Microsoft tries to steal Macworld thunder

hulkaros

The Incredible...
Let's just say that one has 3 or 4 Macs and decides to buy Jaguar: He goes on and installs it on all 3 or 4 machines, no problem whatsoever... (his powermac, his wife's ibook, his tibook, his children emac)

Now, let's just say that one has 3 or 4 pcs and decides to buy windows 2000 pro: He goes on an installs it on all 3 or 4 machines and still NO problem whatsoever...

Finally, let's just say the above guy decides to buy XP in order to use it in all his machines... Nope! Boom! Kaboom! He cannot do that because he cannot activate the XtraPain in no more than 2 machines and in some cases no more than 1 ;) What can he do? Buy MORE licenses from M$ of course!

Since when copying Audio CDs, movies, etc. is illegal? Since big companies like M$ got more greedy that is! Let's just say that I want to copy an Audio CD: I can use ANY tape recorder, mini disc recorder, etc. As for movies I could use a VCR, a video camera and so on... So why all that big deal with MP3 and DivX? If this is not GREED then what is? First they provided consumers with the tools to copy EVERYTHING and then they went on and told them that if they do that they are acting illegal... This is NAZI's behavior and M$ is their leader which if you ask me, Bill Gates is worst than Hitler in any area... If Hitler destroyed Europe, Bill Ga-y-tes destroyed the whole world ;) Nazi's ordered people during the WWII to stay at their houses after 20:00 or they would be executed... It is common behavior of Nazi's and dictators to order people what to do, how to do it and when they will do it! And M$, especially after XtraPain, is acting in the same way like them BIG time and the only thing that we can do is buy and use anything NON-M$, non-Intel, et al... :D

And yes anyone using XP or any other product that will come from M$ is their muppet wither he/she likes it or not! If someone wants to be really free he/she better buy a Mac ASAP... :D
 

voice-

Registered
Originally posted by hulkaros
Let's just say that one has 3 or 4 Macs and decides to buy Jaguar: He goes on and installs it on all 3 or 4 machines, no problem whatsoever... (his powermac, his wife's ibook, his tibook, his children emac)

Now, let's just say that one has 3 or 4 pcs and decides to buy windows 2000 pro: He goes on an installs it on all 3 or 4 machines and still NO problem whatsoever...

Finally, let's just say the above guy decides to buy XP in order to use it in all his machines... Nope! Boom! Kaboom! He cannot do that because he cannot activate the XtraPain in no more than 2 machines and in some cases no more than 1 ;) What can he do? Buy MORE licenses from M$ of course!
Actually, when you purchase Mac OS X or any Windwos(2000 Pro included) you agree to limit yourself to one computer. Once you break that you are breaking an agrrment and the law. The fact that XP prevents users from doing this is NOT a good point
Originally posted by hulkaros
Since when copying Audio CDs, movies, etc. is illegal? Since big companies like M$ got more greedy that is! Let's just say that I want to copy an Audio CD: I can use ANY tape recorder, mini disc recorder, etc. As for movies I could use a VCR, a video camera and so on... So why all that big deal with MP3 and DivX? If this is not GREED then what is? First they provided consumers with the tools to copy EVERYTHING and then they went on and told them that if they do that they are acting illegal... This is NAZI's behavior and M$ is their leader which if you ask me, Bill Gates is worst than Hitler in any area... If Hitler destroyed Europe, Bill Ga-y-tes destroyed the whole world ;) Nazi's ordered people during the WWII to stay at their houses after 20:00 or they would be executed... It is common behavior of Nazi's and dictators to order people what to do, how to do it and when they will do it! And M$, especially after XtraPain, is acting in the same way like them BIG time and the only thing that we can do is buy and use anything NON-M$, non-Intel, et al... :D
OK, this is REALLY stupid. Yes, you have rights to use your CDs and movies in any way you please, but not to share the copies. How this is related to Nazis I don't know. You CHOOSE to use a Microsoft product, they don't force you...yet...
with Nazis you had no option.
Originally posted by hulkaros
Bill Ga-y-tes
That's just childish
 

googolplex

jeff.hume.ca
azosx, please respond to my post. Don't back away from answering. You are totally ignoring the points you don't have arguements against.
 

