better MacOS, as much as they have produced a nice GUI for Unix; At this point I would rate its usability no better than Windows 2000, if that.
 

plaidpjs

Registered
Originally posted by russgold
I now realize that the 'all windows come forward with the application' was a productivity enhancer, as it allowed for easy chunking of windows. In the new scheme, if the window you want is behind the windows of another application, you must first select your application and then look for your window - yes, you can select it from the Dock, but that is more work than the single step process MacOS 9 uses.
How is clicking on an icon in the Dock NOT one step? Click! BAMMM! All windows forward...

The apple menu allowed you to store a lot of frequently accessed information in an easily grouped hierarchical form. The Dock doesn't allow for as much because it insists on placing icons everywhere
Because the Dock uses an icon doesn't mean you can't have hierarchical storage. I have a folder on my dock for my MP3s, when I click and hold on it I get a pop-up of the thirteen folders within that folder and when I run the pointer overone of those I get a list of yet more sub-folders or a list of the MP3s at that level. How is that not hierarchical. The best part is, I just set-up the file structure once, then dragged the primary folder (with a nice new Carlito Aqua Icon in place) to the Dock, viola aliased, awesome. The Old Apple Menu required you to open the System Folder, open the Apple Menu Folder, then creat a new sub-folder. Into that subfolder you could then place aliases you created to other places. Yuck, too much work. But, if you still want to do that you can, you just place the folder in the dock after you set it up, with one small advantage, it doesn't have to be inside of your system Folder.

Spring-loaded folders and disk aliases allowed quick access to any arbitrary level place on the disk. The new Finder multicolumn view is nice, but requires click - wait - click -wait- click -wait- to get to anything not in your favorites
This is such crap. Yes, the Finder is currently slow (not exceptionally slo on everyone's machine, but on some), but you can have one click access to anyplace on the HDD simply by dragging it's parent folder to the menu bar. Hell, you could even add an alias to the favorites directory and access it that way in two clicks. Also, you can put an alias to your harddrive on the Dock and have click and hold navigation to any point you want.

The very flexible drag-and-drop of text seems to be gone; at least none of the OSX applications exhibit it.
Are you refering to "clippings" or to drag and drop movement of text in a document? If you refer to clippings, every app does that. If you mean drag & drop movement of text within a document, then you are only partially correct. Several Cocoa and Carbon apps support it, but several do not. i don't know why, but I also think it has more to do with the app then the OS. Don't know for sure, though.

Ciao
 

russgold

Member
Originally posted by plaidpjs


How is clicking on an icon in the Dock NOT one step? Click! BAMMM! All windows forward...
The Dock is not the most convenient place to go for things - you have to visually identify which icon represents your application and select it. And if you auto-hide the Dock so that it doesn't steal screen space, you also have to wait for it to reappear. This is significantly less convenient that simply clicking on one the application windows and having them all come forward.





Because the Dock uses an icon doesn't mean you can't have hierarchical storage. I have a folder on my dock for my MP3s, when I click and hold on it I get a pop-up of the thirteen folders within that folder and when I run the pointer overone of those I get a list of yet more sub-folders or a list of the MP3s at that level. How is that not hierarchical. The best part is, I just set-up the file structure once, then dragged the primary folder (with a nice new Carlito Aqua Icon in place) to the Dock, viola aliased, awesome.
I have done this as well. What you cannot do is use the hard disk as the top-level menu, as you can in MacOS9. Plus, you keep having to go to the Dock for *everything*. I have placed alternative icons on my folders. They worked great - until I rebooted into MacOS9 and then back; then they vanished.



The Old Apple Menu required you to open the System Folder, open the Apple Menu Folder, then creat a new sub-folder. Into that subfolder you could then place aliases you created to other places. Yuck, too much work. But, if you still want to do that you can, you just place the folder in the dock after you set it up, with one small advantage, it doesn't have to be inside of your system Folder.
I never had to open my System Folder - I just dragged things to the Apple Menu Folder alias on my desktop. But you miss the point. Icons take up a lot more room than an entry in a menu, and usually it is the text that distinguishes entries, not the icon - I shouldn't have to find a unique icon to let me store 6 recognizable folders, when the Apple Menu let me store 30 entries with no extra effort.


