If you want 10.1 spoiled for you, read this!

Zaven

Registered
From BS being dished out by various users to the final, cold, hard facts of the legality of d/l'ing unreleased software, I was indeed justified in my criticism.

I've got no probs discussing the ups and downs of a particular software release, but that's the point...RELEASE.

If one user says, "yah, yah, its great, I love it, I've got no problems here" and another one says "man, it crashed like 5 times in a row and I had to fall back to 10.0.4" that's the problem. While the first user's primary concern may have been, can I get on the internet, can I still use Carracho and Hotline in classic, can I play games?.....the second user, possibly a power user may be trying to get some things running that were predicted by Apple developers that would be running, but aren't doing what they're supposed to.

That's why I call these first type of reviews sensationalistic. Opening apps, scrolling this, resizing that...yah, we all know that these features are a given in OS 10.1. Its when we get down and dirty with the apps that we use for both productivity and amusement when we see things start to come together or fall apart.

How do you know what Apple was "using" at MacWorld NY, how do you know that a certain site is REALLY offering 5f24 when in fact it may be a hacked up version of another release. You DON'T, and you WON'T until it is released.

And yes, people like me are going to sit around on our asses and wait for that 10.1 RELEASE, and then I'll talk to you about it.

--Heig Gregorian
 

stizz

gorilla beta tester
I could care less about any of you personally or what ever moral values you all adhere to. To each his own, whatever. I am not the only hypocrite who has posted in this thread.
So it is Illegal? Ok

Who here never does anything illegal? Let that poster cast thy first stone.

Did you ever drink underage? That was illegal. Did you ever drive faster than the posted limit? That was also illegal. Ever smoke a joint in college? Guess what,..that was illegal as well. Ever fudged numbers on your taxes? Set off fireworks? Pay somebody under the table? Download a copyrighted mp3? How about smoke a cuban cigar? Offer your antibiotics to a sick friend? Copy a VHS cassette?
I am not here to admonish anybody for their transgressions. I am here to talk about OS X. More specifically, I am here in this thread to discuss the illegal build that goes by the name puma 5f24. Everybody turn to page 49 in your Mac OS Builds Orientation handbook, take notes,..there will be a pop quiz.

Build 5f24 is working pretty damn well I must admit. I have found very few problems. For 1, the list of cdr drivers isn't all that big yet. That will obvioussly change in time, I have yet to burn anything. Another interesting thing I have noticed is OS X doesn't like to share it's sound manager with classic. In numerous instances (in all the previous builds as well including 10.0.4) A music program will not be able to use sound. My most recent experience with this bug (if thats what it is) is, Reason. (for those unfamiliar with reason, it is a studio application) I hope Apple or Propellerheads software are aware of this conflict.
[disclaimer - The above paragraph was in no way a whine or a bitch, get over yourself already]
In other news, 9.2 seems remarkably stable for classic use. I was using office2001 today with no problem (except the printers, but thats another story) It is certiantly obvious they have improved cross platform networking. I was able to access the company intranet today at work. A feat previously only possible with OS 9 and Dave. Even 10.0.4 wouldn't let me on the intranet. However i was not able to connect to any windoes shares yet. I shall install Dave on this build and report back tommorrow. I was not able to print on the network however,.but I believe that is due to my office having an obscure HP Laserjet model to which there wasnt a driver (of the numerous printer drivers in 10.1) available. Yada yada.
3 days into 10.1 and only 1 kernel panic, which coincidentaly happen while booting up after 9.2 installed,..it has been smooth sailing since. Oh, and one other thing. Do not install fetch on this build. Puma and fetch didnt seem to like each other.


Lastly. I discovered an easy way into root from terminal (if this was already common knowledge, then forgive me)
type sudo su
then password

badabing, badaboom

Until next time kiddies.

And to any preachers out there, don't waste your time. I am beyond saving.:p
 

tenhead

Registered
Originally posted by stizz
I could care less about any of you personally or what ever moral values you all adhere to. To each his own, whatever. I am not the only hypocrite who has posted in this thread.
If you don't care what we think, then why post? You obviously think you have some great insight to share with the world. But your knowledge is ill gained, and you still won't acknowledge that what you do might be harmful to others. Oh, that's right, you just don't care. Scew all those people that you might be hurting.


