HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL: Things that I miss from Windows

don't worry racer i got your back - lol

actually, the only thing i really enjoy about windows, and wish i had on my mac, is their version of solitaire. you have to admit it's definetly superior to any version of solitaire we have.

:cool:
 
It's unfortunate that the only person who agrees with me has taken this discussion as a personal attack. I've been having difficulty stating my case, but I really don't feel that anyone has been belligerent towards my opinions.

Anyway...
I also miss the process viewer in the task manager. I have much more control in XP or 2000 of programs and process and columns.(forget 9x me crap)
Have you tried 'top'? Go to a Terminal window, type top. Voila, processes and memory galore. Type 'q' to quit.

Also, there is a PID listed. If you have a rogue process that you can't kill via Force Quit, you can type 'kill 23423' where the number is the PID of the process you want to kill.

For a more OS X-ish approach, open ProcessViewer in the Utilities folder under Applications. This defaults to an update of 30 seconds or so, unlike Top.

I think you'll find that you have more control with Mac OS X...

Once again I'll have to wait to continue the other parts of this discussion... :)
 
OK, seeing as I haven't had a part in this discussion, let me be the first to tell you guys to all calm down and stop saying we aren't reading each others posts. You guys are having a major misunderstanding. Let me clear it up, if I can.

RacerX is correct that you can do the same thing that nkuvu and ksignorini did with Windows Explorer.

And nkuvu and ksignorini are correct that the Mac's list view is not NEARLY as easy as Windows explorer.

I've never used Windows as my main OS, but I can see how nkuvu and ksignorini want this feature in Mac OS X.

With list view (in the Mac OS), you can view the whole hierarchy of your archive, and if you open the correct directories, you can move/copy files to their location with one window. But in almost all cases you will need to do a lot of scrolling while you are dragging the file.

With Windows Explorer (from the screenshots), you can select a directory and see the contents. Then you can browse the hierarchy of your hard drive on the left side while the contents of the selected directory STAY IN VIEW on the right. When you find your destination directory, the target file and the destination folder are right on your screen, and you need to do no scrolling to complete the move/copy.

To reiterate, in the Mac OS, you don't have these two panes, so when you find your destination folder, almost all of the time your target file is way off the screen. So what you have to do is make sure your destination folder is visible in the hierarchy, scroll down, click and hold on the file, and then move the file to the top of the window, waiting for the window to start scrolling so you can get to your destination directory.

Obviously, the Windows explorer way is much easier, and I admit that it WOULD be nice to have this in OS X.

RacerX, we all acknowledge that you can complete a move/copy with one window in the Mac OS. But it's not convenient. That's what nkuvu and ksignorini have been trying to express.

I hope that sorts the problem out. And please, no more flames to each other. It was (hopefully, anyway) a big misunderstanding.
 
Leaving that other stuff behind, nkuvu, the part that really interest me is the full screen idea in general. Let me give you an example that happened a couple weeks ago (and is why this keeps coming to mind). I had a client who, because she was in charge of circulation (and using a PC) was always low priority for getting new equipment. This is a really nice older lady who I really wanted to help out in anyway I could. One day she ask if there was a way of getting a bigger monitor for her system, and one of the older monitors used by the graphic designers had become available. I hooked up the monitor to her system and it worked great, 19" at 1024 x 768. First thing see did was open her circulation app and found that is was now a window sitting on her desktop, and no matter what she tried to do, it would not get any larger than about 800 x 600. She just couldn't work that way, if the app wasn't full screen she didn't know what to do with it. She now has a nice 19" monitor at 800 x 600 so that one app can be run full screen.

That is were the sticking point is for me on that subject, she wanted a better monitor because everyone else had one, but now you can read the text on her screen from across the room. That is the mind set that leaves me wondering.
:confused:
 
simX,

I basically agree with your characterization of the (tech side of) events. I had only stated that my way was productive it me (and nkuvu had said that he found the explorer method productive). Kent got on some sort of this is better than that thing and... you know me, I love a good fight.

Sorry :(
 
All right RacerX, I concede.

Also what simX said is correct--you can't accomplish the actions we were describing _in the same way_ with the Finder--you have to scroll lots. That was the only original point.

I was only a bit ****ed off because of the comments like "completely missed by", etc. This is not very nice and not something I think one should do in conversation. You pushed my buttons here. I appologize for reacting the way I did.

