It all opens in the wrong browser
- Thread starter wdw_
- Start date
I know this will sound very provocatory..adn people will fight against this..but ..HEY why being so MAD to M$??
I mean.. i know why ..but they made some really good product as well
I ma referring to Office X..abslutely gorgeous
IE ...well.. that you like it or not..IT'S the standard..and is great
Flight Simulator.. i remember my PC years..and flight sim was AWESOME
Now.. being against M$..is fine.. but some product are good... so sto wining...and use them...and if you don't use them only because you don't like who makes it... well.. you don't know what u re missing
I mean.. i know why ..but they made some really good product as well
I ma referring to Office X..abslutely gorgeous
IE ...well.. that you like it or not..IT'S the standard..and is great
Flight Simulator.. i remember my PC years..and flight sim was AWESOME
Now.. being against M$..is fine.. but some product are good... so sto wining...and use them...and if you don't use them only because you don't like who makes it... well.. you don't know what u re missing
dricci
Registered
Uh.. IE is a Standard? IE BREAKS the standards and forces people to use it. The more who use it, the more non-standard sites show up and I don't want to see the Internet exploited like that. I want to be able to view a web page in a browser of my choice, not be forced to use IE. Number of users does not make something a standard, my friend.
As for Office, it's a waste of money. It's over priced and has security holes up to wazoo. It's used to leverage Microsoft's monopoly power higher. And since they're a monopoly and own you once you use it, they don't have to rush to make it better. They can take their time with bug fixes and security updates. They don't have to care because they got you by the balls. There are many alternatives that are free or better.
And yes, I do know what I'm missing. Security holes and exploitation of standards. I think I'll pass on that, thanks.
As for Office, it's a waste of money. It's over priced and has security holes up to wazoo. It's used to leverage Microsoft's monopoly power higher. And since they're a monopoly and own you once you use it, they don't have to rush to make it better. They can take their time with bug fixes and security updates. They don't have to care because they got you by the balls. There are many alternatives that are free or better.
And yes, I do know what I'm missing. Security holes and exploitation of standards. I think I'll pass on that, thanks.
Well i wanna FIRST remember.. this is not a fight.. but..
1) if you hate M$.. fine i do to
2) If you don't wanna use their product....fine you dont know what u re missing (not all of them ... but some are very worthed)
Office......well is great.. and .. i mean it ..is great... Appleworks.. i am sorry to say that ... but kinda sucks for now.
IE is the stnadard and it follows W3C rules....actually ..bneing honest as web designer i have to say that is a pleasure to design pages for IE, while it is a pain in the butt to design..let's say for Netscape... 4.7 OR 6.
ll other browsers are usually easy to design as well...
I dunno if some people here are payed by Mozilla to advertize, but i have to say..even though they re good.. they re not complete..Chimera for example..GREAT piece of software... but faaaaar waaay far from completion...
Once again.. i don't care who makes it ..as far as it makes the job... and M$ sometimes does the job right.. i don't care aout a monopoly or stuff like that.. i care about getting my job done fast easily and with the least effortpossible, and i will Addmit.. M$ sometimes (underlined ..SOMETIMES) for me is the best choice...
1) if you hate M$.. fine i do to
2) If you don't wanna use their product....fine you dont know what u re missing (not all of them ... but some are very worthed)
Office......well is great.. and .. i mean it ..is great... Appleworks.. i am sorry to say that ... but kinda sucks for now.
IE is the stnadard and it follows W3C rules....actually ..bneing honest as web designer i have to say that is a pleasure to design pages for IE, while it is a pain in the butt to design..let's say for Netscape... 4.7 OR 6.
ll other browsers are usually easy to design as well...
I dunno if some people here are payed by Mozilla to advertize, but i have to say..even though they re good.. they re not complete..Chimera for example..GREAT piece of software... but faaaaar waaay far from completion...
Once again.. i don't care who makes it ..as far as it makes the job... and M$ sometimes does the job right.. i don't care aout a monopoly or stuff like that.. i care about getting my job done fast easily and with the least effortpossible, and i will Addmit.. M$ sometimes (underlined ..SOMETIMES) for me is the best choice...
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
I use Office X every day. It's a nice piece of software. A little expensive, but still, it's a well-rounded package.
