PB Critics tear Apple apart
- Thread starter GroundZeroX
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lol (in general, not at you)... I WISH!!!!
Forgive me, but this is not true at all. I really wish it were. Successful presentations get the point across in the least amount of time. That's about it. Like I said, if "flash" is required, then you wouldn't need Keynote--you may go BB's way and use Flash or something that really shows a different approach--but that's only if you're selling style in iteself. Usually if style is an issue you're talking about a really big multimedia presnetation way beyond the scope of Keynote or PowerPoint.
But I'm not going to hack this to bits... when the day comes you have to give a big presentation and decide to fluff it up with BS, then may the Gods be with you.
MacLuv: no worries..
dude, I agree, no more hacking to bits...
but I don't think if someone takes a little extra time ( and as "wiz" pointed out, keynote is only $99 ) and a little extra effort into the graphic-visual display of your presentation, it COULD be the difference between a GOOD presentation, to a GREAT presentation..
and I don't think if you get your visuals to truly accentuate your key points, it is not BS, but a nice extra kick....
anywho.. those who don't want keynote, don't have to buy it, those that do, will..
cheers
no worries.. dude, I agree, no more hacking to bits... but I don't think if someone takes a little extra time ( and as "wiz" pointed out, keynote is only $99 ) and a little extra effort into the graphic-visual display of your presentation, it COULD be the difference between a GOOD presentation, to a GREAT presentation..
and I don't think if you get your visuals to truly accentuate your key points, it is not BS, but a nice extra kick....
anywho.. those who don't want keynote, don't have to buy it, those that do, will..
cheers
leadfootedfool
Registered
DazedAndConfuse
Registered
As someone who give presentations almost every day, here is my take on Keynote...
Those who say that all the flashy wizz-bang gizmos do not sell things are right. Those who say that the presentation that wins is the one that gets the message across quickly are right. That's not what Keynote is about though.
I've sat through more PowerPoint slide shows than I care to remember. They all look like PowerPoint slideshows. You can actually get distracted by the 'clunkiness' of the program. Where Keynote wins out is in how clean and simple it is. It is the difference between professional, and amateur.
First impressions do count. A lot. Subtle effects can help to build this impression. When you watch a keynote by Jobs you know that he isn't using PowerPoint. That's not because the next slide appears on one side of a rotating cube - notice he never used that effect himself - but because it looks like the slides are professionally prepared. Have you ever seen the difference between a report typeset with Latex, and one produced in Word? That is the difference between the slide output with these two packages. Trust me, pro quality slides DO make a difference.
Forget the 3-D animations, the textures, etc. That is not what Keynote is about. Keynote is about producing presentation quality output. That is something that PowerPoint just does not do.
DC.
Those who say that all the flashy wizz-bang gizmos do not sell things are right. Those who say that the presentation that wins is the one that gets the message across quickly are right. That's not what Keynote is about though.
I've sat through more PowerPoint slide shows than I care to remember. They all look like PowerPoint slideshows. You can actually get distracted by the 'clunkiness' of the program. Where Keynote wins out is in how clean and simple it is. It is the difference between professional, and amateur.
First impressions do count. A lot. Subtle effects can help to build this impression. When you watch a keynote by Jobs you know that he isn't using PowerPoint. That's not because the next slide appears on one side of a rotating cube - notice he never used that effect himself - but because it looks like the slides are professionally prepared. Have you ever seen the difference between a report typeset with Latex, and one produced in Word? That is the difference between the slide output with these two packages. Trust me, pro quality slides DO make a difference.
Forget the 3-D animations, the textures, etc. That is not what Keynote is about. Keynote is about producing presentation quality output. That is something that PowerPoint just does not do.
DC.
lol... sure it does...
I'm not saying you shouldn't be professional, but the level of "professionalism" you need to get the job done is available in PowerPoint. You're suggesting that Keynote is incapable of allowing humans to put a hack job together if they use it, which is not true. A bad presentation is a bad presentation--the software makes little difference. (Like saying people will become Ansel Adams with a Canon Sure Shot Supreme).MacLuv wrote:
So you would rather bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator instead? Youre contradicting yourself. You cant say it doesnt matter about the quality or style of things and then say you dont believe in mediocrity either....what the??
Im not trying to flame you, but as a designer, Im sick and tired of people who have no clue whatsoever about the creative process and its value towards the creation of products...even presentations. Sure, Keynote's set of graphics are bit fluffy but they do a hell of better job than some of the shite Ive seen on powerpoint. Its only a consumer app sure, but I remember something about how you can customise the look of things with it which is great for people who dont want complicated presentations (was Steve's efforts that bad?) Geez...