azosx

Banned
Originally posted by hulkaros
Let's just say that one has 3 or 4 Macs and decides to buy Jaguar: He goes on and installs it on all 3 or 4 machines, no problem whatsoever... (his powermac, his wife's ibook, his tibook, his children emac)

Now, let's just say that one has 3 or 4 pcs and decides to buy windows 2000 pro: He goes on an installs it on all 3 or 4 machines and still NO problem whatsoever...

Finally, let's just say the above guy decides to buy XP in order to use it in all his machines... Nope! Boom! Kaboom! He cannot do that because he cannot activate the XtraPain in no more than 2 machines and in some cases no more than 1 ;) What can he do? Buy MORE licenses from M$ of course!

Since when copying Audio CDs, movies, etc. is illegal? Since big companies like M$ got more greedy that is! Let's just say that I want to copy an Audio CD: I can use ANY tape recorder, mini disc recorder, etc. As for movies I could use a VCR, a video camera and so on... So why all that big deal with MP3 and DivX? If this is not GREED then what is? First they provided consumers with the tools to copy EVERYTHING and then they went on and told them that if they do that they are acting illegal... This is NAZI's behavior and M$ is their leader which if you ask me, Bill Gates is worst than Hitler in any area... If Hitler destroyed Europe, Bill Ga-y-tes destroyed the whole world ;) Nazi's ordered people during the WWII to stay at their houses after 20:00 or they would be executed... It is common behavior of Nazi's and dictators to order people what to do, how to do it and when they will do it! And M$, especially after XtraPain, is acting in the same way like them BIG time and the only thing that we can do is buy and use anything NON-M$, non-Intel, et al... :D

And yes anyone using XP or any other product that will come from M$ is their muppet wither he/she likes it or not! If someone wants to be really free he/she better buy a Mac ASAP... :D
Buying one copy of OS X to install on multiple systems is not legal nor supported by Apple. Apple has just choosen not to incorperate any type of safe guard against this with their retail version. Apple does have a feature however that will not allow OS 9 or X install CDs that ships with their Macs to be installed on other Macs. Damn that Apple, they are surely the devil because of this.

Your whole Nazi comparison is rather silly and obviously the ideas of a mind uneducated in world history. I wont refute but I guarantee others would laugh at it.
 

RyanLang

Charlie Brown
The fact that you say Apple is where it is today because of Microsoft is entirely laughable. Just because Microsoft is a big monopolistic company doesn't mean they got that way because of intelligence and fair play. In all actuality, microsoft is where it is today because of apple. Because apple did the research in the GUI after Xerox lost interest in it and most of xerox's employees went to work at Apple. Then microsoft copied their way into the OS market. And the job they have done is quite dispicable. :mad:
 

azosx

Banned
Originally posted by googolplex
The potential for Palladium to be bad is frightening. Are we not allowed to anticipate what might happen if we give Microsoft this kind of power over our lives and actions. Wake up. Microsoft isn't just going to change their ways. Why would they create a system that would allow them to control everything on your computer all the way down to the chips so you don't use 'unlicensed' software or copy MP3s (even if they are your own)? Is it because they are genuinely interested in your well being or is it because they want to get rich and control things.

Thats an easy question to answer.

If we don't worry about it before it arrives it is too late. Things like this have to be stopped before they are implemented. Once Microsoft gets all the brainless suckers into its trap there is no turning back. Thats why we worry now.

I could also point out a few key flaws in the idea behind Palladium as well and how it wouldn't work. DO you want me to explain?
I was hardly avoiding your post. I just have so many to reply to it's hard to keep up. I'll make yours the last.