I use IE, too, because I do web design, and I know that most people out there use IE... so, I have to make sure the web sites I create are viewable by the majority. I use OmniWeb for my personal surfing.
I'd like to know how many Microsoft-haters were actually die-hard Microsoft-haters before this whole monopoly thing was brought to everyone's attention. How many people hated Microsoft with the passion they do now 5 years ago?
It's like "post"-support... "after-the-fact"-support. Similar to 9-11. Where was everyone's patriotism on 9-10? Where was that flag decal on your car on 9-10? Isn't the whole premise of support CONSTANT support? It's like we're being "fair-weather" friends to our country. One minute, we're bitching about how the laws suck and government is corrupt, then the next minute, those same people are flying flags and getting all emotional about living in "the greatest country in the world." On that note, I mean, once a Microsoft-hater, always a Microsoft-hater, but don't start hating just because they're being tried for illegal activities. Hate them for a better reason. Hate them for your own reasons. Make up some reasons. Think for yourself -- you use a Macintosh, act like it, dammit! It angers and frustrates me that people jump on the bandwagon so easily just because it's popular to do so, make a HUGE deal out of the whole thing, then move on to the next big thing after the attention has died out. Pathetic.
I use IE, too, because I do web design, and I know that most people out there use IE... so, I have to make sure the web sites I create are viewable by the majority. I use OmniWeb for my personal surfing.
I'd like to know how many Microsoft-haters were actually die-hard Microsoft-haters before this whole monopoly thing was brought to everyone's attention. How many people hated Microsoft with the passion they do now 5 years ago?
It's like "post"-support... "after-the-fact"-support. Similar to 9-11. Where was everyone's patriotism on 9-10? Where was that flag decal on your car on 9-10? Isn't the whole premise of support CONSTANT support? It's like we're being "fair-weather" friends to our country. One minute, we're bitching about how the laws suck and government is corrupt, then the next minute, those same people are flying flags and getting all emotional about living in "the greatest country in the world." On that note, I mean, once a Microsoft-hater, always a Microsoft-hater, but don't start hating just because they're being tried for illegal activities. Hate them for a better reason. Hate them for your own reasons. Make up some reasons. Think for yourself -- you use a Macintosh, act like it, dammit! It angers and frustrates me that people jump on the bandwagon so easily just because it's popular to do so, make a HUGE deal out of the whole thing, then move on to the next big thing after the attention has died out. Pathetic.
rezba
simpleutilisateurpuissant
2 little things to say :
Office is great ? Compares to what ? Appleworks never intend to be at the level Office is. When Corel or Sun will be able to carbonized their suit, we'll talk about that. For the moment, Office is great because we don't know anything else on our macs.
For the rest, take a look at this :
http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16192
Office is great ? Compares to what ? Appleworks never intend to be at the level Office is. When Corel or Sun will be able to carbonized their suit, we'll talk about that. For the moment, Office is great because we don't know anything else on our macs.
For the rest, take a look at this :
http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16192
dricci
Registered
Why not run your sites thru a standards checker and make sure you're using Standard HTML? It should look good in all browsers if you do, at least that's what I do when I design my sites.
And I'm a Microsoft hater because of an example you gave - the "majority use ie so i have to make my site in that" attitude. There are standards, if you follow them, then it should look right in every browser. I don't care what the majority uses. I want the freedom to use *any* browser of my choice (as long as the browser itself complies to standards) and view a page correectly. I don't want to see IE only code and other nonsense.
I dislike illegal monopolies the same way I hate murderers. They break the law, so why should I support them?
In case you haven't noticed: Microsoft wants to control everything on every computer in the WORLD and UNIVERSE. I am acting like a Mac user, I want to protect my platform by not supporting this monopoly! What is wrong with me not wanting to support an illegal monopoly who wants me to run what they have only and their way only?
And how can you compare 9-11-01 to Microsoft? Before 9-11 sure, people complained that the government is corupt and stuff, and it still is, but people realized how good they have it that they are allowed to complain and not shot for saying the wrong things on TV or expressing an opinion that may be different than the governments.