So it is Illegal? Ok

Who here never does anything illegal? Let that poster cast thy first stone.

Did you ever drink underage? That was illegal. Did you ever drive faster than the posted limit? That was also illegal. Ever smoke a joint in college? Guess what,..that was illegal as well. Ever fudged numbers on your taxes? Set off fireworks? Pay somebody under the table? Download a copyrighted mp3? How about smoke a cuban cigar? Offer your antibiotics to a sick friend? Copy a VHS cassette?
Those analogies don't have relevance in this case, because the issue is not mainly the illegality, but who is being harmed. We're talking about stealing someone else's property. That I don't do. I don't download copyrighted MP3s and I don't copy VHS cassettes. I know better. Yes, those cross my ethical boundaries. Especially since I make a living writing software, and I am a musician, so I would never steal anything from people that I can relate to - I wouldn't want anyone to steal my work. Would you?

I am not here to admonish anybody for their transgressions. I am here to talk about OS X. More specifically, I am here in this thread to discuss the illegal build that goes by the name puma 5f24.
And somehow, that is OK to you. Well then, don't be surprised if ethical people choose to admonish you when you do something that many others believe may harm the company that they feel so strongly about. I want to see Apple do well. And when I see someone threaten that, I will speak up.

Until next time kiddies.

And to any preachers out there, don't waste your time. I am beyond saving.:p
Who's calling who a kiddie? Maybe some day you'll grow up, form some ethics of your own, and take responsibility for your actions. Hopefully you won't hurt anyone else until that day comes. I know that I wouldn't hire you into my Engineering group until you could show a little more maturity and a lot more respect for others.
 

Fahrvergnuugen

I am the law!
He's telling us how fast 10.1 is going to be. We're all excited about it. You're taking credit away from his posts because he got an unfinished developer seed of OSX on a warez site?! Big deal!

Who cares? I have a copy of every build of OSX since DP3. That doesn't mean that I don't buy the official copy from Apple when it comes out. I want to see this stuff before I buy it...it's too damn exciting.
 

uoba

Re: member
Some of you are of a high-moral nature and denounce the use of unauthorised software, some of you tend to disregard corporate legality.

I am of both views, when it suits me and my company. For, if I developed my company by the book for the last 3 years, I wouldn't be in business anymore.

Equally, we know that we have a moral obligation to pay for services rendered.

Just one quick question that has always bugged me:

Do software companies (Apple, Adobe, etc.) willingly put these "builds" out as so they can record users views and opinions, a sort of product usability research?;)
 

endian

Dis Member
He's telling us how fast 10.1 is going to be.
He's telling us how fast he experienced whatever build he found on hotline to be. The final release could be faster, it could be slower. It's meaningless to judge.

In numerous instances (in all the previous builds as well including 10.0.4) A music program will not be able to use sound. My most recent experience with this bug (if thats what it is) is, Reason. (for those unfamiliar with reason, it is a studio application) I hope Apple or Propellerheads software are aware of this conflict.
Propellerheads software very well may not be aware of it. In case you're not aware, Apple has cut back drastically on OS seeding to all but the largest developers, due to all the leaks. These are exactly the people you're hurting most - the small/shareware developers who are typically the Mac's strongest supporters. If they (we) don't get seeds to test against until the last minute, or at all, it obviously delays the release of software that supports the new OS. People complain that OSX software has been so slow in coming - here's one reason.

Case in point - the Dockling API has undergone substantial changes in 10.1 (as demonstrated at MWNY.) Any dockling you're using now will probably have to at least be recompiled to work at all under the new version. If developers don't get a chance to do that before release, it'll have to be done after release, and you all will have to wait.

Anyway, I've said all I'm going to say on the subject. Have fun.
 

Fahrvergnuugen

I am the law!
He's telling us how fast he experienced whatever build he found on hotline to be. The final release could be faster, it could be slower. It's meaningless to judge.
I can't believe you have time to sit here and nit pick every little thing that everyone says. We all want to know if 10.1 is as fast as it was during the key note. That's the point. How can this be meaningless to judge? Are you suggesting that Apple would change the code to make the final release of 10.1 slower than 5f24?

