Mac Mini as a server ?

michaelsanford

Translator, Web Developer
I was thinking that since the Mac Mini is so cheap (and I get an educational discount to boot) and beats the heck out of my Dell 200 MHz that I might get two : one for my desktop with Panther and one as a server with plain old Darwin and no GUI.

Is that rediculous ?

Is the Mac Mini going to go the way of the Cube G4 ? :rolleyes:
 
Why wouldn't it be a good server? It would be great if you don't have very high serving needs. Not so great if you're Jeff Bezos.

BTW, the educational discount is all of $20.
 
Here's some reasons.
Its hard drive is slow (4200 rpm).
It's got slow ram (DDR2700).
It's got no room for expansion. Want more drive space? Tough luck. Why do you think server cases are the ones with tons of bays...?
I wouldn't trust its cooling to run 24/7 without the processor and drive getting uncomfortably hot.
It's got a slow system bus (167 MHz).
 
wyvern said:
Here's some reasons.
Its hard drive is slow (4200 rpm).
It's got slow ram (DDR2700).
It's got no room for expansion. Want more drive space? Tough luck. Why do you think server cases are the ones with tons of bays...?
I wouldn't trust its cooling to run 24/7 without the processor and drive getting uncomfortably hot.
It's got a slow system bus (167 MHz).

None of those are really important if you're just interested in setting up a server for your home network. You don't need a big iron server for that. If you're setting up home network server, the Mac mini is great since it's small, quiet, and consumes very little power. Shove it in a cabinet, and you're done.

But if you're setting up a server where thousands of concurrent users are expected, that's an entirely different story.
 
Most of those specs are fine for light serving purposes. You can use an old, pre-G3 for a small server and do just fine; you don't need state-of-the-art equipment unless you have thousands or millions of hits per day and lots of heavy scripting. And if it gets hot, find a way to cool it externally. Plus, 80 GB is plenty for a few HTML pages, if that's the kind of serving Mike has in mind.
 
$400 will get you more power, better cooling, and expandability. And personally, I don't think OS X is ready for serious serving. Yes, Apple runs it, but of course they have to eat their own dogfood.
 
Isn't ready for serious serving? Is that why the consumer version of OS X comes with Apache, PHP, Perl, MySQL, and so much more, already installed and awaiting activation? Is that why Apple ships a product called OS X Server? Is that, perhaps, why he was suggesting using pure, undiluted Darwin?

The answer to Mike's question really depends on what his needs are. If all he needs is something to show off his collection of old shoes, then a Mac mini is more than enough. If it's something more substantial, then yes, he should get a more powerful computer.
 
The kernel is not solid enough. Some fundamental things, like NFS, are broken even in 10.3 Server.

Just because Apple includes some convenient utilities doesn't mean that this is a server OS. I have no doubt that Windows 2000 Server comes with IIS and some sort of DBMS, but does that mean it's a good server OS?
 
Mac Mini as a server running 24/7...would you use a Powerbook for the same purpose as looking at the specs they are based on the same technology. Also an OSX server licence would cost at least the same as the system if not more.
 
As pointed out earlier here you don't need a very powerful machine for small time serving. I ran NetBSD on a MacIIci (!) for 3 years, 8 domains , 200 email users, ca. 4-5000 hits/day, no problems, longest uptime between reboots over 600 days.
 
I agree you do not need a very powerful machine to run as a server, but I would doubt the suitability of a laptop or a Mini Mac to be left switched on for extended periods of time with problems related to overheating as most of the powersaving options would need to be disabled.
 
i'm shocked by the two guys toting these machines as "not server quality". give me a break. this guy is no doubt just wanting to use it as a small time server where the most hits likely in a day is well under a thousand.

on top of that, i have been using an old gateway p3 laptop running debian for these purposed for about 2 years now. the specs are terrible, but it works fine for my needs. oh, and i keep the lid closed and it stuffed in a closet. i dont care if the thing dies, but it hasn't in that long. i seriously doubt this is going to be, as you are suggesting, worse than that.

reality check. not everyone hosts a website that gets slashdotted on a regular basis.
 