Before the monopoly stuff, not many people hated Microsoft like they do now, except a lot of Mac users because of the whole "Oops we stole your GUI" thing. But after the Monopoly came to light, a lot of people saw the truth of what they were doing to try to take over every computer in the world with IE and put competators out of business. I don't really see anything the same with these two subjects. The only reason Microsoft still supports the Mac is because they can use it in their monopoly defense and because they can make a buck. Once they get .NET services onto everybody's personal computer and everbody's server, including the US Government's, then they own EVERYTHING and will dump Mac development. They'll own standards, they'll own servers, they'll own your kids homework word document, they'll own your e-mail.
You don't think it'll happen? Let's keep coding for IE and buying proprietary products and media formats, and letting them get away with buying off the feds, and we'll see what 100% of all computer devices run and are owned by down the road. Chances are it'll be Microsoft and Windows.
Sorry, but I can't and I won't let that happen. It's my duty as an American in a free land to make sure we stay that way - Free, as in, not controlled by the Government and Corporations. I don't want my kids one day to ask me "What was it like before Microsoft owned the world?"
And I'm a Microsoft hater because of an example you gave - the "majority use ie so i have to make my site in that" attitude. There are standards, if you follow them, then it should look right in every browser. I don't care what the majority uses. I want the freedom to use *any* browser of my choice (as long as the browser itself complies to standards) and view a page correectly. I don't want to see IE only code and other nonsense.
I dislike illegal monopolies the same way I hate murderers. They break the law, so why should I support them?
In case you haven't noticed: Microsoft wants to control everything on every computer in the WORLD and UNIVERSE. I am acting like a Mac user, I want to protect my platform by not supporting this monopoly! What is wrong with me not wanting to support an illegal monopoly who wants me to run what they have only and their way only?
And how can you compare 9-11-01 to Microsoft? Before 9-11 sure, people complained that the government is corupt and stuff, and it still is, but people realized how good they have it that they are allowed to complain and not shot for saying the wrong things on TV or expressing an opinion that may be different than the governments.
Before the monopoly stuff, not many people hated Microsoft like they do now, except a lot of Mac users because of the whole "Oops we stole your GUI" thing. But after the Monopoly came to light, a lot of people saw the truth of what they were doing to try to take over every computer in the world with IE and put competators out of business. I don't really see anything the same with these two subjects. The only reason Microsoft still supports the Mac is because they can use it in their monopoly defense and because they can make a buck. Once they get .NET services onto everybody's personal computer and everbody's server, including the US Government's, then they own EVERYTHING and will dump Mac development. They'll own standards, they'll own servers, they'll own your kids homework word document, they'll own your e-mail.
You don't think it'll happen? Let's keep coding for IE and buying proprietary products and media formats, and letting them get away with buying off the feds, and we'll see what 100% of all computer devices run and are owned by down the road. Chances are it'll be Microsoft and Windows.
Sorry, but I can't and I won't let that happen. It's my duty as an American in a free land to make sure we stay that way - Free, as in, not controlled by the Government and Corporations. I don't want my kids one day to ask me "What was it like before Microsoft owned the world?"
phatsharpie
Futuristic Robotic Cat
I am so sick of hearing "web developers" complain how Mozilla and Netscape don't follow the "standard" and what they mean by standard is Internet Explorer!
Internet Explorer is NOT the standard!!! Plain and simple. Don't get me wrong, IE is MUCH more W3C compliant than Netscape 4.x (which is a HORRIBLE browser to develop for IMHO), but is no where close to Mozilla/NS6.
To make DHTML work on both IE5+ and Mozilla is NOT HARD! Heck, you can even use the same syntax to get objects (getElementById) on both IE5.5 and Mozilla! So the codes are completely compatible. There are some differences b/w the CSS, but these are usually pretty minute. Sure, if you want to use bleeding edge code, sure, you'll run into issues, but you'll run into issues even b/w IE versions. Stop complaining about how NOT everyone is using IE. It is a VERY GOOD THING that not everyone is using IE. That was the spirit of the Internet, remember? A place where people can share information? A place where we can all communicate even if a nuclear bomb takes off half the nation?
Cross platform coding is not that hard! It's a good thing. Use it!
-B
Internet Explorer is NOT the standard!!! Plain and simple. Don't get me wrong, IE is MUCH more W3C compliant than Netscape 4.x (which is a HORRIBLE browser to develop for IMHO), but is no where close to Mozilla/NS6.