You're not making sense. Any normal person who doesn't try to call people on technicalities all day long just to prove a point would understand the original point of this thread. You're nose is bent outta shape because you have morals about stealing software, so you spout fallacies of irrelevance. You're just wasting my time.
 

tenhead

Registered
Originally posted by Fahrvergnuugen


Are you suggesting that Apple would change the code to make the final release of 10.1 slower than 5f24?

You're not making sense. Any normal person who doesn't try to call people on technicalities all day long just to prove a point would understand the original point of this thread. You're nose is bent outta shape because you have morals about stealing software, so you spout fallacies of irrelevance. You're just wasting my time.
It's not a waste of your time, you just don't know it yet. You are the one that doesn't understand. Instead of attacking, maybe asking the poster 'why' they said what they said might extend the information exchange instead of shutting it down.

It is entirely possible that a build can get slower as it goes final. As final builds and shipping deadlines approach sometimes you need to do unexpected things to get the code to be stable. Some seemingly simple problem can turn out to expose a design problem that requires significant last minute hoop jumping to 'fix'. You might say this is the case with the current Finder, where they unwittingly slowed it down significantly from the 9.x Finder, because some of the early design decisions turned out to be wrong, but it was too late in the development cycle to make the necessary changes before final shipment.

I'm not saying this is going to be the case for 10.1, but no-one on this board has the information they need right now to really know what tradeoffs are being made by the development team. My fear would be that since everybody is so focused on Speed, that Stability may suffer. To me, stability is generally more important.
 

stizz

gorilla beta tester
Originally posted by endian


Propellerheads software very well may not be aware of it. In case you're not aware, Apple has cut back drastically on OS seeding to all but the largest developers, due to all the leaks. These are exactly the people you're hurting most - the small/shareware developers who are typically the Mac's strongest supporters. If they (we) don't get seeds to test against until the last minute, or at all, it obviously delays the release of software that supports the new OS. People complain that OSX software has been so slow in coming - here's one reason.

Case in point - the Dockling API has undergone substantial changes in 10.1 (as demonstrated at MWNY.) Any dockling you're using now will probably have to at least be recompiled to work at all under the new version. If developers don't get a chance to do that before release, it'll have to be done after release, and you all will have to wait.

Anyway, I've said all I'm going to say on the subject. Have fun.
I'm sure Propellerheads (read Steinberg) was given a seed. If not I'm sure they were as resourceful as I was. Hell I'm in the seed program myself, and I never get Seeds, yet I'm aware of these bugs. So try again.

As for the Dockling API, you may be onto something there. The only dockling that I use, is the battery monitor. For some reason, it was not included with this build. I HAd to copy it over from my backup disks. It works fine. I am puzzled why it was not included. Surely it will be come Sept.

A liitle more on Fetch, It installs fine,..but when you try and use it, it crashes, then remains on your dock. Cant force quit it,. (doesn't show as running) cant drag it out of the dock either. It just stays there. I wonder if that has anything to do with the dockling API. Logging out then back in was the only way I could get rid of it.

Yada yada, I'm off to install Office X beta 5 on my system and will let yall know how it works out.,

Did I mention how FAST this build is?!? WOw
 

senne

Registered
aaaaaaaah SHUT UP!

All the file sharing-applications, like carracho, hotline, mactella...,---> www.zeropaid.com

Keep on tripping! And be as much illegal you can!
 

foo

Registered
I think we all work according to our own value sets. Personally I do my best to legally own everything I use, at personal cost. But I do find carracho an immensely valuable tool, to transfer files and discuss issues with friends and colleagues.

Sadly, people need to look at the hole they are digging for themselves - we already do not have enough developers for our beloved machines. Scott Kevil produced a mapping tool for Quake on mac a while ago, he probably would do so again if people paid for it instead of pirated it. Instead he has no interest in developing the tool because of cr@p moral policies of some of the mac "faithful", so we are stuck without an editor, begging others to port it.