So you would rather bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator instead? Youre contradicting yourself. You cant say it doesnt matter about the quality or style of things and then say you dont believe in mediocrity either....what the??
Im not trying to flame you, but as a designer, Im sick and tired of people who have no clue whatsoever about the creative process and its value towards the creation of products...even presentations. Sure, Keynote's set of graphics are bit fluffy but they do a hell of better job than some of the shite Ive seen on powerpoint. Its only a consumer app sure, but I remember something about how you can customise the look of things with it which is great for people who dont want complicated presentations (was Steve's efforts that bad?) Geez...
ApeintheShell
Registered
The writer of this article is obviously an outsider to anything computer related. Like many cnet writers he is a financialist proclaiming to know all but not taking the chance to research a product. Even i can go to apple.com effortlessly.
If you recall Daze and Confuse post he summed up the purpose for keynote and why powerpoint does not work. I see an end to that discussion.
As for the 17 inch powerbook. If he felt the need to compare it to a vaio, he has never used the two side by side.
Gateway and Compaq are the worst examples of the digital hub because they basically followed the flow of apple.
It all comes down to your average user. They see these products apple sells, they like them, soon instead of watching television they are making a slideshow, movie, dvd, managing their music collection. I didn't even care about the above until apple introduced me to it.
In conclusion, people can change for the better.
Apple just gives them the perks of being there.
Mac Luv...if you can take a computer without design good for you. As for me, the macintosh makes completes my user experience.
If you recall Daze and Confuse post he summed up the purpose for keynote and why powerpoint does not work. I see an end to that discussion.
As for the 17 inch powerbook. If he felt the need to compare it to a vaio, he has never used the two side by side.
Gateway and Compaq are the worst examples of the digital hub because they basically followed the flow of apple.
It all comes down to your average user. They see these products apple sells, they like them, soon instead of watching television they are making a slideshow, movie, dvd, managing their music collection. I didn't even care about the above until apple introduced me to it.
In conclusion, people can change for the better.
Apple just gives them the perks of being there.
Mac Luv...if you can take a computer without design good for you. As for me, the macintosh makes completes my user experience.
Cat
Registered
Well said Giaguara!
I also believe the vaio hasn't got Firewire 800, USB ports on both sides and I really doubt it to be only 1" thick. The best argument is still: "It aint an Apple"
BTW: who ever claimed sales representatives would be the only ones ever to use digital slide shows? If I'm not mistaken there are plenty of other people around that use slide apps: e.g. teachers & students. I've seen plenty of lectures given with PP... and they were not about getting the message across quickly, but thoroughly. Images can say mare than a hundred words, and I'm not talking about charts. E.g. brain images and eeg scans, (f)MRI scans. Full apha-channel support is going to matter a lot in these cases. Does PP have that?
edX
mac shaman
aside from David coursey who seems to be a legitimate 'adder', the rest of the zd net staff never quite gets it.
i particularly liked this feedback in the talkback section.
would it be out of line for me to agree with the author of the article and agree that the average consumer is a simpleton when it comes to computers?
now as for the keynote discussion here, i'll just say that i think both sides have their points. but from what i saw of keynote while playing it with it at MWSF, like macluv describes powerpoint, it's real advantage isn't in the bells and whistles but in being able to put together a nice clean presentation in an easily managable way. i actually had the help guy give me a presentation of keynote and that was the biggest thing i walked away with.
but macluv, you're acting like business is all that matters here (your world) and forgetting all the other potential uses for somethinglike this - like in classrooms where students fall asleep during boring presentations. Creatively it could be used to make a great resume presentation in certain fields. And yea, mom and dad could put together a photo album and send it to grandma who will ooh and ahh for weeks.
the shortcomings that you ascribe to keynote aren't keynote's fault, they're the users fault. and i'm sure plenty of pwerpoint users have made those mistakes as well. knowing when to use what features is part of what seperates a pro from an amateur. but keynote seems to me like it will work well for either.
i particularly liked this feedback in the talkback section.
would it be out of line for me to agree with the author of the article and agree that the average consumer is a simpleton when it comes to computers?
now as for the keynote discussion here, i'll just say that i think both sides have their points. but from what i saw of keynote while playing it with it at MWSF, like macluv describes powerpoint, it's real advantage isn't in the bells and whistles but in being able to put together a nice clean presentation in an easily managable way. i actually had the help guy give me a presentation of keynote and that was the biggest thing i walked away with.
but macluv, you're acting like business is all that matters here (your world) and forgetting all the other potential uses for somethinglike this - like in classrooms where students fall asleep during boring presentations. Creatively it could be used to make a great resume presentation in certain fields. And yea, mom and dad could put together a photo album and send it to grandma who will ooh and ahh for weeks.
the shortcomings that you ascribe to keynote aren't keynote's fault, they're the users fault. and i'm sure plenty of pwerpoint users have made those mistakes as well. knowing when to use what features is part of what seperates a pro from an amateur. but keynote seems to me like it will work well for either.
