Megahertz Myth...

[edX]

Originally posted by GulGnu
I repeat: to "most people" they present the main alternative. And most people go with the PC option. I realize you yourself might not consider PC:s an option, but that does little to change the fact that "most people" will consider PC:s as a Mac alternative.

not that i didn't like jeb's answer to this, but i felt i needed to add more. why is it that pc users come here and assume we're not aware that we only have a small market share - that we're a minority? could it be because they feel as frustrated as we do in a CompUsa or other so called computer superstore where half the things we want aren't carried or even made for our macs? could it be they suddenly find themselves surrounded by people who love their macs and the only 2 lines of defense they've got are "pc's are faster and cheaper" and "i'm like most people"?

Who's the fastest and cheapest counts for something in a bar on friday nite. and even then their is often a price to be paid for choosing that route. being like "most people" also means your IQ is in the average range and so your abilities to make truly informed decisions are limited.

but then another problem is us - mac users. we tend to shorten windows' user to pc user, when in fact there are some pc users who feel as disgusted with m$ as we do. But that is only natural, because let's face it, what terminal jockeys would waste their time making comparisons like the one in the article? so when ever we see pc speed claims, we're eally talking about windows' users who feel they've got to justify their choice to be like "most people". Cause the ones who would go thru all this are most likely smart enought to know that there's more to it than that, but admiting it is hard.especially if you're still paying off your credit card for all your m$ updates of XP and office.Add in the windows version of photoshop and you've already spent more than a new mac that would have solved all those other problems besides speed.

but back to being mac users in a computer store - i used to get really mad whenever i was faced with seeing lots of peripherals for pc's at half the price of the same things for macs. but eventually i realized that anybody could make a piece of crap piece of hardware and sell it. Having a mac helps reduce the chance i'll make a poor purchase decision. it doesn't eliminate it, but it reduces it. i would really like to see a set of compatibility to peripheral devices for these computers. there's still a lot to be said for 'plug and play' vs 'plug and pray' besides just saving xmas.

but jeb, i wonder if you didn't open up a whole new door of advertising for Alienware with the observation of removing leg hairs. my GF might want one of those. It would be a whole new way to multitask

 

[jeb1138]

Originally posted by edX
Who's the fastest and cheapest counts for something in a bar on friday nite. and even then their is often a price to be paid for choosing that route.

lol!

Originally posted by edX
but jeb, i wonder if you didn't open up a whole new door of advertising for Alienware with the observation of removing leg hairs. my GF might want one of those. It would be a whole new way to multitask

LOL!!!! That would make for a great advertizing campaign! Picture Lubriderm-like commercial pitting Alienware vs. Crocodile for beautiful woman.

*virtually quoting Ed's post in entirety*
Amen to that brother! Can we get that whole post embossed, framed and hung next to the site rules or something?

 

[GulGnu]

Originally posted by jeb1138
Actually, they were all compared to each other, simply by the layout of the data as well as in the discussion.

True, but the top-end Mac vs. PC faceoff is between the G4 Dual 1.25 GHz and the Alienware 3.06 GHz P4, which I guess is what matters to most professionals in this context. That he threw the old Dell and PB in there, well, might be interesting for second-hand buyers, who knows...

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

 

[GulGnu]

Originally posted by jeb1138
Oops....um....sorry. Sorry! I have no idea how I messed up on that one! Thanks for the correction. Maybe it's 'cause I was reading sideways on my bed since my PowerBook is so portable.

But you're wrong about it not beating the Dell!! It won in one category! See if you can find it -- it'll be like Where's Waldo in a column!

Whoopse! Missed the preview test, despite it being right on top... doh...

Edit: Well, I did say "beat the alienware"=P

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

 

[GulGnu]

Originally posted by jeb1138
That's it huh? Battery life is all the powerbook has going for it huh? How about half the volume, 2/3 the weight, a much larger screen, Firewire 800, Gigabit ethernet, integrated WiFi and a Superdrive?

Erm, no - I said it's "one thing" it's got going for it - all the other stuff obviously come into play as well. All in all, Apple makes great laptops - it's the Desktop side that is hurting at the moment, imho.