First let me ask you the question, other than bitching and moaning about how potentially dangerous MS is, what do you actually do to prohibit them from controlling you or millions of others? If you're writting this on a Mac then the answer is quite simple, very little.

Second, are you part of the Palladium consortium? Are you a Palladium engineer? Honestly, do you know anything about Palladium other than what you've read from a MS biased source? The answer is quite simple, no you don't.

Third, you can worry about something all you want but bitching and moaning about it in a Mac forum is hardly going to stop it from happening. You're doing nothing more than spreading FUD. If you honestly want to take an active stand against MS, write your local Congressman.

Fourth, Microsoft will just be serving the Pallidium technology and implementing it in their own software. What are you going to do when your favorite software companies start incorporating it into their software as well? Yeah, it'll be on the PC but will that make them any less guilty than Microsoft for trying to protect themselves?

Fifth and last, you and I both have no idea if Palladium will see the light of day nor exactly how it will be implemented. Yeah, it has the potential to be terrible but so do a lot of things. My main annoyance with the MS bitching and whining from those who do not want to be controlled is that that is as far as there involvement to stop MS goes. It's pathetic. It's a waste. If you're going to waste the time, at least discuss something that actually exists and has merit, not the what-ifs of the world.
 
Originally posted by voice-

Actually, when you purchase Mac OS X or any Windwos(2000 Pro included) you agree to limit yourself to one computer. Once you break that you are breaking an agrrment and the law. The fact that XP prevents users from doing this is NOT a good point

OK, this is REALLY stupid. Yes, you have rights to use your CDs and movies in any way you please, but not to share the copies. How this is related to Nazis I don't know. You CHOOSE to use a Microsoft product, they don't force you...yet...
with Nazis you had no option.

That's just childish
Took the words RIGHT from my mouth!

NeYo
 

Boeing777

Progressive Rules!
MICROSOFT TO EXIT MAC MARKET IF SALES CONTINUE TO LAG
On the eve of Apple Computer's semiannual MacWorld event, Microsoft
dropped a bombshell on the company: Work harder to accelerate Mac OS X
sales or Microsoft will exit the Mac market forever. Many Mac
developers share this sentiment; Mac OS X has not sold well, as
reported recently in WinInfo Daily UPDATE. Currently, Apple estimates
that as few as 1 to 2 million people have switched to its most recent
OS, despite the fact that OS X has shipped for free on several million
computers. But a more telling figure from Microsoft might put things
in perspective: Sales of Microsoft's OS X-specific Office version,
Office v. X, have been just 300,000 units since the suite went on sale
last year. Microsoft had expected to sell more than 750,000 copies in
the first year. To read the complete story, visit the following URL:
http://www.wininformant.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=25871


It is ironic to read that Microsoft is lecturing Apple on speeding up its OS, whereas the entire world knows just how buggy MS products are.

Apple should invest more on its Office suite as M$ seems to play hard now that Mac is well in its way to become the favourite home computer.

:rolleyes: M$ will use all its power to make sure Apple won't be a threat.
 

googolplex

jeff.hume.ca
Azosx, Microsoft has talked about what palladium could do.

What they might do is besides the point. The point is what it gives them the power to do.

I don't live in the states so I can't write to a congressman. Too bad the government can't follow their own legal system and sentance a guilty criminal.

I don't know many favorite software companies on windows, but I can't see Apple implementing it unless the US government makes this kind of DRM technology mandatory. And if they did do it out of their own free will I'd say screw you and they wouldn't be my favorite anymore.

What is wrong with bring our points of view to people's attention. You seem to be 'bitching and whining' about us expressing a different view point. It isn't a waste. If I can convice one other person to share my opinion then it isn't a waste. If people didn't disscuss the what-ifs there would be big problems. Its better to anticipate a bad thing before it arrives.

What I do to help the 'anti-Microsoft' cause is not use any of their software, support alternative softwareand advocate this view-point. As I am doing now. However you seem to think it is a waste of time. Then of course you are wasting your time as well since you seem to be 'bitching and whining' more then anyone.

