.Mac Petition

Originally posted by Snowball
I can't quite figure out how this thread has gone so wildly off topic, but evildan, let me be the first to congratulate you on that great letter. It gets the point across in a very effective manner.
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Thanks Snowball... I think it covers just about everything I could think of as to why this .mac is a bad idea.


The only problem is that it would be easier to start a new petition than get special permission from petitiononline.com's admins to revise the original petition. I really hope Steve Jobs does read it, because all of it rings very true. Apple has messed up iTools, and enough users are angry enough to try to fix the problem.
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I agree 100% where can we go to publish this letter? Anyone have server space they would be willing to donate?

I'm going to submit the idea to a couple of places in an attempt to get it published. I'd appreciate any help.
 
1. Don't ask me where to locate it, but I once actually read the terms of the iTools service and it was made very clear that they [Apple] can drop the service at any damn time they want. That time is now. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a shame, but in case anyone hasn't noticed, the economy as a whole and especially the tech industry is in a slump. Apple has to make money to keep giving us what we want. It works both ways.

2. What's the word? It's coming to me, oh yeah, "Hypocrites " I think is the one I'm looking for. "We want this, we want that!" [e.g. Jaguar] So the chants go, but God forbid Apple actually charge for it. Um, it's like a business and stuff. I think Apple is stretching it a bit with the full $129 price, but again, the whole ecomony thing and all. I, for one, am elated to get Quartz Extreme, better PC networking and a few of the other features. Price is secondary. (Did I miss USB printer sharing? I don't remember seeing it in the feature list. Please tell me I missed it.)

3. Piracy as "payback"—To those who somehow feel like they can suddenly start pirating OS 10.2 willy nilly just cuz they don't agree with Apple's business model, please leave the Mac community immediately.

Have a nice day.
 
1. Don't ask me where to locate it, but I once actually read the terms of the iTools service and it was made very clear that they [Apple] can drop the service at any damn time they want. That time is now. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a shame, but in case anyone hasn't noticed, the economy as a whole and especially the tech industry is in a slump. Apple has to make money to keep giving us what we want. It works both ways.
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Yeah, I'd like you to locate it.

I'll post this again, and it will be the last time I post it, so read me loud and clear.

I couldn't care less if Apple charges for a services. It's the manner in which we were informed of the change that has me upset.

And yes, I think email accounts should be free and there are a host of other companies that share my opinion... Yahoo & Hotmail, etc.

Apple has to be crazy to think that this is going to generate any money for them. The ONLY way this is going to help Apple is that they are now playing both sides.

A) If this .mac thing takes off, they generate cash from the subscriptions
B) if it isn't popular, then they can cut back on servers, etc to save money

You're right in saying the nation is in a financial slump, no one can deny that, but Apple is doing something very M$'ish today. They are going back on their word. And if you're not upset, you should be... Don’t confuse me with someone who wants everything for free, I don’t. I pay for my software and my hardware like most users here. I buy my voting rights and voice concerning all Apple issues. I don’t find these items of concern to be gibberish or a waste of time.

In the near future Apple community members will be cut off from a service that they have come to depend on. Apple provided the promise when they offered iTools. We didn’t ask for it. Apple provided it under the conditions that it was going to be “free for life.”

I have to admit I was shocked to hear such a promise, but nevertheless I took Apple for their word when Steve Jobs said it.

Simple as that. I can go to a number of other hosts and get my free email... So why am I going to pay Apple for a service that I can get for free? I’m not. And from the general outrage of users here either are they.

And we haven’t even considered the “out-of-touch” mac users yet. The people who will just see a stop in service. One day their email won’t work so they’ll visit Apple’s website to discover that they will now have to start paying for email. Then I’d imagine they’ll visit yahoo or hotmail and set themselves up with a free account. Because everybody knows you don’t pay for email.

You are only promoting this type of behaviour if you blindly follow Apple. It is our right, privilege and responsibility to keep Apple in check with our protests. The people who were reaching for their wallets before Steve even finished his keynote should be concerned.
 
Amen evildan. You said it 10x more eloquently than I even have the energy to attempt.

Im getting a little tired of the response "you know, companies have to make money" every time someone else complains about being shafted by their favorite company X. And thats exactly what Apple makes it look like, they are giving us all the "shaft".

At the very least, Apple is guilty of being very bad at PR.

There are right and wrong times to announce these kind of things.

Oh and one more thing. You dont keep your hard earned money by paying for every "deluxe" service that gets passed your way kids.
 