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

 

[GulGnu]

Originally posted by jeb1138
The masses (including me) have short attention spans and a lack of information. It you're gonna write an article for them and want to be truly helpful you need at-a-glance summaries (or mentions, at least) of the other things going into computers too or else they'll just latch onto those speed numbers and end up with a computer that helps them not be able to do what they want to do more quickly, near power outlets, with no hair left on their legs, no fashion sense and a sore shoulder .

Well, it's not really for "the masses" - it's for pro photographers. And the author does mention other factors down in the comments section, but they aren't all favourable to the mac... Read it - it's a good, clean discussion.

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

 

[jeb1138]

Originally posted by GulGnu
Erm, no - I said it's "one thing" it's got going for it - all the other stuff obviously come into play as well. All in all, Apple makes great laptops - it's the Desktop side that is hurting at the moment, imho.

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

DOH!! Man I really got to start to learn how to read! Sorry!

 

[GulGnu]

"Who's the fastest and cheapest counts for something in a bar on friday nite. and even then their is often a price to be paid for choosing that route. being like "most people" also means your IQ is in the average range and so your abilities to make truly informed decisions are limited. "

The 90-95% of computer users who use Wintels most likely contain both some really stupid and really smart people - sort of the 5% that owns Mac:s. In my case, I like to play games on my 'puter once in a while, (BF 1942... yumm!), which makes the PC the only viable option. If (when) I get a productivity laptop though, I'll most likely go with the Mac (That's why I spent an hour looking at this year's keynote - plus it's good fun =P) - it's also the reason I've been lurking on this board for a while.

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!

 

[jeb1138]

Originally posted by GulGnu
Well, it's not really for "the masses" - it's for pro photographers.

Pro photograhers are part of the masses, and there are masses of pro photographers, in my opinion!

Originally posted by GulGnu
Edit: Well, I did say "beat the alienware"=P

Yes, but you also said:
"Still, it didn't beat the 1.8 GHz Dell in any tests either for that matter..."

Originally posted by GulGnu
The 90-95% of computer users who use Wintels most likely contain both some really stupid and really smart people - sort of the 5% that owns Mac:s...If (when) I get a productivity laptop though, I'll most likely go with the Mac

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/news2002/jul02/jul22/1_mon/news4monday.html

You belong in the Mac crowd GulGnu! Join the dark...er... light side of the force! GulGnu is a perfect name for a Jedi! The force is strong in you, I can feel it! I switched and haven't looked back since OS X. Well, maybe just a couple times... Just to make sure that behemoth Wintel train wasn't trying to steamroll me.

So has the 17" PB got you itchin' to blow $3000 yet?

 

[stealth]

guys. anyone care to help me with my question: that alienware laptopt, since has a processor runnin at such high clock speeds, doesnt it wast lots of battery ? how long would any laptops battery last (runnin at 2 or 3 ghz) ??? thanxxx

 

[Cat]

Stay on topic. A $400 Dell Desktop beat a $3600 PowerMac. Discuss!

Yes my Lord!

Discuss: I don't believe it! And I'm not in a denial phase either ...

The facts:
$ 399,- buys you very little. In order to configure the Dimension 2350 in something vaguely resembling a PM the price goes up to at least $ 1200,- In this case you get a
P4@2 Ghz with 512K L2 cache
256 MB Ram
an "Integrated Intel Extreme 3D Graphics", 17" monitor etc.

Thus the Dell costs about as much as an iMac.
The iMac costs you exactly: $1,499.00

iMac 700MHz 15" TFT/256SD/40G/Combo/GeF2 MX/56K/FW/VGA/KB/SPKRS
256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
Apple Pro Speakers
Combo drive
40GB Ultra ATA drive

Let's compare it to the PowerMac: for $3.500,- you get:

NVIDIA GeForce4 MX dual-display w/32MB DDR
Apple SuperDrive
Power Mac G4 Dual 1GHz w/167MHz system bus
56K internal modem
256MB DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
Apple Pro Speakers
Apple Studio Display (17" flat panel)

So what follows from this?
That it is damn hard to compare them!
The PM can hold up to 4 120 GB HD's, the dell only one. So if you need a lot of HD space, the PM is better. If you're interested in games and graphics, I really think the iMac and PM are going to give you a better image, since I don't really trust the "integrated intel" thinghy. It all depends on what you do with your computer!

