Happy Independance Day, Iraq!

Kendall, can you please tell me literally what part of my posts consists in "LIES and PROPAGANDA"? I would appreciate if you could produce any proof to the contrary of what I have stated. Support for what I have said exists in photographs which have been published in the last months throughout the world. Moreover, what do you mean exactly with "propaganda"? Who do you think has recruited me to convince whom of what? Are you implying that I couldn't be honestly convinced of what I am posting and that I have been manipulated and brainwashed? I am telling you that I arrive at my own conclusions which I deem to be the Truth to the best of my knowledge. If everybody is fine in Abu-Ghraib and the other prisons, why will the US Army not permit certified UN personnel access to the prisoners in order to verify their health and juridical rights? My statement the "There is still no conclusive evidence for many of these cases" referred to rape of women. These cases are difficult to prove, as the victims know that if they admit to have been raped they must face dishonour at home and this will ruin their lives. Hence they prefer to hide it.

You want proof? Read this:
"etween October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees. This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force. … The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence. … I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:

a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear;

f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture; …

j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture;

k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee …

These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements. …

In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses (ANNEX 26):

a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. Threatening male detainees with rape; …

g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick."

—Executive summary of Taguba report, finalized Feb. 29, 2004, briefed to superiors on March 3, 2004, and submitted in final form on March 9, 2004
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Also you might be interested in this article. Be sure not to miss the sodomy parts. Have a nice day.
 
cat, your fingers are definitely clickin away but all im reading is "blah blah blah blah blah." :D
 
Cat said:
... and men preferred darkness to the light ... (John 3-19) :(
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Hey look MDLarson! Cat is quoting the bible :eek: I'm not one to make light of the abuse in Iraq, but there are some out there that think it's something like university initiation rituals!I find that the most disturbing of all,& I'm sure the population of Iraq would as well.Oh they claim the "kids"just went a little too far in their hazing.Yes I'm sure the superiors in charge had to have known what was happening.So everybody here who is concerned about this issue must have seen the news about the memo that had been circulating in the Justice Dept. about torture of prisoners & the legalities that could allow such things to occur.In efffing credible!that as much as anything this administration has done has me hoping for a Kerry/Edwards victory!
 
Some interesting items for the Euros to think about.

The US military still occupies Germany to ensure German "national" security. The German people are free to govern themselves.

NATO assists in the "national" security of Europe. NATO's power is derived from the US military. The EU is free to govern itself.

Europe in free and democratic because of the US military.

NATO/US military cleaned up the latest genocidal maniac in Europe recently in the Balkans. How many times do we have to help you?

If the US wants to go to Iraq and bring the same freedom to people there, why does Europe object so much? My guess is that there is resentment of the US ability to accomplish great things. Freedom to Eastern Europe, Freedom to Western Europe, Freedom to Russia, Freedom to South Africa, Freedom to Iraq.

Remember Freedom is not free. Visit any WWII cemetery in Europe. There are plenty of them and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans buried in them.

Also remember, America could have removed Saddam without one American casualty. However, the cost of Iraqi live in that type of war would be unbearable. The US military shows great restraint in modern warfare. Civilian casualties are limited as much as possible. Less civilians have been killed by the US military in Iraq than were being killed by Saddam.
 
I'm kinda out of the loop (haven't been getting notification emails recently for some reason...) but I wanted to say a piece about the Abu Ghraib thing.

1) We don't know what information the U.S. Military was trying to extract from the prisoners; I believe that under special circumstances, "torture" is justifiable. Having said that, I do not believe that the majority of reported abuses coming out of Abu fall under this category (meaning they probably were not justified). My point is simply that we don't know the circumstances surrounding the pictures.

2) Even if 100% of the abuse cases were inappropriate, the whole thing was being handled responsibly by the military several weeks (months?) BEFORE the press even knew about it (and subsequently blew it out of proportion).

3) Senator Ted Kennedy's remarks equating Saddam's torture chambers to Abu Ghraib is assinine. The few fatal cases of torture by the U.S. military cannot be compared to the atrocities commited by Saddam's regime (drilling holes through people's hands or just cutting them off, for instance).

4) I can't immediately substantiate this, but I've heard that the Iraqi people (at least those that do not decapitate people) have seen our President react to Abu Ghraib and have generally accepted the news with more grace than the press and the liberal left has in America.

In short, bad things happened, but the story has been blown WAY out of proportion.
 
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