I signed the petition, but I don't hink it's going to make any difference. Apple is going to INCREASE profits independent of its users decisions. How? If people decide not to pay for .Mac, Apple's server costs are reduced. If people pay for the overly priced .Mac service, Apple still makes money. I think that the first thing that will happen is that people are not going to pay for .Mac. A small percentage of people will decide to keep .Mac. I'm willing to bet that Apple will have less than 50 Xserve units after this whole .Mac thing is underway after September.

oops, I should have read evildan's post...same thing I mentioned.
 
I'll look up my info on the iTools terms just as soon as evildan shows me where Apple explicitly stated that iTools was "free for life". You say Stevo said it. I"d like a URL of the movie clip and the timecode for that statement. (FWIW--I don't doubt for a second that he said it.)

In fact, I'm so sure I saw those terms I'll make a bet. No, you lay out the terms. I'm up for anything. Believe me, it's there. You think Apple is stupid enough to guarantee a life long free service with no "out clause". Not.

evildan wrote:
You are only promoting this type of behaviour if you blindly follow Apple. It is our right, privilege and responsibility to keep Apple in check with our protests. The people who were reaching for their wallets before Steve even finished his keynote should be concerned.

me write:
Nice try, but I have been among Apple's biggest critics over the last year. If you want blind followers, you've come to the right board, you just picked the wrong individual in this case. I don't mind.

The more I think about this, the more I agree with you guys, but only on the issue of email accounts. It is definitely wrong of Apple to lead people down that path and shut them down. I presume many people went so far as to get business cads, letterhead, etc. with their Apple email addresses. Apple should find a way to continue free email if nothing else.

As for the rest of iTools (.Mac), I think I"m actually going to pay for it. Do you know how much money I have made using Apple's stock music [DL'd from iTools] in my video projects? I could pay for .Mac for years. And the 100 Meg has been nice to throw client projects up temporarily for review. OK, now I'm just blabbing...

SUMMARY

1. "Terms" research challenge initiated :)
2. Mindbend defends position of "blindness"
3. Mindbend concedes issue of frustration in regards to email
4. Mindbend blabs about nothing much
 
originally posted by btoneill on another thread
This is from the old iTools membership terms:

----------------------------------
Apple may change, suspend or discontinue any (or all) aspects of iTools at any time, including the availability of any iTools feature or content. Apple may also impose limits on the use of or access to certain features or portions of iTools, including a charge for or imposition of a subscription or other fee for use of iTools or any part or feature of iTools, or restrict your access to any part or all of iTools, in all cases without notice or liability.
------------------------------------

Doesn't look like apple promised anything, and you agreed to their promise of nothing.

Brian
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Its hypocritical to question a large companies business practices and pricing structures? Are you sure you don't work for microsoft?

Nobody said they were going to pirate 10.2 because they are pissed. Its just a reality that since they are making all users pay 129 dollars for an upgrade (and yes it IS an UPGRADE) people are going to get it however they can to avoid this.

Its a shame that they are turning there backs to the users that bought 10.0 and stuck through it all and when a new upgrade comes out they get no rebate or price cut.
 
I'm not bothered by jaguar's price at all. think of it as having paid $65 for 10.1 and $65 for Jaguar. Since I got the 10.1 upgrade CD for about $15 since I couldn't get to an Apple store, I got in on eBay :0
 
Re: 10.2 (not .Mac)
Only hypocritical to wish, demand, lust for new features and not be willing to pay for them. $129 seems like a bargain for what it gets me. I begged for em [features], now I've got em, and now I'm paying for em. Simple concept.

Re: .Mac
Indeed, think it's reasonable for this thread to question this .Mac thing. I guess since I'm not affected by it, I just can't get worked up about it.
 
I hope you guys check back at the site regularly because we hit 13281 signatures...well hope we make SOME kind of a difference
 
Originally posted by mindbend
Re: 10.2 (not .Mac)
Only hypocritical to wish, demand, lust for new features and not be willing to pay for them. $129 seems like a bargain for what it gets me. I begged for em [features], now I've got em, and now I'm paying for em. Simple concept.



I'm willing to pay for features. If i wasn't then why would I have bought 10.0 in the first place? But you gotta be realistic. You cannot expect users to continualy shell out full price for upgrades. With the hardware being as expensive as it is as well. I'm not saying don't charge. I'm saying this: Create a price structure. One price for upgraded users.. one price for new users. Its simple.. It keeps loyal users happy.. Gets new customers.. makes plenty of profit.. and everyone is happy.