Most people who use a computer for work need something like a 486 DX/4 with 32 MB ram, and 4 mb video, running win95 and word/exel.

You can discuss which processor architecture is better, you can discuss which computer has a higher framerate in Quake III, but not which computer is outright "better".

Comparing the $ 399,- Dell to a PM is meaningless, because the PM can do things the Dell can't and viceversa. Comparing two top-of-the line computers would make more sense. Realize that in that case you pitch Apple against all the other players: IBM, Dell, Acer etc. There are always going to be companies that can provide cheaper computers and there are always companies that are going to produce faster/bigger etc. computers. Troubles begin when they are the same. At the moment being I do not believe this to be the case. Apple competes on the middle/high market: no "el cheapo" Macs! And I don't think the $ 1200,- Dell "beats" the $ 3500,- PM.

Sorry for the lenghty post...

 

[edX]

Originally posted by GulGnu
"Who's the fastest and cheapest counts for something in a bar on friday nite. and even then their is often a price to be paid for choosing that route. being like "most people" also means your IQ is in the average range and so your abilities to make truly informed decisions are limited. "

The 90-95% of computer users who use Wintels most likely contain both some really stupid and really smart people - sort of the 5% that owns Mac:s. In my case, I like to play games on my 'puter once in a while, (BF 1942... yumm!), which makes the PC the only viable option. If (when) I get a productivity laptop though, I'll most likely go with the Mac (That's why I spent an hour looking at this year's keynote - plus it's good fun =P) - it's also the reason I've been lurking on this board for a while.

you're right of course. and i have said the same thing in other threads. I just hate the "most people" argument as it implies that being a mindless follower of what other people do is somehow a good thing. and we all know that pc's have gained large parts of their market share thru just that. joe average follows what his work or neighbor has, never really looking into it very deeply. Long before the "think different" campaign, apple users have pretty much been known as a bit outside the norm though. not neccesarily more inteligent, but certainly outside the mid range on a number of bell curves.

this is a paradox of sorts though as macs have always been easier to use and maintain than windows boxes and should be much more appealing to thsoe without a lot of tech background or natural intelligence, while pc's with all their complexities, should be more appealing to those with higher intelligence as an intellectual challenge. like solving puzzles or equations. but that is also part of the beauty of os x, it contains the simplicity and the complexity. it is all ready to be whatever kind of an os you want it to be.

 

[hulkaros]

Originally posted by stealth
guys. anyone care to help me with my question: that alienware laptopt, since has a processor runnin at such high clock speeds, doesnt it wast lots of battery ? how long would any laptops battery last (runnin at 2 or 3 ghz) ??? thanxxx

Up to 1 hour... the most? Who knows for sure? The Alien-what? company doesn't even mention the battery facts about that ugly, hulk-like Alien... That says A LOT at least to remotely smart people

 

[stealth]

thanx HULK.
so hulk... since ur not famous for ur intelligence in comic books . tell us. is that why u bought a mac ?was it hard to use a pC ? what were ur main reasons hahaha

 

[hulkaros]

"If it is based on the NT kernel, then it hardly has anything in common with 95/98 and ME which ran on top of DOS. They didn't just delete DOS and replace it with the NT kernel. Instead, they took 2000 and scaled it down."

Yep... They created a scaled down OS which called: XtraPain because it lacks the things that made NT 5 a STABLE + ADVANCED OS...

"I like XP, its rock solid. Once they get the UI right and develop their bundled apps some more, its going to be pretty hard to beat.
Put it this way, it takes MS several tries to get anything they release right, (IE, WMP, Office, etc), but once they do, like it or not, they're pretty damn good apps and everyone else finds themselves trying to play catch-up."

Yep! Catch-up because of again and again installing SO many Service Packs and Web Updates only to find out that a new hole needs to be covered with ANOTHER patch and/or also a new virus wreak havoc which needs ANOTHER update or even a special download!

"Also, I find it comical that this thread went from a MHz debate to a OS flame-war. Has Mac hardware fallen that far behind that bashing Windows is a last line of defense?"