If you consider yourself a mac supporter, then support it financially as well as verbally.

If the 20 $ for OS X 1 too much, then at least consider the longterm implications of piracy, and prepare yourself for a windows world, because you will be responsible for putting Apple out of business.
 

stizz

gorilla beta tester
Originally posted by foo
I think we all work according to our own value sets. Personally I do my best to legally own everything I use, at personal cost. But I do find carracho an immensely valuable tool, to transfer files and discuss issues with friends and colleagues.

Sadly, people need to look at the hole they are digging for themselves - we already do not have enough developers for our beloved machines. Scott Kevil produced a mapping tool for Quake on mac a while ago, he probably would do so again if people paid for it instead of pirated it. Instead he has no interest in developing the tool because of cr@p moral policies of some of the mac "faithful", so we are stuck without an editor, begging others to port it.

If you consider yourself a mac supporter, then support it financially as well as verbally.
Originally posted by foo

If the 20 $ for OS X 1 too much, then at least consider the longterm implications of piracy, and prepare yourself for a windows world, because you will be responsible for putting Apple out of business.
Fact. Piracy is rampant in the world our pc using brethren dwell in. Has been for years. Will be for years to come regardless of proposed counter-measures. They are in no short supply of developers.


Apple piracy has also been rampant for years. Not quite to the extremes that the PC world knows, but virulent still. Apple is not dead. And the day apple does go the way of the amiga, will be the day the of the cult of personality that is Apple( That's Mr. Jobs to you) finally drowns us all with inanity and asthetic centering ( will he not be happy until even the keyboard is mere keys in a straight line [ q, a, z, etc...]).


Enter the new world of open source on the Mac Horizon.
Apps needed to run on our new OS can simply be edited and recompiled.

No,..the sky is not falling chicken little.
 

tenhead

Registered
Originally posted by stizz


Apple piracy has also been rampant for years. Not quite to the extremes that the PC world knows, but virulent still. Apple is not dead. And the day apple does go the way of the amiga, will be the day the of the cult of personality that is Apple( That's Mr. Jobs to you) finally drowns us all with inanity and asthetic centering ( will he not be happy until even the keyboard is mere keys in a straight line [ q, a, z, etc...]).

Enter the new world of open source on the Mac Horizon.
Apps needed to run on our new OS can simply be edited and recompiled.

No,..the sky is not falling chicken little.
Yeah, crime is all over the place. They rob our mothers and rape our sisters. What you are suggesting in your ridiculous 'new world' is that we all just give up and let it all happen. A free for all where anyone does whatever they want because of some delusion of a 'cause', and because there's supposedly nothing that can be done about it.

That's pure crap. You are rationalizing to support your personal position, because you don't know to how to succeed in life without taking advantage of others. You have nothing to add to a fair discussion - all you can do is post information that is ill-gotten and stand up like a big-shot and say "I have information that no-one else has. Aren't I cool."

No, you're not cool. You're a jerk. You threaten what I, and others, have worked hard to attain. You should be stopped.

If you don't like the way Apple has chosen to compete, then don't use their products. Noone is forcing you to use a Mac. If you want a 'pure' open system then go play with Linux. Apple never said their system was free and purely open. That's your private fantasy.

Before Jobs returned to Apple, the sky *was* just about to fall. He came in, with his vision and plan, and has done fairly well at bringing the company back from the edge. His plan is a matter of balance. It is his plan to use FreeBSD as the core of OS X. It is also his plan to make the company succeed where others have failed. If you think you have a better plan, than take it to the Apple Board of Directors and lay it out. But I doubt anyone would take you seriously, because your ideas are full of holes.

I have chosen to support the Mac. The way to do that is to subscribe to Apple's rules as far as NDAs and cost structure. I, and others are more than willing to do that because we feel that is the best way to succeed in the current market.