You're hostility and attitute is starting to get on my nerves.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Originally posted by azosx
Your third senario was almost a reality. Back in '97 when Apple's boat was about to sink, Rhapsody, which later evolved into OS X was released on Intel. OS X was originally intended to be released on Intel with classic environment and all.

I think Apple was only trying to potition themselves in the market in case the worst case senario came true.

If Apple announces OS X for Intel anytime in the future, you can guarantee the end is near.
I know, but some of your facts are wrong. There were actually _two_ plans. The first one was called 'Star Trek' and was about porting System 7 to the Intel platform back when there was no PowerPC and Apple didn't want to go to the 88000 platform Motorola was promoting as the way out at the time. (The 88K family would have been RISC, too.)

Rhapsody was out for Intel but without any Classic environment. The plan was to have:

- Rhapsody for PowerPC with Yellow Box (Cocoa) and Blue Box (Classic)
- Rhapsody for PC Compatibles with Yellow Box (Cocoa)
- Yellow Box for PC Compatibles running Windows NT

This would have given Apple actually three platforms running 'Mac' software (it would have been OpenStep software, obviously, using the Mac interface on Rhapsody platforms and Windows interface on NT).

This plan was also referred to as 'Star Trek - NeXT Generation'.

But whether Microsoft is good, bad or evil, right now the Macintosh platform needs their support. What this actually means is that we need MS Office. Heck: Even on Linux and Windows there are no real competitors to MS Office. Every competitor needs at LEAST full MS Office support, so the Mac won't survive unless a solution can be presented. And the best (and in my view only at this time) option is MS Office v. X. The graphics and video shops won't leave the Mac just because there's no new version of MS Office (if it's ever gonna happen), but the whole Switch-Campaign just doesn't work if Office's going to vanish. Which means that the Mac will stay below the 5% market share. And even those are a lie: We're at what, 2-4%.

The danger I see lying ahead is that when the press starts saying 'Apple is doomed' again, Apple actually _will_ be doomed again. Last time Microsoft saved us. And Steve Jobs saved us. The iMac revolution saved us. Steve Jobs promised a revolution every year, and this 'plan' started in a good way.

Apple, as a computer hardware and software maker, does actually look quite well today, despite the figures posted today for the last quarter. But it's dependent on a few soft facts that can turn around quickly and let Apple fall flat on its face.

For example, Apple has been viewed as the poster child of the computer manufacturers when speaking of styled computers. Actually, the style of the computers and the OS (Mac OS X) have made it possible that Apple could survive the last two years, when technologically it fell well behind the competition. But every time Apple releases new hardware, their style is on the edge, which can mean that people will either love or hate the machines Apple is building.

If Microsoft stops supporting the Mac totally, Apple will have a very hard time. Let's hope this won't be the case.

Gosh I'm looking forward to see Steve Jobs live on QuickTime in about 13 hours. I hope Akamai does a good job relaying the video.

I hope that Steve:
:( won't take too long to talk about the financial situation, as it's already clear.
:( won't talk about how a 1 GHz G4 is actually better than a 2.4 GHz P4.
:( won't come up with a new 'strategy' like 'digital hub' without delivering products.
:) will come up with a new PowerMacintosh.
:) will show Mac OS X 'Jaguar', spill out the version number, pricing and availability.
:) will talk about the near and far future of the Mac platform.
 

xaqintosh

Master of Reality
If Microsoft Office is gone for mac, Apple will have to create a new Appleworks, which I hear they are already doing, that is even bett, like an iapp, and has full Office cross-compatibility.
 

vertigo

Swollen Member
Here's another scenario:

1. Microsoft announces discontinuation of Mac support. The media goes bonkers, casts Apple as "good as dead."

2. Apple's market share dwindles to the point they can't afford to sustain themselves, much less innovate.

3. Apple announces MacOS X for Intel.

4. Apple drops hardware completely and becomes essentially a software company.

Honestly, this scenario would not be so bad. Apple has always led the way in software innovation and ease of use. Who buys a mac because of Apple's hardware? People use macs, by and large, because of the MacOS. Assuming the above scenario, we would keep using the MacOS, we would just be running it on cheaper, faster (I use the term loosely) hardware. How many times have you heard PC users wish they could run OSX and Apple software? I suspect if Apple became a software company, they would stand a better chance against Microsoft.
 