You know what? I find comical the fact that PC fans (which the best part is when they call themselves realists + open minded ) come here with cheap lines like the following...

"Stay on topic. A $400 Dell Desktop beat a $3600 PowerMac. Discuss!"

Which is THE cheap line because the $400 Dull cannot touch the Dual Mac not only in price levels but in capabilities too! And like PC fans boring us, I will retaliate by boring them some more: The Dull LACKS (to say the least) the following...
-Mac OS X.x.x and its iApps
-Hard Disk size
-Graphics card
-Extra Hard Disk slots
-SuperDrive
-Built-in Airport
-USB Optical Mouse
-USB Keyboard with USB connectors
-ADC connector
-DVI connector
-RAM
-64 bit PCI slots
-10/100/1000 network
-A gorgeous Mini Tower box
-FireWire ports
-Apple Pro Speakers connector
-And last but NOT least the legendary Apple inside, out and all over it

 

[hulkaros]

Originally posted by stealth
thanx HULK.
so hulk... since ur not famous for ur intelligence in comic books . tell us. is that why u bought a mac ?was it hard to use a pC ? what were ur main reasons hahaha

Me: HULKAROS! Hulkaros smash puny Stealth... When Hulkaros done smashing puny Stealth, HULKAROS will smash HULK... Always puny humans confuse Hulkaros with fake Hulk

Hulkaros had many puny Wintel/Amd boxes which with one punch smashed... ALWAYS... Sometimes Hulkaros was confused because even without him smashing, the PCs ALWAYS destroyed

Now, Hulkaros happy because found only one thing stronger than his punches: A Mac! No matter how hard Hulkaros smashes: Mac always welcomes Hulkaros back!

Hulkaros says you not believe things you read about Hulkaros intelligence... Stories people use puny PCs because Mac is too strong for them

 

[kendall]

Everyone seems to miss the point of the comparison in regards to the specific tests.

Its not whether the PC has OS X, iApps, AirPort and whatever else a PowerMac has, its that for $400, a pro digital photography solution is available in a PC that out performs a $3600 PowerMac in that specific arena. An arena that is supposed to be the PowerMac's strong suit.

Make excuses all you want but that's the facts Jack.

 

[stealth]

what u lack to see kendall is that the dell probably sucks in multi tasking. and a pro digital photographer NEEDS to 2 more than 1 thing at a time if he can convert 1 image to something else 2 times faster than a mac thats good but what happens when he wants to 2 more than that at the same time? will he even attempt to do it? or is he afraid to press the button (in case that blue terrifyin screen appears again?)

 

[hulkaros]

Originally posted by kendall
Everyone seems to miss the point of the comparison in regards to the specific tests.

Its not whether the PC has OS X, iApps, AirPort and whatever else a PowerMac has, its that for $400, a pro digital photography solution is available in a PC that out performs a $3600 PowerMac in that specific arena. An arena that is supposed to be the PowerMac's strong suit.

Make excuses all you want but that's the facts Jack.

Kendal let me put it this way because YOU are making YOUR facts:
-P3/1GHz, 1GB RAM, CD-RW 48x, 120GB HD, GeForce 4600ti
-P4/2GHz, 128 MB RAM, CD-ROM, 20GB HD, TNT2
Which one do you honestly believe is a better computer?

I'll go with the first choise... The same with the Dual Mac... Or drop that! I will go with ANY PC which costs $3000 more than the Dull one even with another Dull which costs $3000 more than the el cheapo $400... Now fact this up!

 

[kendall]

OS X is very poor at multitasking without more than 512MB of RAM.

XP doesn't have this problem. It handles virtual memory a lot better.

I have a SMP P3 1GHz PC and haven't used a UP PC for awhile but I don't consider multitasking one of OS X's strong suits. At least not with a UP Mac compared to a UP PC.

In Windows XP I am simultaneously transcoding four 2hr+ DivX files to MPEG2. I'm using 90% of two CPUs but less than 300MB of RAM. I can't even run Jaguar with a few apps open with less than 300MB of RAM. My box doesn't crash, my MPEGs encode fine and I am able to do this and anything else I need without any problems.

I use Windows everyday and know it works. I love OS X to but when people bash Windows, I can't help but feel its out of ignorance, because I know it works.