Anyway, I understand the issue with the maximizing and fullscreen apps for Windows users. I've had to support that, too. Weird. And I suppose I suffered from it when I first moved over to the Mac, too. But let me tell you, the smaller windows floating everywhere IS better. I agree with you here RacerX; definately.

Kent!
 
Geez, simX, that's exactly what we've all been saying. Rhetorical question: Why does it take a third party to restate the same things so that everyone understands each other? :)
 
Originally posted by RacerX
Aw, is poor little Kent's feelings hurt. That is so sad... well, not really. Hey, as we say in my country (what does being from a different country have to do with any thing?), if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.



I quote people directly, do not add or detract from their actual arguments. You have posted responses to other people's post (including mine) with your own unique twist on what they actually say (that is a nice way of saying that you misquote others to strengthen your weak arguments). I quote you fully, and only make a point to use your own points correctly. But lets look at some stunning examples of how you can twist what someone has said with some more of your commentary, shall we.



First I wasn't defending the Finder just because it's Apple/Mac, I never said I was nor did I imply it. As I said (but considering your lack of reason and obviously not reading what I or any of the others in this conversation have posted, I guess you missed it), I am quite productive in a number of systems that are not Apple/Mac but use what I find to be more productive method for me (you really should work on that reading comprehension before joining in on a forum like this). I defend only my productivity. Anything else would be pushing my opinion which is what you are doing by implying that I should admit to something that is only your opinion. That, dear sir, is more important.



Again, it is so sad that your so emotional about these things Kent. I'll be sure to let you know when I do start to slander you, but quoting you has worked much better so far. :D

racer x, you are being very unreasonable - i will not argue with you and hope that anyone here will stop arguing with racer x untill he gets some sense back into him.

i was also a windows convert although i've converted 2.5 years ago. i have many friends that have windows, ia also have friends that have mac or both. i agree with some of the issues some windows converts have made here and many of their arguments are very valid. the file manager in windows, while being more complicated for your granny and daddy, is much better for avid computer users like me and obiously many of the pc users out there. i have many times made my point that apple made one of the cheesies - for a lack of a better word - mistakes when they decised to include copy and paste , but no cut feature in the finder. it is fater to cut something and pasted into another location that to navigate through 2 finder views and drag and drop, i'm not dissing drag and drop. drag and drop works fine - in os 9. in os 9 any folder etc that you open a new window opens, thus making ahaving multiple windows on screen easier (note, you can have one window when you click on anything if you click while holdeing the option button down) thus making drag and drop very convenient. there's only one thing i hope, apple develops cut into os 10.2, or better yet, someone makes a menu item for right clicking that shows cut as an option besides the copy and paste function because that might be made abvailable before 10.2.

apples minimalist design is nice for grannys but not for the majority of computer users out there who know their maouse from their keyboard.
 
by Kent
I was only a bit ****ed off because of the comments like "completely missed by", etc. This is not very nice and not something I think one should do in conversation. You pushed my buttons here. I appologize for reacting the way I did.

First, what you did with buc99 was say that he could do something that he actually didn't say he could (remember the read it again, that was not very nice and not something I think one should do in conversation). And you sure seemed like fair game when you started talking about me in the third preson (that was also not very nice and not something I think one should do in conversation). But yes I saw that you had major buttons, and pushed.

And I don't think you need to apologize (at least not to me), I have had more heated debates we people who I consider to be friends (that if someone else attacks, I'll jump in to defend them... like nkuvu).

and from our later comer, vic
racer x, you are being very unreasonable - i will not argue with you and hope that anyone here will stop arguing with racer x until he gets some sense back into him.

The only thing I was saying was the I, personally, like the Finder way better. You can't argue (and I wasn't) opinion about what works best for any given person. Given that, your out of left field personal comment about me makes very little sense. I would ask you to explain were you are coming from (as this is your first post in this thread), but I can see by your vicious attack of the elderly that you too are going to be very unreasonable.

apples minimalist design is nice for grannys but not for the majority of computer users out there who know their maouse from their keyboard.

Important point, your majority is actually a very small minority of those who use computers. Unless someone takes the time to focus on computers, they never learn most of the features. It is intolerance of those who don't make computers their lives which is actually unreasonable, vic.
 
Originally posted by RacerX

Important point, your majority is actually a very small minority of those who use computers. Unless someone takes the time to focus on computers, they never learn most of the features. It is intolerance of those who don't make computers their lives which is actually unreasonable, vic.