Um. Ok. firstly. i played with NFS on the server in my sig. it worked. how exactly is it broken?

secondly. there was no specification as to what services he wanted to use it for. even if there is an issue with NFS, the chances of someone with a small home network, who is considering using a MiniMac for a server, wanting to use NFS is very low. either way. i think it will be fine. I personally would choose a second-hand G4 tower for expandability alone, but i think the mini will work fine.
 
Tommo said:
Mac Mini as a server running 24/7...would you use a Powerbook for the same purpose as looking at the specs they are based on the same technology. Also an OSX server licence would cost at least the same as the system if not more.

I wouldn't use my Powerbook as a server. I bought it to be mobile, and as such it get's moved from one network location to another frequently. The IP address isn't static enough to run a reliable server.

If you're asking if I would run a server on *equivalent* hardware, the answer is yes. The Powerbook has enough juice to run pretty much any website, even in a corporate environment. P3 servers are still common place, and I know a few of the departments in my university run their websites with all the course lecture notes/assignments/tutorials/etc on P3 machines. If a P3 (800 Mhz - 1GHz) machine copes, why can't the Mac mini?

You don't need OS X server to run a server. Plain vanilla OS X will do just fine. All OS X server adds is the nice GUI tools to configure your server. Samba, Apache, and Tomcat run fine on the standard installation of OS X. If there tools you need that don't come with the standard OS X installation, just download the sources and compile. It is Unix after all. Projects like fink and darwinports make this a breeze.

As for the 'solidness' of the kernel, what on earth are you talking about? NFS access has got nothing to do with the kernel. How is the Linux kernel anymore solid than the OS X kernel? Or the NT kernel for that matter?
 
99mac.se in Sweden just ordered a truckload of Minis to mount in racks (9 minis fits in a 4U rack) and put in their web hosting farm as dedicated servers for rent.
 
I think it would be a GREAT server for home uses. Remember he said that he is using a 200mhz PC for his server right now, this mini would be such a freakin huge increase from that! I am currently using a BW G3/450 as my LAN/WAN server which is low volume and it does a super job. the bottleneck is the net connection, by far NOT the computer.
 
The kernel's VM performance is poor, and its networking stack is flaky. There's a race condition or something like that which Azureus, a popular bittorrent client, happened to tweak when opening a lot of connections, hence the kernel panics that plagued azureus users for the last several releases. This, of course, should be impossible. But, the kernel is still immature, and hasn't had the benefit of years of tuning the way the mainstream server kernels have.

Of course NFS is separate from the kernel... my point was, OS X is not ready for primetime. And, Pengu, just because you "played with" the NFS server does not mean it works the way it should.

OS X will serve files. I never said it wouldn't. It just probably won't be as reliable or as fast as a true server OS. It very likely will be easier to administer, though, as long as you're not doing anything too far off of the beaten path, so if ease of use is a high priority, then OS X will fill the bill. All this is irrelevant to the original discussion of whether the Mac Mini is an appropriate server.

You can run a web server out of a matchbox, but that doesn't mean you should. I think you (plural) may be letting your Mac zealotry get in the way of reality here. I use my mac every day as my primary work machine, but that doesn't blind me to the benefits of other hardware and software platforms in certain situations.
 
wyvern - no one here is saying that ibm should deploy a mass of minis as their new server farm. what happened was one guy asked if a mini would be a decent replacement for his 200MHz pc server. you said no. hence the rush do defence by all us "mac zealots". fact is, you seemingly misunderstood the situation and everyone here came in to post with a "it will do well for your needs" response.

if i seem to have taken offense to you referring to these posters as mac zealots it is because i have. this situation does not demand a machine designed to be a server, an os designed to be a server os, or anything else server-specific to be successful. if you don't want people on this board to recommend macs, i think you may be in the wrong place.
 
cfleck, you seem to be ignoring the fact that for less money, you can get more machine, and run a better OS (given the tasks that will be required of it) by not going with the Mini. Thanks for proving my point about your overlooking other platforms.
 
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