To make DHTML work on both IE5+ and Mozilla is NOT HARD! Heck, you can even use the same syntax to get objects (getElementById) on both IE5.5 and Mozilla! So the codes are completely compatible. There are some differences b/w the CSS, but these are usually pretty minute. Sure, if you want to use bleeding edge code, sure, you'll run into issues, but you'll run into issues even b/w IE versions. Stop complaining about how NOT everyone is using IE. It is a VERY GOOD THING that not everyone is using IE. That was the spirit of the Internet, remember? A place where people can share information? A place where we can all communicate even if a nuclear bomb takes off half the nation?
Cross platform coding is not that hard! It's a good thing. Use it!
-B
he he he ...lol...grampa... you won't believe it.. but we still have a good choice-..
There is all the PC world.. then the Apple, than the SGI, the Sun and talking about OS-... there is still plenty of Linux and UNIX there are the Mac OS and the Windowze.... i believe there is still a bunch of choice...problem is..what someone seems to miss....COMPATIBILITY..and ABOVE ALL...STandard...that ..even if evil..makes OUR lives better...like IE in it's own way..makes our lifes better, knowing what the majriry of people uses, makes us designer able to make the best design for the most of the majority of the people... this does NOT mean that we don't care about the others... but it makes our job easier to get FIRST the TARGET audience cause that is what BUSINESS IS ALLABOUT reaching the MASS reaching the BIG PROTION of people...reaching THOSE WHO USE what they have cause they don't know better..but still that they wat it or not ... i am not saying is good...but that is WHAT we DESIGNER have to think aboout and use for our OWN benefit...
Design with less effort and with the MAX profit...if that means USING M$...well...i am for it... if that means BSD.. i am on.. if it means LINUX...i am there as well... but i will always chose what is best for my job and to reach the TARGET AUDIENCE....and Dricci(sorry if i always pick you..lol) ether you like it or NOT but MOST of the people uses IE....you must consider it at least to check if everything woks right....programs might tell you if the code is right... but if you don't try it.. you' ll never be sre on how your users will see your thoughts..........may be is worth AT LEAST a peek....and...again as El Diable said.. stop wining for a MONOPOLY thing....start doing the right thing for YOUR USERS...they are the one that counts... i wish a world with only Mozzilla's ..... till then.. i ll keep using IE....then again.. would we want a Mozzilla's monopoly??? wouldn't it be the same only with another name???
There is all the PC world.. then the Apple, than the SGI, the Sun and talking about OS-... there is still plenty of Linux and UNIX there are the Mac OS and the Windowze.... i believe there is still a bunch of choice...problem is..what someone seems to miss....COMPATIBILITY..and ABOVE ALL...STandard...that ..even if evil..makes OUR lives better...like IE in it's own way..makes our lifes better, knowing what the majriry of people uses, makes us designer able to make the best design for the most of the majority of the people... this does NOT mean that we don't care about the others... but it makes our job easier to get FIRST the TARGET audience cause that is what BUSINESS IS ALLABOUT reaching the MASS reaching the BIG PROTION of people...reaching THOSE WHO USE what they have cause they don't know better..but still that they wat it or not ... i am not saying is good...but that is WHAT we DESIGNER have to think aboout and use for our OWN benefit...
Design with less effort and with the MAX profit...if that means USING M$...well...i am for it... if that means BSD.. i am on.. if it means LINUX...i am there as well... but i will always chose what is best for my job and to reach the TARGET AUDIENCE....and Dricci(sorry if i always pick you..lol) ether you like it or NOT but MOST of the people uses IE....you must consider it at least to check if everything woks right....programs might tell you if the code is right... but if you don't try it.. you' ll never be sre on how your users will see your thoughts..........may be is worth AT LEAST a peek....and...again as El Diable said.. stop wining for a MONOPOLY thing....start doing the right thing for YOUR USERS...they are the one that counts... i wish a world with only Mozzilla's ..... till then.. i ll keep using IE....then again.. would we want a Mozzilla's monopoly??? wouldn't it be the same only with another name???
dricci
Registered
How could a standards following browser be a monopoly? If it's standard following browser, than you can still use any browser and a standards following page will look right.
I don't care what is easier. Follow standards and it works for everyone.
You speak like a true Microsoft businessman. "ITS ALL ABOUT MAKING MUNEY FOR THA MAJURITY!"
