Post Election - Chaos?

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fryke said:
And it's not ignorance, it's the consequence of seeing that many Americans (about 49 percent according to the latest polls) _see_ their president lie on TV but don't seem to _look_. They just forget. And ignore. I listen to many, many American people about what the US do in the world, and strange enough: Only those who actually travel the world and _see_ how the image of the USA has been hurt by their president understand why it's very, very important that Bush steps down or simply isn't re-elected.
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So are you saying Kerry doesn't lie? That man has told more fallacies in his political career then Bill Clinton told during his entire term in president (and we know that was a lot).
It doesn't matter if they are Republican or Democrat. It doesn't matter what country it is. All politicians "lie" for their political gain. You can take anything and spin it in your favor. This is not "lying" in the end. It's disinformation and everyone does it when it's for some form of gain.

Yes, Bush might be disliked by the rest of the world, but he does do what he says he's going to do. He doesn't change his mind every 3 seconds.
Okay, so there are lots of things that I don't agree with on the Republican front, but many, many more issues that I disagree with on the Democratic front. Like how they should spend my money.
www.scaryjohnkerry.com
 
"He doesn't change his mind every 3 seconds."

Bush:
"We invade Iraq because they harbor terrorist" (False)
"We invade Iraq because they do not comply with UN regulations" (True)
"We invade Iraq because Saddam is a terrorist" (disputable)
"... because they have WMD" (False)
"... because they have nukes" (False)
"... they have ties with Bin Laden" (False)

All of these and a lot more reasons were given at various moments by the Bush administration. Most of them are false or discutable and it is highly debatable whether they are a sufficient reason to invade a country. Who's flip-flopping here?

After years of wars both Afghanistan and Iraq are far from a normal situation. The highest credit has been turned into the highest debit, millions of jobs have been lost, thousends of soldiers have been killed or maimed for life, about 100.000 innocent civilian victims have been made.

Under Bush the US have violated more international laws and agreements thatn under any other previous president: they pulled out from anti-proliferation treaties and the Kyoto protocol, they violated the Geneva conventions with Guantanamo Bay and the bombing of civilian areas in an occupied country, they violated international laws on unprovoked war.

There sure are a lot of reasons not to vote for Bush, but apparently REpublicans do not care about these things. They do not seem to care about international treaties and organisations of which they are members and which they have helped create. This is a far more dangerous attitude than isolationism.
 
diablojota said:
Yes, Bush might be disliked by the rest of the world, but he does do what he says he's going to do.
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He said he was going to catch Osama Bin Laden, umm...??

Is doing what you say you're going to do a good thing anyway. If I say I'm going to kill you, and then do, is that better than if I say I'm going to kill you, and then I don't?


He doesn't change his mind every 3 seconds.
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or admit he made a mistake, or was mislead or mis-informed.


Oh yeah, you're right, he's pretty damn stubborn (but still fails to get some things done). Is this a good thing??
 
Who's nervous here? Only a few more hours until the election booths close and the mayhem begins. Any predictions of my lovely state of Florida? Or how about Ohio? Too bad we can't bet on this. The person to correctly guess the amount of electoral votes each candidate receives first, wins an ipod??? i'm guessing 269 to 269. god i hope not.
 
bobw said:
269 to 269 :)

Senate votes Bush in as pres
House votes Edwards in as Vice
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But what about Uncle Dick? :p

I'll say it again - I just hope it's fairly clear to one side, who the winner is. then we won't (hopefully - dang lawyers/sore loosers) have to drag this out for the next couple months...
 
This is on a newsgroup my wife reads:

I am worried to death.

I just read in the local paper that Allegheny County, PA (where I
live) has the second-largest numbers of calls in to report possible
voting problems in the USA. (Second after -Broward County, FLA!-) Lots
of people who think they are registered but don't appear on official
lists. Reports of unknown persons calling elderly voters and telling
them that, because of expected high turnouts, voting has been split over
two days...Republicans should vote on Tuesday and Dems on Wed!

