Give me a BREAK

Jurneyman

Uber Geek.
On my iMac DV+, OS X moves along smooth as slik. I do notice a bit of lag when I click on a menu, but not much. What gets me is that I surf faster with Netscape in classic than I do with OmniWeb or IE. When I updated to 10.0.1 and then again (printer drivers of some sort?), I noticed a _HUGE_ speed increase.

But my Kingston USB cam and my PNY Flash card reader still doesnt work :< (but in classic, I can access the card reader :/).




-Me

iMac DV+ Sage w/192 Megs of RAM
 

Magill

Registered
One thing to remember about OS X.... it is a REAL operating system. The old Mac OS was not much different than DOS -- it never quite got out of the way as DOS did when a program was running, but it did get most of itself out of the way, leaving the application program 100% of the CPU.
<P>
OS X on the other hand, never gets out of the way when an application program is running. Also, there are "daemons" running all the time which never get out of the way. Just because you are the only one on your box running an application, doesn't mean that nothing else is happening. OS X really IS a "time sharing" operating system.
<P>
All this is just modern operating system theory. But it is a different model than the old Mac OS used!
<P>
There is a program called "top" which can be run in the terminal window. It is much better than Process Viewer (which is a poor imitation of top). Other than the fact that this version of top probably doesn't know about multi-processors, it's a good way to find out what is happening.
("CPU Monitor" in Applications/Utilites has a pull down which will launch top for you.)
 

Mr_Frost

Registered

There is a way to get the same result as Installing the developer tools does.

Just by typing this in the terminal :

sudo update_prebinding -root /


This might just take a while to do but it's worth it (that's my opinion though) It does exactly the same thing as the Dev Tools update does.
There is also a little app that does this for you. I can't remember the name , but search a little on Versiotracker and you will find it.
If this has allready been posted then I am sorry to have wasted your (and my) time :)
 

AlanBDahl

Registered
Originally posted by russgold
It seems to me that people with fast processors (400 Mhz G4 or better) are quite happy with OS X performance. It is only those of us with the slower G3s that are feeling hammered. I just wish I could disable transparency in the menus and window bars, and anti-aliasing of system text. It is pretty, but not worth it to me
I have an iMac DV-SE 500 256mb and OSX runs just fine on it. Sometimes I am very surprised by just home much I can load it up without causing problems. I used to kill Classic as soon as I didn't need it but I can hardly tell it's there so most of the time I leave it running in the background just in case I need it.

I suspect that there are several factors that cause some machines to slow down while others don't. Among these are processor speed, memory, hard disk speed and disk fragmentation. In my opinion the latter two are probably more important than the former two. I would recommend defraging your HD, pre-binding and installing 10.0.01 (and perhaps the developer tools). Some things like the HD speed you can't do much about unfortunately. Getting the 7200rpm drive was one of the big reasons I went for the DV-SE over the DV+. The speed difference is very obvious if you compare machines with the 7200 rpm drive with machines with the slower 5400rpm drive. Since OSX uses the HD for virtual memory the HD speed can have quite an effect on performance.
 

Jurneyman

Uber Geek.
Originally posted by Kazrog
Maxebb - this is not the fault of OS X, but of the (stupid) Internet Explorer 5.1 preview release.

I highly reccomend using OmniWeb. It is the best browser out there for any platform. The only problem with it is lack of plug-ins, etc., but the more that we support them, the more this browser will become a standard to be contended with.

Contrary to popular belief, the browser war is NOT over. Join the struggle, download OmniWeb at www.omnigroup.com

f00


Netscape 4.7 on my iMac DV+ runs faster and better than OmniWeb or IE. Loads in less than 3 seconds. And all the plugin's still work.

-Me

 

Jurneyman

Uber Geek.
Originally posted by Magill
One thing to remember about OS X.... it is a REAL operating system. The old Mac OS was not much different than DOS -- it never quite got out of the way as DOS did when a program was running, but it did get most of itself out of the way, leaving the application program 100% of the CPU.

<snip>

OS X is a UNIX OS, with REAL multitasking.


<P>
OS X on the other hand, never gets out of the way when an application program is running. Also, there are "daemons" running all the time which never get out of the way. Just because you are the only one on your box running an application, doesn't mean that nothing else is happening. OS X really IS a "time sharing" operating system.


<snip>

Welcome to unix.

Dont like the idea that the daemons are useing so much CPU with out surendering tick's? renice them! man renice for more info.

ps aux | grep (whatever)

renice -p (pid of what ever) (new level of nicity {0 and less are real time, anything greater than 0 depends on how much cpu power they really get!}



<P>
All this is just modern operating system theory. But it is a different model than the old Mac OS used!