Hell, you could even add an alias to the favorites directory and access it that way in two clicks. Also, you can put an alias to your harddrive on the Dock and have click and hold navigation to any point you want.
OK, I see that I now can get access to much of the drive that way. Of course, some directories are not accessible (like /usr), but I guess I have to live with that. Thanks.


Are you refering to "clippings" or to drag and drop movement
of text in a document? If you refer to clippings, every app does that. If you mean drag & drop movement of text within a document, then you are only partially correct. Several Cocoa and Carbon apps support it, but several do not. i don't know why, but I also think it has more to do with the app then the OS. Don't know for sure, though.
I actually meant drag-and-drop between applications. Most OS9 apps seem to do that - but some (like Project Builder) don't even support it within a document!
 

plaidpjs

Registered
Originally posted by russgold
The Dock is not the most convenient place to go for things - you have to visually identify which icon represents your application and select it. And if you auto-hide the Dock so that it doesn't steal screen space, you also have to wait for it to reappear. This is significantly less convenient that simply clicking on one the application windows and having them all come forward.
Steal screen space? Okay, if you say so... of course, I'm on a Cinema Display, so it really doesn't bother me, and when I autohide my Dock pops up almost too fast. So, ican't even begin to sympathize with you there. But, I will concede that clicking on the app window is any easier way to bring the app and all its companion windows forward. But, as far as a gripe is concerned, it's WAY down on the list.

I have done this as well. What you cannot do is use the hard disk as the top-level menu, as you can in MacOS9. Plus, you keep having to go to the Dock for *everything*. I have placed alternative icons on my folders. They worked great - until I rebooted into MacOS9 and then back; then they vanished.

I never had to open my System Folder - I just dragged things to the Apple Menu Folder alias on my desktop. But you miss the point. Icons take up a lot more room than an entry in a menu, and usually it is the text that distinguishes entries, not the icon - I shouldn't have to find a unique icon to let me store 6 recognizable folders, when the Apple Menu let me store 30 entries with no extra effort.
I surely didn't miss the point. I think you are actually being pigheaded here. First, with the old Apple Menu you had to go up to the Apple icon and click, you then got a drop down menu with little icons and text, those that were folder would fly out with another drop down menu when you ran the cursor over them. You say convenient, great. But why can't you see that adding a folder to the dock does exactly the same thing, but with fly up or fly out windows depending on where you have it placed.

Let's use the easy example of the HDD. If you have them displayed on the desktop, take your primary drive icon and place it into the Dock. Now, just like it was your Apple icon go to it, click and hold down, viola a text menu of your drive, not icons. The same can be achieved for a Folder. Where is the big difference to the Apple Menu? There is none, besides the convenience of dragging alias to an aliased folder you kept on your desktop. And, some of us don't want all those extra things on our desktops, you just happen to find it easier, great. Go get Drag Thing or the other 3rd party meanu app, they work pretty damn well for what you want, but don't blame the Dock.

Oh, and what is the problem with having to visually identify something? This is after all a GRAPHICAL user Interface, is it not? I barely need to glance at the dock and i know exactly what i want, I love that, the icons are all very distinct, or do you think that an icon of a Palm V will actually light off Adobe Photoshop? Duh... For conveying small bits of information quickly, pictures are alwasy the best bet. if you want to have a long drawn out discussion, then text is the way to go... of course, there are instance in both ways where a visual cue or text will be better then the other... but for this purpose, i can't see where the issue lies, but that is just my HO.
 

pbrice

Member
I installed OS X on March 29th on my one month old (at that time) Cube. I have not had ANY problems. Maybe it's because my system was relatively 'fresh', but the only problems I seem to have with speed is window re-sizing. Certainly the window drags slightly when I resize, but it isn't way behind. My cursur is just a little ahead of the window redraw...that's all. But I have no problems with moving windows. In fact, I can shake a window back-and-forth and it just moves back-and-forth, it doesn't lag at all. It just looks like I'm moving the entire window around, not re-drawing, just moving.

Everything else seems perfectly fast, from menus to most Finder functions. The only slow items in the Finder seem to e resizing icons in a folder containing a large number of images. I have a folder of about 300 images where the icons are previews of the image itself, the icon resizing seems to drag a bit.

One thing I can say for certain, everything looks just beatiful. Even if the Quartz graphic technology is taxing the system, I can say that I'm glad they did it. From the icons, to the windows, pictures, text--hell, even web pages, all look just fantastic. I find text so easy to read and clear now (even at small sizes) that I just can't believe it.

 
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