I also wish X would let my apple pro speakers and iSub not sound like sh*t in X. No controls for speaker levels. Do I have to pay another 99 for this "feature" ? Should I lust over it and be not willing to pay for it?

I've been a loyal mac user for some time now. Last year I finally had enough to get my OWN computer. I chose to buy a mac. I'm a student and i'm on a budget. I could easily have saved hundreds and even a thousand bucks if I chose to go with a PC. But I didnt. It doesn't sit well with me and i'm sure many other users when they decide to go this route.

Lets hope Apple and Steve wake up just a tad. :mad:
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Wow! I can't believe you guys got 13,281 sigs. I guess this really does mean something to you. Good luck. (seriously)
 
please forgive me if I am off-topic. Just that I was impressed with the clarity & coherence of Evil Dan's letter.

Unfortunately, whoever took the initiative regarding the lack of scaled pricing or discounted prices for recent purchasers of Macs or OS X for the Jaguar upgrade doesn't have your facility with the English language. See Petition Online Jaguar upgrade

Several posts on another forum indicated they weren't about to sign a petition which is so poorly worded... but I think that misses the point! (see MacFixIt lounge "Can Apple Ignore Irate Users"

If people also see fit to protest the lack of discounted prices of Jaguar, how do we a) get the original petition revised, so it is more forcefully and professionally worded, and b) get Evil Dan to draft one of his great letters?
 
Originally posted by evildan
And we haven’t even considered the “out-of-touch” mac users yet. The people who will just see a stop in service. One day their email won’t work so they’ll visit Apple’s website to discover that they will now have to start paying for email. Then I’d imagine they’ll visit yahoo or hotmail and set themselves up with a free account. Because everybody knows you don’t pay for email.
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That's not quite an accurate picture. I received an email from Apple "Information About Your iTools Membership" announcing the whole .Mac thing. It is dated July 18, 8:49 PM (I'm on central time). Here is the PDF* printout version of the email, conveniently hosted on my iDisk…

*.pdf was not an upload option
 
Evil Dan & many others have recently complained not only about the .Mac fiasco, but also the steep Jaguar upgrade price. In a recent post, I noted that the petition re: Jaguar is poorly worded, & many have been reluctant to sign such an unprofessional document. (see Jaguar Petition Online

I took the initiative to rewrite a draft, & after eliciting feedback from you, my Macintosh colleagues, I will try to tactfully & diplomatically approach the original writer & see if he agrees to change the wording of the Jaguar petition.

Please note: I don't expect a free upgrade. Well, read the letter below... So, will the eloquent Evil Dan & others give me some feedback? Thanks.

letter to iCEO, Steve Jobs, Apple Computer

We, the undersigned, protest Apple’s lack of a fair pricing structure and lack of a reasonable pricing policy for the upgrade to Mac OSX 10.2, also known as “Jaguar”.

While we support the need to charge the full $129. Jaguar price for those who are migrating to OS X from previous operating systems and who have Macintosh computers which are over one year old, we believe it is only reasonable and fair to expect Apple to offer significant discounts for Jaguar when the following circumstances apply:

- Macintosh computers purchased within the last 4 months
-OS X purchased within the last 4 months
- Full-price paid for OS X non-beta release

We also strongly believe that Apple should honour the “Apple Software Proof-of-Purchase Coupons” for this Mac OS X update, in the case of people who have recently (within the past 4 months) purchased a new Macintosh computer.

Under all the above-listed circumstances, we suggest a $25.95 upgrade price for Jaguar.

We also propose that there be a price reduction for buying Jaguar for people who have:
1) purchased Macintosh computers from 5 months to 1 year ago
2) purchased Mac OS X (but not at full-price) within 5 months to 1 year ago
3) purchased Mac OS X 10.0

In these cases, we propose a discounted price of $50.95 for 1) and 2), and a half-price discount of $65.99 for 3).

We hope you will see fit to rescind your decision regarding Jaguar pricing for the above-cited circumstances. This would help to quell the wrath of many long-time Macintosh supporters. By doing so, Apple will be perceived as a fair-minded and responsive company.

Sincerely,
the Undersigned
 
$30 to "update" to QT 6.0 Pro. THEN, in order to get MPEG2 (which worked on QT5) we have to pay another $30?:confused:
AND $130 for Jaguar...75% bells and whistles, 25% networking, files, Finder improvement, a little faster.:eek: Y piensas que nosotros vamos a ceder a esto??:mad: Think differently, you who think different.
Xsedrinam:D
 
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