Boeing777

Progressive Rules!
>>You're hostility and attitute is starting to get on my nerves.<<

That is a waste of time buddy. - If your nerves are bothering you then take some tylenol. Two pills should do the trick.

Macless for few more days b4 my Tibook baby arrives.

:D
 

xaqintosh

Master of Reality
I use Macs because of Hardware, not exclusively, but that is a Big reason in my book. If apple continues the Hardware, but just uses intel chips, that would be better
 

azosx

Banned
Originally posted by googolplex
Azosx, Microsoft has talked about what palladium could do.

What they might do is besides the point. The point is what it gives them the power to do.

I don't live in the states so I can't write to a congressman. Too bad the government can't follow their own legal system and sentance a guilty criminal.

I don't know many favorite software companies on windows, but I can't see Apple implementing it unless the US government makes this kind of DRM technology mandatory. And if they did do it out of their own free will I'd say screw you and they wouldn't be my favorite anymore.

What is wrong with bring our points of view to people's attention. You seem to be 'bitching and whining' about us expressing a different view point. It isn't a waste. If I can convice one other person to share my opinion then it isn't a waste. If people didn't disscuss the what-ifs there would be big problems. Its better to anticipate a bad thing before it arrives.

What I do to help the 'anti-Microsoft' cause is not use any of their software, support alternative softwareand advocate this view-point. As I am doing now. However you seem to think it is a waste of time. Then of course you are wasting your time as well since you seem to be 'bitching and whining' more then anyone.

You're hostility and attitute is starting to get on my nerves.
I don't care if I'm getting on your nerves. I'm not hostile and I only have an attitude towards people who feel the need to spew out garbage.

By favorite companies I mean Adobe, Roxio, Blizzard, Apple, whoever. If somehow you manage to use software from companies that don't produce on both platforms, more power to you. What if Apple implemented Palladium into QuickTime Pro? It's smaller companies like Apple that would have the most to gain from this technology.

What they might do is exactly the point you're trying to push. What-ifs. Unsubstantiated nonsense. Welcome to the Neighborhood of Make Believe.

If you don't live in the States, I'm sure whatever country you live in has some sort of local government offical you can write to.

I don't agree with this but in the United States, it costs about $4,000,000 to put one convicted criminal to death. That is from the first trial to the end sentencing. It can also take 7-10 years before the sentence is carried out. That is for but one person.

Now how can you expect Microsoft, being as big as it is, to be convicted, sentenced and have it carried out over night? They've been found guilty, they will be sentenced and punished, just give it time, that's all we can do.

You're right, it is a waste of my time as well to try and educate biased, closeminded people. It's funny because "Think Different" seems to apply to everyone but Mac users. You all think the same, like some sortof Borg Collective and feed off eachothers insecurities like some sortof disease.

If you could be unbias about your plight with MS, your argument would stand a lot more ground. Unfortunately, 99% of the members here are anti-MS and are unable to discuss boths sides of the issue. Thus, all the discussion becomes is f*ck Microsoft, making it less than intelligent and highly unproductive.
 

azosx

Banned
Originally posted by fryke


I know, but some of your facts are wrong. There were actually _two_ plans. The first one was called 'Star Trek' and was about porting System 7 to the Intel platform back when there was no PowerPC and Apple didn't want to go to the 88000 platform Motorola was promoting as the way out at the time. (The 88K family would have been RISC, too.)