If you don't like that plan, than go play somewhere else. But again, you have *no right* to get in my way and ruin what I am working for. It will be a great day why Apple finds out who you are and they revoke any supposed Seeding priviledges that they have unwittingly allowed you to have.
 

kilowatt

mach-o mach-o man
Originally posted by stizz

Did you ever drink underage? That was illegal. Did you ever drive faster than the posted limit? That was also illegal. Ever smoke a joint in college? Guess what,..that was illegal as well. Ever fudged numbers on your taxes? Set off fireworks? Pay somebody under the table? Download a copyrighted mp3? How about smoke a cuban cigar? Offer your antibiotics to a sick friend? Copy a VHS cassette?

Did you ever kill some one? Well, that was illegal. Have you ever raped some one? That was illegal, too. Have you ever burned someone's house down? Illegal, too. Commited wire fraud? Also illegal. Stolen someone's car? Illegal.

Fact is, people do illegal things. And while I can't say I've done the above, I know people do (I watch the news).

But just because people do illegal things doesn't mean that its ok to do now.

Lots of high school students have sex. I don't support doing that, despite its popularity.

And, lots of people pirate software.

Anyone who does these things knows they do something illegal. (Some people don't and they are called phycopaths or something, and thats another thread...)

It defines one as immoral when knowningly, they do something wrong.

If you can live with your self knowing that what you do is wrong, I pitty you.

However, it is the ability to change. The ability to become more than thought-less apes, that seperates us from the animal world.

If a life of anarchy and impulsive immoral behavior suits you, then so be it.

A sin is a sin. Its popularity, severity, and complexities aside. To know wrong and do wrong is a shallow thing. And to believe that it is ok is simply stunning.

Stizz, do you look at your life as a story - a history - or as a photo, still and single-framed?

I emplore you to look beyond popularity, fame, and selfishness.

What is popular is not allways right, and whats right is not allways popular.

I've done my share of wrong things. Let there be no mistake. But with each mistake, I learn more about myself and humanity.

For we are not merely circuts. We don't simply run our course of life and then become disabled units. There is more to the human life than is tangible, and for that I live.
 

stizz

gorilla beta tester
This astounds me. I am being psychoanalyzed here in this thread now. Unfuckinbeliveable.

Do any of you feel better now that you have chastised me?

Better yet, how the hell am I supposed to respond.

[bitter sarcasm]
I am so sorry everybody. How could I have not known the errors of my ways. Is the damage I've caused with my selfishness repairable? Will we all survive this ghastly mess that I have created? I went and threw all the cdr's I possess of pirated media (OS Builds and Nintendo Roms alike) and threw them in the microwave. They will never hurt anybody ever again. I even reformated all 12 of my hard drives with 1's and 0's to prevent my weak willed being from attempting to retrieve the deleted files. I then threw my cd burner into the swimming pool for good measure. I want to thank everybody for their concern. If you all hadn't been here, god only knows what I would have done next.
[/bitter sarcasm]

Like hell.

I can honestly appreciate some of the genuine concern for my soul and well being by certian posters. I am not an animal. But enough already.

What was the title of this thread anyway . "A lynching for stizz" ?
"Persecute the heritic" ? "Anatomy of a Pirate 101" ?


NO

This thread is about 10.1 and experimentation with pre release builds. I would beg kindly that the petty BS stop now. If you don't like the content of this thread, then don't read it. There are plenty of other threads for you to read. If you do not like my attitude or my lack of moral fibre, please refrain from mentioning it. I will no longer respond to any provocation.

sigh

Now I'm too spent to report on my latest findings with 5f24. It would seem the facists in this thread have won this round.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

zerorex

Registered
A few posts ago, shithead, oops, i mean tenhead said that the people who are hurt when we download illegal builds are the small developers who dont get seed builds because apple wishes to cut down on leaks.... hum...

ok, so what you are saying is that it is my fault that some small developer out there decided to leak his seed build... even though, I did not ask him for it, I did not try to bribe him, hell, I dont even know who he is. But still you maintain that I have in some way damaged this developer by downloading the software he CHOSE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL to leak...

humm....
 

kilowatt

mach-o mach-o man
So I guess if you easily stole a car, it would be ther person who left the window down's fault?

Come on! You still made the choice, too.

Besides, those leeked builds might be from accidents. Its also possable, though not likely, that apple intentionally leeks pre-public builds, just to get a reacton from people like us.

And macosx.com is more than just tech threads.
 
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