1. I don't tollerate people who don't make computers their lives? where u get that form? i think you should drop by the "magic dragon forum" and share abit of you magic dragon axperiences.. ;)
2. I did come a bit late here, and i saw that the debases calmed down a bit, but you kida seemd to lower yourself there for a while which is what i wanted to point out.
3. I think you are a smart guy, but this thread is about opinions, and the argument of opinions so i think pople have the choice here to stand by their opinions and defend them/argue about them.
4. not to be rude or anything, but who asked you wether you like the current setup of the finder in os x? on the smae line, nobody asked me if i like it or not, but functionality walks a fine border between opinion and usabiliy. and i think apple should worry about usability not opinion.
5. i'm sorry if i insulted the "elderly" but arent the elderly supposed to set examples?
6. my minority is the huderds of thousands of kids who use windows 1 - because there is more software for windows, 2 - because it is customizable to hell, 3 - because is has many options and setting to shoose from, 4 - becasue they do spend monst of their time or if not, a significant enough time on their computer to know it, 5 - only people who think the beegees are cool don't know jack about computers. (this is more of a rant than anything significant, but many of the opniions stated here are true when looked at as a whole and generalized to hell)
 
Originally posted by ksignorini


RacerX,

on a Windows machine, you are opening the Windows Explorer, sure. But you are opening THE EXACT SAME PROGRAM when you double-click a folder icon/shortcut on the desktop, when you open "My Computer" or when you open Microsoft Internet Explorer. The difference is that you are opening it with a different VIEW enabled.

This in not true. When you double-click on a folder on the desktop, you are opening Internet Explorer. There is no folder list on the left side like Windows Explorer, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no way to make it visible.

Try this: make a opened folder look just like a Windows Explorer window. You will find it pretty hard, because the desktop opens Internet Explorer, not Windows Explorer.

Now, open the "Favorites" sidebar in the desktop window and go to a webpage in the same window. Can you do that in Windows Explorer?

Chris
 
by vic
1. I don't tollerate people who don't make computers their lives? where u get that form? i think you should drop by the "magic dragon forum" and share abit of you magic dragon axperiences..

Reference:
apples minimalist design is nice for grannys but not for the majority of computer users out there who know their maouse from their keyboard.
and
...the file manager in windows, while being more complicated for your granny and daddy, is much better for avid computer users like me and obiously many of the pc users out there.

That covers that point I think, don't you, vic.

3. I think you are a smart guy, but this thread is about opinions, and the argument of opinions so i think pople have the choice here to stand by their opinions and defend them/argue about them.

Absolutely true, but in the end the productivity issue often has more to do with comfort than anything else. That is why I'm of the mind set to each their own on the subject. I only jumped at the you can't do that when you actually can.

4. not to be rude or anything, but who asked you wether you like the current setup of the finder in os x? on the smae line, nobody asked me if i like it or not, but functionality walks a fine border between opinion and usabiliy. and i think apple should worry about usability not opinion.

Not to be rude, but the subject came up as it became clear that people who argue for the Windows Explorer where doing so because in their opinion they liked it better. I was conceding that my productivity plays a large role in my opinions.

5. i'm sorry if i insulted the "elderly" but arent the elderly supposed to set examples?

They have, by giving us the foundations of the technology that you take for granted today and by finding use in their own way of something that thirty years ago was something they may have been watching people on Star Trek do. Think about how much they thought up as Science Fiction back then which is part of our daily lives today. They have earned the respect that you refuse to show them.

6. my minority is the huderds of thousands of kids who use windows 1 - because there is more software for windows, 2 - because it is customizable to hell, 3 - because is has many options and setting to shoose from, 4 - becasue they do spend monst of their time or if not, a significant enough time on their computer to know it, 5 - only people who think the beegees are cool don't know jack about computers. (this is more of a rant than anything significant, but many of the opniions stated here are true when looked at as a whole and generalized to hell)

I would argue your numbers as they apply to points 2 through 5. The hundreds of thousands of kids who use windows do so to play games, and as most gamers leave their systems painfully default (right down to that awful green background) those points can not be applied. And I can think of a number of people who like the Bee Gees that know more about computers than you (though I would still question their taste in music).
 
"They have, by giving us the foundations of the technology that you take for granted today and by finding use in their own way of something that thirty years ago was something they may have been watching people on Star Trek do. Think about how much they thought up as Science Fiction back then which is part of our daily lives today. They have earned the respect that you refuse to show them. "

So now you tell me waht i take for granted?
 
