Megahertz Myth...
- Thread starter Jason
- Start date
edX
mac shaman
Guys, i think the point is that macs are constantly getting bashed by the media, by coworkers and by any skinny gamer with a pc. so we shout back occasioanllly. it's part of the mac culture. it has been for a long time. perhaps when developers, IT's, ISP's, and the kid next door stop treating us like second class citizens in the computer world, we'll calm down, but probably not before that.
This is a mac site. not a computer site, but a mac site. one of the few places around the web we can call our own. we're quite welcome to switchers and adders, but complaining about our complaints about pc's isn't too cool. it's not going to stop any time soon - especially when cockeyed comparisons like this one continue to be the norm.
This is a mac site. not a computer site, but a mac site. one of the few places around the web we can call our own. we're quite welcome to switchers and adders, but complaining about our complaints about pc's isn't too cool. it's not going to stop any time soon - especially when cockeyed comparisons like this one continue to be the norm.
kendall
Registered
You missed bastard.
Honestly, I don't see a problem with the article. The guy ran several tests using PCs and Macs. In the end, the PC notebook won but even more shocking is that a $400 Dell Desktop cleaned the clock of a $3600 PowerMac. The guys a Mac user and can admit that Macs need some work. Maybe its time for Apple and its fellow Mac users to stop being in denial and do something about it.
Honestly, I don't see a problem with the article. The guy ran several tests using PCs and Macs. In the end, the PC notebook won but even more shocking is that a $400 Dell Desktop cleaned the clock of a $3600 PowerMac. The guys a Mac user and can admit that Macs need some work. Maybe its time for Apple and its fellow Mac users to stop being in denial and do something about it.
Where did someone say that everyone should use Macs? Or PowerBooks? Or iBooks? In a Mac forum, the discussion is going to get Mac-centric, but I don't know of any Mac users who go to PC forums to tell them to use Macs.
I got an idea, maybe we can all realize that pushing PCs in a Mac forum is going to meet with resistance. I personally think talking about PCs has as much relevance as talking about the latest Cray supercomputers or the original Apple ][s. If they don't run a Mac OS and Mac software, why are we talking about them as if they matter? And if PCs matter, why not bring up Suns and Silicon Graphics computers too? Or even IBM's stuff (at least they run on PowerPC processors).
Romendo, an alien computer system that can't run a Mac OS fulfills none of the needs of people with Mac software. It does fulfill the needs of PC users with their PC operating systems (someone open a Window) and PC software, but that's about it. For me as a Mac user, buying a Mac is far more cost effective in terms of both work flow and cost (as moving from one platform to another seems to negate the savings of the cheep hardware, which I still have never seen work right).
Maybe I missed that one. How fast did the $400 Dell boot Mac OS X? What were the render times for web pages with OmniWeb 4.1 on the $400 Dell? And here is a good one I would like to know, was Sherlock faster than Watson while running them on the $400 Dell? I just want to see some real world tests between this $400 Dell and even my lowly iMac.
Here is some more discussion on this article, complete with rather complete analysis of the market forces involved, etc:
http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/01/Timeismoney.shtml
and:
http://www.grotto11.com/blog/?+1042511080
Both these sites have lots more on this subject for those that are interested.
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/01/Timeismoney.shtml
and:
http://www.grotto11.com/blog/?+1042511080
Both these sites have lots more on this subject for those that are interested.
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
"I got an idea, maybe we can all realize that pushing PCs in a Mac forum is going to meet with resistance. I personally think talking about PCs has as much relevance as talking about the latest Cray supercomputers or the original Apple ][s. If they don't run a Mac OS and Mac software, why are we talking about them as if they matter?"
Because to most people, they present the main alternative to the Mac?
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
Because to most people, they present the main alternative to the Mac?
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
hulkaros
The Incredible...
Or if you prefer some MORE things
How fast is the Dull system while running iApps? Final Cut Pro? Express? Keynote? Shake? Safari? Chimera? OmniWeb? Quake 3? Doom 3 when it will come out? Or does it come with 64bit PCI? 10/100/1000 buil-in network? Can it support built-in Airport? How fast is its SuperDrive? How many Hard Disks can the Dull support inside its box? Is its Hard Disk 120GB? How fast is it while using Classic? Does it have an Apple logo on it? What about ADC connector? DVI? What about FireWires? Is it beatiful compared to PowerMac and PowerBook? Is it light and small as the Titanium? And does it multitask? Methinks for the guy to live the poor Dull out of the multitasking tests is a big WHY at the least...
Kendal, methinks that is at least a cheap trick to repeat over and over the price/performance ratio of the Dull because in the end the Dull lacks MANY features... The biggest of all being that it is coming from a company called Dell with stuff coming from the Wintel platform... Hell, Dull doesn't even support Amd stuff!!!