Meanwhile, someone from Moveon.org just came to my door and told me
that in some areas of my borough (tha' hood area, to be exact), people
have been showing up to vote at the place where their registration card
says to go, only to be told that it's wrong and they need to go to some
other location. They can't vote using provisional ballots because the
polling place had only been issued -twelve-!! And of course, this is
happening in a strongly pro-Kerry district.

I can't believe that my own little Allegheny corrupt-s***hole-of-a
County is shaping up to be the Florida of 2004.

I think I need to puke now.
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:eek:
 
what the hell is wrong with us? can't we just all vote and declare a new president? this is ridiculous. i cannot stand this corruption! you know what else i can't stand? Nader is on the ballot here in florida, and he already has 6,000 votes. it still infuriates me to see people voting for nader! grrr :mad:
 
fryke said:
grep said: "Actually, the most serious threat to freedom and peace in the world today is Osama bin laden and his holy war - this includes his soldiers and supporters, and they reside in the midddle east, not the USA."

Actually, that's where we differ, dear grep. Simply, and definitely, differ.

grep also said: "Also, the USA is not spreading terror - that comment is pure diatribe and an insult to all americans - the USA is fighting terror and will continue to do so."

Sadly, they're not just fighting terror. They're bringing war to countries and fear of war to other countries. Different points of view, but still...

Then grep said: "You should really be more carefull about what you blurt out in ignorance,it does not reflect well on your character."

I can only say that the same goes for you, grep. Please see that I _am_ careful (that's how it's spelled, by the way) about what I blurt out. And it's not ignorance, it's the consequence of seeing that many Americans (about 49 percent according to the latest polls) _see_ their president lie on TV but don't seem to _look_. They just forget. And ignore. I listen to many, many American people about what the US do in the world, and strange enough: Only those who actually travel the world and _see_ how the image of the USA has been hurt by their president understand why it's very, very important that Bush steps down or simply isn't re-elected.
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When you make rediculous statements like "the US is the biggest threat to freedom and peace in the world outside"
and "Nowadays, they're spreading terror",
you_are_not_being_careful(i spelled it right this time,btw) - you are being a troll.

If you base your opinions on mere polls and whether or not candidates lie, you are misinformed and ignorant of what is actually happening.
 
Hmm, at least most of y'all are going to find out tonight. I have to go into work in an hour; unless my supervisor decides to tell us, we won't be able to find out until tomorrow morning when we get off of work.

Can't even listen to a radio - the Powers That Be decided that radios were a Bad Thing and told us we couldn't have 'em. Blah. :mad:
 
Zammy-Sam said:
Do you think there would have been any terror against the US if they didn't invade other countries to control their treasures of the soil? It would be wonderful if the US was simply into helping other countries, but this is very obviously not the case. I am not insulting the US citizens, but the current US government and their foreign policy. And I believe the citizens do not know what their government is actually doing there. And I am also not supporting the UN. If they were more consequent, they never would have let the US proceed with their attacks against iraq for "their understanding of democracy". Every attack will have another attack for revenge. Which one in this circle is called terror? Hard to say, huh?
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the 9/11 attack did not happen as a result of the US invading other countries to control their treasures of the soil - that is a
ridiculous theory. If that is what you think terrorism is about,
then you are way out of touch with reality.
 
Ohio and Florida at this point are leaning towards Bush. If that happens, then unfortunately, Bush will be the likely winner.
 
its 10:42PM EST

193 Bush

112 Kerry


can anyone say "4 More Wars!" or let's get "Hail to the Chief" replaced by the Imperial March?
 
not over yet, but it's looking like bush is in the lead in both ohio and florida. that's it, i'm moving out of this country.
 
as of right now in florida: 88.7% of votes have been counted. 51.8% of them are to bush. 47.3% to kerry. and 1% to nader.
i don't know about you, but it looks like bush might win florida.
 
:( ohio still has a chance to pull it off.
90.9% counted in florida
3,337,455 (52.1%) going to bush
3,019,548 (47.1%) going to kerry
54,146 (0.8%) going to nader. i hate you nader
difference b/w bush and kerry is slim. we'll see.
 
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