<snip>

Modern OS theory? Since when is a OS first built in the 70's modern? (Granted, BSD isnt the first unix, but still).


<P>
There is a program called "top" which can be run in the terminal window. It is much better than Process Viewer (which is a poor imitation of top). Other than the fact that this version of top probably doesn't know about multi-processors, it's a good way to find out what is happening.
("CPU Monitor" in Applications/Utilites has a pull down which will launch top for you.)
<snip>

man top! There are lot's of options! Wondering what all this man <whatever> is? Type this in your term: man man
 

jim1061

Registered
<i>"This is a first release...why not give them time now to complete all of the features and optimize. There are obviously things to be done. I don't think they released
this thinking they were done...do you?"</i>

I see, so Apple has rushed so often to unveil new products at the MacWorlds each year and they have released so many sub-standard first time releases that we should now accept this and pay our hard earned money for crap that isn't really ready???

Sorry, maybe you have gotten used to being ripped off but I haven't. Apple, as is so often the case has shorted us again.
For two years, I have been wrestling with the "original" OS X...you know, the one that came without instructions, and I have a bitter taste from that. I for one give Apple zero benefit of the doubt...they do the same thing over and over again...They are more interested in the fanfare of MacWorld than they are the satisfaction of their true customers. Now, after promising the release of the Mac OS X Server "shortly" after the client, we sit and wait and wait and wait.

I have no choice at work...I must use Mac because the boss originally purchased Mac but I am so fed up with them and would never think of buying Mac at home...besides, why buy something from a company that is likely to drown in the next few years at which time my response will be "good riddance".
 

Mr_Frost

Registered
I have no choice at work...I must use Mac because the boss originally purchased Mac but I am so fed up with them and would never think of buying Mac at home...besides, why buy something from a company that is likely to drown in the next few years at which time my response will be "good riddance". [/B]

Apple drown in the next few years ??
aaah...you sound like your typical "I would like to lick Bill Gates's asshole clean" kinda guy don't you?
You guys have been saying that Apple will drown since 1984...and still they kick ass. I am loving my OSX. It is NOT slow on my computer (slower than OS9.1 but not slow) Software will come in the summer and Apple does listen to their customers...esspecially compared to Windoze.
Have you ever heard anybody say "I'm going to mail those guys at Microsoft...2541 crashes a day is a little too much for me"?

Ah well...don't like it don't use it.
And as far as the fact that you have to because it's your job...who cares what you are working on...as long as you get your money at the end of the month.
 

Kazrog

Mac Metalhead
I don't see why anyone doesn't like OS X. I mean, be specific. Have you upgraded to 10.0.2? If not, then shut the hell up and upgrade.

At what point does an OS become "finished," at what point do you stop? All software is a work in progress.

You are not going to convince anyone that OS X sucks without providing specific evidence. I have never had any serious problems with it.
 

jim1061

Registered
<i>"Apple drown in the next few years ??"</i>

If it were not for a clever brainstorm and massive advertising campaign for the Icrap, Apple would already be dead. Icrap was a stroke of genius but like everything else Apple does, the first release was horrific. Later, I must admit, they did a nice job. I'm just glad I'm not one of those suckers that ran out for the first Imac...what a piece of junk..but that overpriced box of nuts and bolts saved Apple. Now that the IMac craze has subsided, Apple is showing a significant downturn again...its just a matter of time before they either go under or are forced to integrate into one PC-type machine.

<i>"aaah...you sound like your typical "I would like to lick Bill Gates's asshole clean" kinda guy don't you?"</i>

Not at all and now you've gone and done it....you've made an ASS of U and ME. You assume incorrectly. I curse Bill anytime I have Windows problems because he too is far from perfect. I actually like aspects of macs, I just don't like Apple. They are a bunch of rah rah cheerleaders more focused on how much applause they will get at Macworld than making a good product from DAY 1. I've been to several Macworlds and it is nauseating to watch the goobers and geeks bend over for Apple. Talk about licking a-holes...go to MacWorld my friend and you'll see it at every turn.

<i>"You guys have been saying that Apple will drown since
1984...and still they kick ass."</i>

Kick ass???? Recent survey has shown that Bill has 87% of the market and Steve has 13%...where in those numbers do you see Apple kicking ass????