As for Mac guys bashing the Dark Side: Of course we will bash 'em a lot! Let's just say we were talking about cars and my favorite car was Ferrari... Should I support or favor Porsche instead or even say that Porsche is the same as Ferrari? Big freaking NO!
Mac rulez! Just because
How fast is the Dull system while running iApps? Final Cut Pro? Express? Keynote? Shake? Safari? Chimera? OmniWeb? Quake 3? Doom 3 when it will come out? Or does it come with 64bit PCI? 10/100/1000 buil-in network? Can it support built-in Airport? How fast is its SuperDrive? How many Hard Disks can the Dull support inside its box? Is its Hard Disk 120GB? How fast is it while using Classic? Does it have an Apple logo on it? What about ADC connector? DVI? What about FireWires? Is it beatiful compared to PowerMac and PowerBook? Is it light and small as the Titanium? And does it multitask? Methinks for the guy to live the poor Dull out of the multitasking tests is a big WHY at the least...
Kendal, methinks that is at least a cheap trick to repeat over and over the price/performance ratio of the Dull because in the end the Dull lacks MANY features... The biggest of all being that it is coming from a company called Dell with stuff coming from the Wintel platform... Hell, Dull doesn't even support Amd stuff!!!
As for Mac guys bashing the Dark Side: Of course we will bash 'em a lot! Let's just say we were talking about cars and my favorite car was Ferrari... Should I support or favor Porsche instead or even say that Porsche is the same as Ferrari? Big freaking NO!
Mac rulez! Just because
hulkaros
The Incredible...
And you want us to believe that this Alien-what? thing is a laptop? Maybe you got that ALL WRONG... It may look like a laptop but let me tell you this: It's a PC box in disguise
You should have known better: It is DAMN ugly and with no real usage on the road: Hell I can beat it with an iBook 600MHz EASILY while on the road
hulkaros
The Incredible...
...they don't present the main alternative to the Mac... They try as hell to make it look as a Mac alternative but they fail
That's the problem of Wintel... They try hard, spending billions and still they CANNOT make the people NOT envy a Mac when they see one in action
Maybe in 2004 with the new Windows and new Intel CPUs 
Cat
Registered
What do you mean "alternative to the Mac"?
I'll consider Intel-ware when it can run OS X (and seamlessly intergrates X-11 apps with the rest).
If you really need more Mhz to do your job and Apple doesn't provide those, I understand that you consider "alternatives". The point seems to me, that precisely because of software reasons (including the GUI, stability, etc.) you don't have any alternatives. Well, then you have in fact made your chioce! Why complain? You chose the best! And if you simply want more, more, more ... well, we all dream...
Right so Mac-Blog!
I'll consider Intel-ware when it can run OS X (and seamlessly intergrates X-11 apps with the rest).
If you really need more Mhz to do your job and Apple doesn't provide those, I understand that you consider "alternatives". The point seems to me, that precisely because of software reasons (including the GUI, stability, etc.) you don't have any alternatives. Well, then you have in fact made your chioce! Why complain? You chose the best! And if you simply want more, more, more ... well, we all dream...
Originally posted by hulkaros
And you want us to believe that this Alien-what? thing is a laptop? Maybe you got that ALL WRONG... It may look like a laptop but let me tell you this: It's a PC box in disguise
It's not a laptop in the ordinary sense, entirely true - it's a portable desktop replacement, aimed at gamers. That's one great thing Mac portables have going for them - good battery life. That's probably one of the reasons Intel have cooked up their new processor family - we'll see how they shape up once Intel gets them out the door.
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
Originally posted by hulkaros
...they don't present the main alternative to the Mac... They try as hell to make it look as a Mac alternative but they fail
That's the problem of Wintel... They try hard, spending billions and still they CANNOT make the people NOT envy a Mac when they see one in action
I repeat: to "most people" they present the main alternative. And most people go with the PC option. I realize you yourself might not consider PC:s an option, but that does little to change the fact that "most people" will consider PC:s as a Mac alternative.
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
Erm, the PB800 beat the alienware in excactly zero (0) tests. Not surprising - it shouldn't be able to, since, as you point out, the Alienware is rather a mobile desktop replacement than a portable. (Still, it didn't beat the 1.8 GHz Dell in any tests either for that matter...) This is rather a drawback for the PC side of the test, since it's top-end is represented by a portable, with the drawbacks in performance that come with the portability - sporting a 5400 rpm harddrive for instance, vs. the dual 1.25 G4:s 7200 rpm drive. I would have preferred a benchmark sporting a tower P4 3.06 / Dual Athlon MP:s rather than the alienware portable for a more relevant comparison.