Boy oh Boy. This all started with Hypernate's complaints about the taskbar and Maximized windows. Now we got a pissin' contest about which is better, "Mac" or "Windows". (Before I start, let me just say thank you Racer X for getting my back while I was away.):)

To all of you who like the "Windows Explorer":
Fine I see your point on how this can be easy to use in one window. But for the crying you all are doing over the "one" window browser, you can open two finder windows to emulate the same thing. Just place them side by side in list view. Make the right finder your source directory and the drill down through the the left finder and drag and drop to your target directory. In Essence you have the same effect as a "one" window file browser with two Finder windows. I understand what you are saying here Racer X, but you got to remember that the filesystem in Windows is arranged slight ly different and this seems to be the "preferential" use of these windows converts. (Not mine either) But the beauty of OSX, and to a lesser extent OS9 and below, is the ability to customize the finder to match a user's needs. I personally hated clickiing on all of those + to drill down a directory. And by the way, if you drill down too many levels, you will most definately be using the scroll bar to get back to that open folder. This is true in both Windows and Macs unless you already have the target file's directory open. But if you have more than one source file located in different directories, you end up right back in the "finder" problem youare complaining of; a whole lot of scrolling go'in on. Enough on that subject.

For those of you who feel you can't maximize your windows:
Yes you can. It is done differenly on macs. By the way I still agree with you Racer X. What is the need? If you click the + button in the top left, the window should theoretically open to the maximum size needed by the app. Key word "needed". I feel this saves me the trouble of having to minimize down the "Maximized" window in Windows so that I can still see the stuff behind.

For those of you who miss the Windows Taskbar:
Read the documentation on how to operate the Dock. This does the same thing plus alot more than Window's taskbar. I won't go into this debate because I've already hit on a few items earlier in the thread.

For vic:
Calm down dude. Either you have a serious spelling problem or you are a horrendous typer like myself when I get fired up. Please proof read a little because I'm having trouble following your posts with all of the spelling errors.

I mean, I don't claim to be a spelling bee champion by any means, but your argument is better served if the audience can understand what you write. By the way, the only time I ever customized my PC was when I used Litestep to replace the Windows gui or when I replaced Windbloze with Linux or FreeBSD. I do have a PC at work, but I only use to open proprietary apps required by my work. (Which is next to never) It does do a good job of collecting dust. It does an even better job of collecting viruses, even when I don't use it.

For those of you that miss cut and paste of the Windows Explorer:
This I agree would be a useful feature in the Finder. I know you can copy and paste. And you can move a file through drag and drop if the target directory is on the same mount. Anyways, I can live without this feature, especially since I do alot of file moving in the terminal.app anyways and rarely use the finder for this task.

Well I hope I have ruffled enough feathers. I would just like to re-iterate my original point:
For every so called "feature" you miss in windows, there seems to be a workaround in a mac. But if there is not, or if you have not figured it out yet, the best feature of OSX is the ability to customize the desktop to match you specific needs. This is not so in Windows, at least nothing significant anyways without the help of third party software like Litestep. Besides, can you run UNIX apps natively on Windows?

Let me step up to the podium one more time:
OSX gives me the ability to run Unix, Machintosh, and Windows apps all on one box. I have never seen that on a PC. (Except maybe under Linux, but I was never able to get the Mac emulator to work correctly and WINE is a pain in the @$$) So give me another Amen! Lets agree that we all use computer for different needs and lets all love one another.

By the way, not being a BeeGees fan myself, they know enough about music to beat out the Beatles with the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack. Just goes to show how sick the seventies were.

Peace.:p
SA
 
Originally posted by ksignorini
(off topic)

Where in Canada, Vic? Are Macs more/less popular where you are in your opinion?

Kent!

i'm not sure that were i am in my opinion is a location...
 
Amen.

But...
If you click the + button in the top left, the window should theoretically open to the maximum size needed by the app.
What I dislike about this is that it often sends the resize widget right off the screen. Zoink! Not just behind the dock (it annoys me that some apps respect the dock (which I prefer) and some don't.) but off the screen. The only way to fix is to un-maximize, which means that the button is useless for that app. I've seen this behavior in IE, OW, iTunes (IIRC), etc. Grr.

And for what it's worth, I never said one side was better. OK, maybe I did. But that'd be Mac. Of course. :D I just indicated that I like the way Explorer has the two panes.

Did anyone say that they like the taskbar more in this thread? If so, I missed it. I don't like the taskbar, love the dock.
 
Check out the image for all of you missing the "Windows Explorer". This is what I was talking about in the earlier post. Look familiar?

SA:p
 

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