<i>"who cares what you are working on...as long as you get your money at the end of the month."</i>

Well put. Actually I am studying Unix which is why I came into this board in the first place. Neither Mac nor Windows can or ever will stand up to the original masterpiece....Unix and thats why I prefer to learn it and never have to rely on either platform, but when given a choice between those two, I'll gladly suffer through a few crashes than live with sub-standard and since learning Unix is no overnight task, I'll live with Win while I must choose...best of luck with your way of doing things. We all have to do it the best way we see fit and I do not challenge your right to choose, only the company that owns your choice.

Jim
 

Kazrog

Mac Metalhead
Apple's first releases being crap? The iMac was great for its time and a steal! Mac OS X is well on its way to being the best OS ever made, and the new Macs are the best machines on the market!

Apple does like to make a big impression and please crowds, but it does it by the quality of its products and its true innovation. The only reason Apple has had a bad last quarter is because the whole tech industry has, and of all the companies out there, Apple was among those hit LEAST hard by the sales slump.

Sales of Apple's latest laptops, the PowerBook G4 and the redesigned iBook are skyrocketing, and Mac OS X is flying off shelves everywhere.

In fact, when I recieved my Mac OS X in the mail, the UPS man said, without me saying anything "What are all these Apple boxes, these have been slowing down our couriers all day!"
 

Mr_Frost

Registered
I'm just glad I'm not one of those suckers that ran out for the first Imac...what a piece of junk..but that overpriced box of nuts and bolts saved Apple.
Well...guess I just happen to be one of those suckers. I still use it to this day and I have't had a single problem with it. Off course I prefer my G4

I've been to several Macworlds and it is nauseating to watch the goobers and geeks bend over for Apple. Talk about licking a-holes...go to MacWorld my friend and you'll see it at every turn.
Been to MacWorld New York 2 years ago....came all the way from Belgium for the Filemaker booth.

Kick ass???? Recent survey has shown that Bill has 87% of the market and Steve has 13%...where in those numbers do you see Apple kicking ass????
I don't care about market percentage...what I want is a computer and an operating system that I like...nothing more nothing less.

Well put.
Well thank you :D

We all have to do it the best way we see fit and I do not challenge your right to choose, only the company that owns your choice.
Nobody OWNS my choice....it's not like I haven't tried anything else yet. (I too have a job you know) It's just that I haven't run into anything quit like my Mac. If I do...I will sure as hell let you know ;)

Mr_Frost


 

jim1061

Registered
Shane- I see you are a 22 year old Pantera fan. Now that I understand the source of the previous comments on Mac and OS X I realize my best course of action...move on since I'm wasting my time here. If your knowledge of Apple is in line with your knowledge of talented musicians, then I guess you really know nothing about Apple...time to move beyond this.
 

Mr_Frost

Registered
Originally posted by jim1061
Shane- I see you are a 22 year old Pantera fan. Now that I understand the source of the previous comments on Mac and OS X I realize my best course of action...move on since I'm wasting my time here. If your knowledge of Apple is in line with your knowledge of talented musicians, then I guess you really know nothing about Apple...time to move beyond this.
OK...NOW I AM PISSED OFF !!!!!
I like Pantera as well man...(I wish I was still 22 though);
What does a choice of music have to do with this ??
Guess this just confirms that you are a narrow-minded person.
I have been using Mac for 8 years now..I know that's not long compared to some of the guru's that wonder this earth , but my choice of music has never had any influence on any of my actions. The only bad reactions I got from people were from 97 year olds who just didn't know what was happening to their oh so quiet world. You need to realise that we don't all listen to Shania Twain and jerk off on the cd-cover.

ah well...fuck it...my boss isn't complaining and my paycheck is gettin' bigger each day. That is the only thing that counts.
 

Kazrog

Mac Metalhead
Musical taste is subjective. OS specs are not. You still have not provided any concrete reasons for your dislike of Mac OS X.

So unless you provide any, I'm assuming you're giving up your argument.

PS - if you can't respect the skill of Pantera, then you have no idea what you're talking about musically either. Like their music or not, they have undeniably great musical skill.

 

Mr_Frost

Registered
Well...I'm off to bed...might listen to some heavy tunes first though. :D
Guess this discussion is closed.
Rock Hard...(Jeff Beck is King) !!
OSX is well on it's way to becoming the only true operating system for the future!
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
I have to DISagree with you on your music tastes, club/house/techno/happy hardcore are my medicine, but I DO AGREE that OS X rules. I am on 10.0.2, and for a 1.0 software it is GR8!!

OS X is the fastest now than it ever was(for 2 months now). OS X has been making a lot of strides in the 2 months of its commercial life, and its future looks GREAT :D


Viva OS X, VIVA OS X technologies....and please ressurect the newton :) That was a GREAT technology WAY ahead of its time that every other PDA copies ourdays.