Regards / GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
Erm, what's this "M$ Windooze crashes once every 5 mins" thing about? face it: XP is pretty much crash-proof. (Much like OS X) As for the GUI - Aqua looks pretty smashing, but XP is not far behind (Especially once you skin it... The metallic style is OS X-ish enough for my tastes...) Let's face it here as well: Opening Photoshop in XP takes 2 rapid clicks - doing the same in OS X takes, well, about the same amount of time. And once yoy are in the program, it's unlikely you will experience any major productivity differances.
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
Cat
Registered
Oh well, I don't think M$ is so unstable that it would be unusable. I've used a wintel system for years and years, starting actually with DOS only
I liked Win98 SE well enough, and it was stable enough, but not as stable as OS X. Since I first installed it, it has never crashed, nor did I ever need to re-install it (unlike my wintel machine). Moreover I can reconfigure most settings without needing to restart the whole system, that is a stability issue too. And I'm definitely sure most wintels perform as well as or outperform Macs in many area's. Still, instead of comparing the newest pentium or athlon at 3+ Ghz with a G4 PM, I'm very curious how a 1 Ghz x86 machine would perform in comparison. My PII@333 Mhz suddenly looked very old and sluggish when compared with my G3@366. I wonder if Apple is running tests and benchmarks with their Marklar x86 port...With the GUI I didn't only mean pretty looks but also ease of use, the way everything seems to work intuitively as you think it should. I have never used XP and in comparing OS X and windoze I have 98 in mind. So maybe XP has fixed things I didn't like in 98. For instance almost every time I needed to change IP settings or tinkered with my network settings I had to restart the whole thing... with OS X I can reconfigure most of the system while up and running. I switch from an ethernet connection to Airport without having to make any changes at all! Maybe now the peecees can do that too, well that means they have catched up. That's good for the people who use them. I don't care what the productivity of others is, as long as mine's good enough. For me "switching" to the Mac was an improvement. And yes, I like my Mac, I'm fond of my iBook in a way I never was before of a computer. The experience in using my iBook was a whole new thing to me. Now I lust for the 12" AlBook and have become a real Mac-fetishist...
Yea, a G4 366 should whoomp a PII 366 =) . I'd say XP is a major change from 95/98/Me - they have pretty much dumped the old underpinnings entirely in favor of the NT kernel = good stability. I'd say 98 compares more to OS 9 in generational terms. It's easy to set up hardware-wise as well, which is a major help in the hardware jungle of the PC world... Still, I think the interface is somewhat more consistent in OS X, which of course is a matter of taste.
As for the sexiness of Mac:s, well - that new 17" AlBook sure looks yummy. (The lit keyboard is way, way cool. Best part of the keynote, hands down, even though Safari was a major surprise as well. Oh, and Keynote looked pretty sweet as well =P)
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
As for the sexiness of Mac:s, well - that new 17" AlBook sure looks yummy. (The lit keyboard is way, way cool. Best part of the keynote, hands down, even though Safari was a major surprise as well. Oh, and Keynote looked pretty sweet as well =P)
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!
I have been a Windows user and lover all of my life until 1 1/2 years ago. Windows XP IS much more crash-proof than its predecessors. I do however, still get a good amount of crashes using it. Most of the time the computer does not need to be restarted, but occasionally it does. I don't know anyone who can go for close to a week or even a day without having to restart XP at least once... I am an architecture student and we have labs with dozens of XP computers in them... I know of at least 2 dozen times when the computer has crashed and a student has lost their work. Very frustrating. On my Powerbook the only time I have to restart my computer is when I install an update like Quicktime 6.1. It can literally run for months at a time...
Just for the record: When I say "crash" I mean an OS crash - not just a program going haywire =) That said, it is indeed possible to bring XP to a screeching BSOD halt by introducing it to 'exotic' hardware. I threw together a low-cost PC using some old parts, as well as new stuff (MoBo / memory / Processor new) - this worked fine, except in one game, that would bring down the OS every single time you tried to quit it. That was, until I replaced my 4-year-old soundcard with a newer model, then everything worked really neat. Moral of story - if you get a brand-name PC, you can be pretty sure it's stable. If you build it yourself, you are taking a risk. I'm running a brand-name machine atm, and it's pretty much crash-proof - I never take it down except for system updates (Infrequent), and into sleep mode. Rock solid. Then again, on PC:s with their multitude of hardware, you get no 100% guarantees - that's both an upside and a downside for PC users. Greater flexibility hardware-wise, but it comes at the cost of potential instability.
/GulGnu
-Stabil som fan!