I don't care what is easier. Follow standards and it works for everyone.
You speak like a true Microsoft businessman. "ITS ALL ABOUT MAKING MUNEY FOR THA MAJURITY!"
dricci
Registered
Faster and Easier? Ok...
I don't care to go into this anymore. Microsoft just has some people brainwashed wayyy to far. I guess people don't care about their freedom of choice of browser on the Internet or standards anymore. Whatever's easier for the "audience."
Seems like you'd get a wider audience if you let everyone in, though.
I don't care to go into this anymore. Microsoft just has some people brainwashed wayyy to far. I guess people don't care about their freedom of choice of browser on the Internet or standards anymore. Whatever's easier for the "audience."
Seems like you'd get a wider audience if you let everyone in, though.
dricci
Registered
For today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure ideology. Where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thought is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one people. With one will. One resolve. One cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death. And we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail!
Koelling
I Think Different
What myself and many others are arguing here is that Microsoft is evil, and that evil stems from it being designed to be incompatible with other browsers.
Let me quote myself, "designed to be incompatible with other browsers." Just like .net is designed to be like java, only incompatible so that they have control. XBox anyone? Afraid of losing control of the gaming market they threw together this heap of metal. Just like WMA and AVI and so many other technologies that Microsoft supposedly "improved" when actually they just made it clumsier and buggy.
There are tons of reasons to hate Microsoft. I admit there are a couple reasons to like them but if you believe selling your privacy is worth those things then I hope you are at least doing so with full knowledge of it.
i have to say.. THIS IS NOT A FIGHT.. i made 2 post without it..and it's time to remember it before someone gets mad....
1) I am not working for nor advertizing M$
2) Without money the Think Different would not get far (and we all know that a business is a business.. Dricci accusing me of wanting money.. Apple WANTS money ..they don't do computer to occupy time neither to piss M$ orff nor for the pleasure of making them ...and neither to be different....Apple Makes BUSINESS and wants to get MONEY...M$ is NOT the only one wanting money...)
3) I am NOT selling My prvacy.. my files are safe...even if i use M$ product that DOES NOT mean they can get my files... cause we all know there are protections and stuff like that to make our stuff safe...
4) I am for Apple... i live thanks them (cause i work and make my money thanks to a MAC)
5) I am an Apple Seeder, i would NEVER ever sell my soul to M$... i JUST like FEW products...and i am PISSED off that people complain about them ONLY and i UNDERLINE ONLY cause they re made by M$
6) EVEN Jobs and ALL Appleìs rep SAID that M$ is a GOOD thing for the MAC business, REMEMBER THAT THOSE GUYS AT APPLE HELPED M$ developing OFFICE.
7) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
8) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
9) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
10) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
DID i mention that THIS IS NOT A FIGHT?
well.... if you still don 't like M$ product cause they re made BY M$ and ONLYcause of that.. well.. go see a psyciatric..cause you probably need it..
)
1) I am not working for nor advertizing M$
2) Without money the Think Different would not get far (and we all know that a business is a business.. Dricci accusing me of wanting money.. Apple WANTS money ..they don't do computer to occupy time neither to piss M$ orff nor for the pleasure of making them ...and neither to be different....Apple Makes BUSINESS and wants to get MONEY...M$ is NOT the only one wanting money...)
3) I am NOT selling My prvacy.. my files are safe...even if i use M$ product that DOES NOT mean they can get my files... cause we all know there are protections and stuff like that to make our stuff safe...
4) I am for Apple... i live thanks them (cause i work and make my money thanks to a MAC)
5) I am an Apple Seeder, i would NEVER ever sell my soul to M$... i JUST like FEW products...and i am PISSED off that people complain about them ONLY and i UNDERLINE ONLY cause they re made by M$
6) EVEN Jobs and ALL Appleìs rep SAID that M$ is a GOOD thing for the MAC business, REMEMBER THAT THOSE GUYS AT APPLE HELPED M$ developing OFFICE.
7) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
8) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
9) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
10) THIS IS NOT A FIGHT
DID i mention that THIS IS NOT A FIGHT?
well.... if you still don 't like M$ product cause they re made BY M$ and ONLYcause of that.. well.. go see a psyciatric..cause you probably need it..
)