Admiral
 

theed

Registered
And I hope the flaming remains closed. If Macs didn't have flaws, they'd own the market. If they didn't have something that no-one else had, they wouldn't be in the market.

I have to say that the correlation between musical taste and computer usage was making me feel f-ing hostile, what I felt was not properly addresses was/were two things. 1, nice - does nice work now? It hadn't before. It'd make me really happy if I could properly nice things. I apologize to the uninitiated for using nice as a verb.

2, the cathedral vs. the bazaar - releasing the OS and releasing an update every couple of weeks is one of the most innovative things Apple has done. This is the benefit of the open source development cycle. Rapid development, partial completion of large tasks by completing small tasks. Tight and fast development cycles. I really couldn't be happier with the way things are going. It friggin' rocks. I agree it's not finished, it's evolving, so are humans. I'm glad to be here in my imperfect form helping to improve the state of everything. ... and computers are fun too.

<preachiness> Those were my concerns from this thread, but I also hope that in the future we can welcome the unenlightened and try to learn from them as well as teach them. The religious wars are completely unnecessary. They don't belong here. ... The argument could easily be made that Jim didn't belong here either, but I'll let that slide.

I come here for information and enlightened conversation, and I rabidly avoid the Apple boards because they are full of drivel like this thread started to be. Zealots yelling at each other telling their side of the story, giving information instead of getting it. This is some of the worst zealot style material I've seen on these boards, and it saddens me a bit. At the same time I'm proud that this is the worst I've seen here. I just thought I'd address it. </preachiness>
 

jim1061

Registered
Shane,

First of all, whatever your musical taste or opinion, mine should not matter at all to you. Getting so upset about the musical taste of a stranger on a Mac Os X board is a bit unnecessary. If I offended...I apologize. I'm older than you and have different tastes. My personal opinion (and thats all it is) is that Pantera is a horrible no talent bunch of noise and that most rap out there would be better off labeled crap but again its only an opinion...certainly nothing that should be taken very seriously. Its not that I don't like hard rock, but I think there are hard rockers with much more talent...Aerosmith, Black Sabbath and the original Van Halen are three of the most talented rock bands ever and far far more talented than Pantera...but again, thats my opinion...so lighten up and enjoy your own music.

As for OS X, well I've worked with it since it was introduced and I've worked on a Mac at my job for 7 years. I've had PCs at home for 10 years. I believe my overall exposure to these machines and platforms gives me a pretty good insight and ability to offer a reasonable opinion/evaluation.

There are many things about Macs that I like but just as many things about PCs. I do not believe Steve or Bill have done a very good job of replacing Unix. I certainly don't think Mac having Unix within it is better than Unix itself and finally, my personal experience with both platforms yields a preference to PCs. I will not in any way deny the shortcomings of Microsoft, but it is a fact that a large percentage of the "real" world uses it.

I'm always looking in the computer field for jobs and I have found that while searching around, the demand for Mac experienced people is minimal. Unix and Microsoft based skills are in much higher demand especially in NYC where I live. So, my preference and opinion comes from both experience and observation. As for Mac fans, I find most annoying (but not all). Macworld is nauseating....I go as a requirement for work. Like I said in the last post, its all fanfare with so little substance and I truly believe based solely on actual hands-on experiences that Apple makes it a regular practice of releasing products that are sub-standard in order to grab the fools that get caught up in the fanfare...then improve on the products and actually offer solid products that should have been released originally. Thats not to say it doesn't happen in the Windows world...but I see it more annoyingly in the Mac world.

Good Luck on your choice...mine ultimately is Unix where neither Bill nor Steve can get my money.

Jim
 

theed

Registered
I don't get the feeling that Apple releases stuff less finished than their competition. I do feel that they spend a lot more time (proportionately) than others on their fanfare, and this does occasionally leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I feel that the most important thing that Apple has done is bring about the mataphor and style that have since become ubiquitous. I really like Mac OS X because it keeps most of the Mac OS that I like, and adds the unix stuff that I have begun to depend on. It allows me to do on one computer what used to require two.

I don't feel that Mac OS X is nearly as significant as the original Mac was. It does, however, allow me to have my Mac and eat Unix too. This combined with a reasonable path for longevity for my Mac make me love this OS in a way that no one can take away. I'm proud that Apple has done something significant enough in the industrial computing world that a unix head like you even feels it's worth his time to post to a board like this.

I also have to give to Jim kudos for even walking on both sides of the fence. I'm proud of my Mac, and I can respect anyone who can appreciate this as a valid choice. Even if they choose to think different. ;-)
 
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