Well, I've spent the last ten years of my life learning how to merge "pure business" with "abstract creative". Trying to mix the two for the sake of aesthetics is pointless.
What about those who have no clue where the money comes from to pay the creatives? Somebody's got to tend to the books, brother, and he doesn't have time to watch two hours of a movie to find out the boy gets the girl and they live happily ever after.
One must understand the bottom line as well as the limitless bounds of the imagination. Dig? Somewhere in between the two is good business.
stealth
Banned
first of all. a believe a 12 inch powerbook is a good idea. the 15inch powerbook is quite big. and for businessmen on the go a 12inch is much more convenient. and why not by a 12inch ibook ? well a powerbook is quite fast and can easily be used as a desktop at home when plugged to the power supply. whereas the ibook i believe is not as fast(it may not bee slow. but it wont last us as many years as a powerbook)!!!
as for Keynote; i dont think its a waste of time. what if microsoft-apple break up. what will happen to powerpoint users? they would just be stuck with the current powerpoint version! keynote seems to be its replacement! for those who dont want impressive presentations to show off their product they can still use powerpoint! but I dont believe that keynote IS A WASTE OF TIME!
who said keynote main goal is to make IMPRESSIVE presentations? have u used it? u can make as simple and straight-to-the-point presentations with Keynote as with powerpoint, but NOW u also get the chance to take a step further and be innovative
and its an APPLE product. i prefer using an apple product on my mac than a microsoft product
as for Keynote; i dont think its a waste of time. what if microsoft-apple break up. what will happen to powerpoint users? they would just be stuck with the current powerpoint version! keynote seems to be its replacement! for those who dont want impressive presentations to show off their product they can still use powerpoint! but I dont believe that keynote IS A WASTE OF TIME!
who said keynote main goal is to make IMPRESSIVE presentations? have u used it? u can make as simple and straight-to-the-point presentations with Keynote as with powerpoint, but NOW u also get the chance to take a step further and be innovative
and its an APPLE product. i prefer using an apple product on my mac than a microsoft product
Okay, my main criticisms about Keynote are related to my dissapointment in where I see Apple heading right now. I honestly think Apple is doing everything they can to milk revenue directly from the LAUB without trying to compete head on with Microsoft. Stealth puts it in perspective for others--it's for Apple people, not Microsoft people. It's not going to make people switch--that's my main issue.
BTW-- If Apple was going to x86 I would see Keynote as a step in the right direction...
BTW-- If Apple was going to x86 I would see Keynote as a step in the right direction...
edX
mac shaman
macluv - i sense that you suffer from something similar to what the writer does. he would never make the switch to apple because he's already convinced himself that he has it better with pc's. He is still measuring bottom lines and not evaluating the quality factor and the intangables.
you on the other hand seem dying to make the switch to pc's because you've convinced yourself that they've got it so much better than we do. but deep down you suspect that it isn't true, and if apple would just fix this and release that, then you could feel good about not leaving os x behind. figure it out man, either you're 'on the bus' or you're not. tell it to apple, not to us. and if enough other people tell it to apple, then they'll probably do it. if not, then maybe you would be better suited with a pc. despite all my bashing and joking, there's no crime in being a pc user. but there's also no crime in being happy with our macs and with apple. better to appreciate what you've got than to beat yourself up over what you don't.
(and i'm speaking on more than one level here )
you on the other hand seem dying to make the switch to pc's because you've convinced yourself that they've got it so much better than we do. but deep down you suspect that it isn't true, and if apple would just fix this and release that, then you could feel good about not leaving os x behind. figure it out man, either you're 'on the bus' or you're not. tell it to apple, not to us. and if enough other people tell it to apple, then they'll probably do it. if not, then maybe you would be better suited with a pc. despite all my bashing and joking, there's no crime in being a pc user. but there's also no crime in being happy with our macs and with apple. better to appreciate what you've got than to beat yourself up over what you don't.
(and i'm speaking on more than one level here
)Oh man, you're askin' me to lose my religion... but that's the point... the Apple crowd makes it a crime to own a PC... I think I'd be happy if it were all 50/50 at this point, don't you?
I think the problem with using Apple for greater than 2/3 of my life is that I now suffer from abulia and can't make the leap. Can't you tell?
I think the problem with using Apple for greater than 2/3 of my life is that I now suffer from abulia and can't make the leap. Can't you tell?