Rhapsody was out for Intel but without any Classic environment. The plan was to have:

- Rhapsody for PowerPC with Yellow Box (Cocoa) and Blue Box (Classic)
- Rhapsody for PC Compatibles with Yellow Box (Cocoa)
- Yellow Box for PC Compatibles running Windows NT

This would have given Apple actually three platforms running 'Mac' software (it would have been OpenStep software, obviously, using the Mac interface on Rhapsody platforms and Windows interface on NT).

This plan was also referred to as 'Star Trek - NeXT Generation'.

But whether Microsoft is good, bad or evil, right now the Macintosh platform needs their support. What this actually means is that we need MS Office. Heck: Even on Linux and Windows there are no real competitors to MS Office. Every competitor needs at LEAST full MS Office support, so the Mac won't survive unless a solution can be presented. And the best (and in my view only at this time) option is MS Office v. X. The graphics and video shops won't leave the Mac just because there's no new version of MS Office (if it's ever gonna happen), but the whole Switch-Campaign just doesn't work if Office's going to vanish. Which means that the Mac will stay below the 5% market share. And even those are a lie: We're at what, 2-4%.

The danger I see lying ahead is that when the press starts saying 'Apple is doomed' again, Apple actually _will_ be doomed again. Last time Microsoft saved us. And Steve Jobs saved us. The iMac revolution saved us. Steve Jobs promised a revolution every year, and this 'plan' started in a good way.

Apple, as a computer hardware and software maker, does actually look quite well today, despite the figures posted today for the last quarter. But it's dependent on a few soft facts that can turn around quickly and let Apple fall flat on its face.

For example, Apple has been viewed as the poster child of the computer manufacturers when speaking of styled computers. Actually, the style of the computers and the OS (Mac OS X) have made it possible that Apple could survive the last two years, when technologically it fell well behind the competition. But every time Apple releases new hardware, their style is on the edge, which can mean that people will either love or hate the machines Apple is building.

If Microsoft stops supporting the Mac totally, Apple will have a very hard time. Let's hope this won't be the case.

Gosh I'm looking forward to see Steve Jobs live on QuickTime in about 13 hours. I hope Akamai does a good job relaying the video.

I hope that Steve:
:( won't take too long to talk about the financial situation, as it's already clear.
:( won't talk about how a 1 GHz G4 is actually better than a 2.4 GHz P4.
:( won't come up with a new 'strategy' like 'digital hub' without delivering products.
:) will come up with a new PowerMacintosh.
:) will show Mac OS X 'Jaguar', spill out the version number, pricing and availability.
:) will talk about the near and far future of the Mac platform.
I certainly don't want to see Apple doomed. I don't understand though why they have become so cocky in the face of Microsoft. At around 3% market share, they certainly don't have much weight to swing around.

Their switch campaign for one is highly provocative. I assume they are betting on the fact that since Microsoft has been convicted as a monopoly, they wouldn't dare pull support for Apple, for that would look like a terribly anti-competitive move.

I don't think Apple owes MS eternal gratitude for helping them out, but I certainly don't think antagonizing them is a good idea. I don't see MS deliberately trying to harm OS X through media or other means.

Jobs is a funny man and his pissing on his partners cost him dearly the first time he was fired/resigned.

Apple is a hardware company first and foremost but over the last two years have let their hardware fall way behind the competition. If the G5 can't deliver and they can't make up for lost MHz, I fear they will be doomed for sure.
 

mdnky

[Bobs/Prog/Design:~] mod%
Staff member
Mod
Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
i suspect the codename Corona came from what they are drinking as they work on it and that the initial release will reflect this. :p

also interesting to note that recent Corona commercials always emphasize that their drinkers are not working - maybe that's where the codename came from. :D
I think you're absolutely correct...the similarities are astounding!

Maybe Micro$uC|< is going to start a brewing monolopy too! I wouldn't put it past them. Someone better warn Budweiser and Miller... :p
 
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