Stupid Move on Apple's part

I agree I was badly informed, I didn't know iDVD, for instance, was already charged.

But I will not pay for, say, iPhoto. My iMac was way more expensive than a PC, I had in mind the fact it came with excellent freeware such as iTunes, iMovie and so on. I will not pay for products I already paid for !

Free iApps were part of the promise Apple made to customers. It's a great lack in their customer relationship if they aren't able to clearly state & explain that only version 1.0 is free.

Never mind. I know I'm not totally right here, but fcuk it ! If Apple asks me to PAY for iPhoto, I'll say no. However, I'm convinced AppleWorks will stay 6.x for a long time, just as iPhoto and the others won't change vers# too quickly.
 
Maybe they should consider making more SKU's of OS X... Say a Business version with no iApps and a Home version that has them.
 
Originally posted by toast
...If Apple asks me to PAY for iPhoto, I'll say no...
I'm very close to switching from iPhoto to iiew Media Pro, and the only reason I haven't yet is because I'm hopefull that a new improved version of iPhoto will be released at MacWorld.

So iView costs $90 and I have some serious usability issues with it. If Apple can improve the feature set to something close to iView, then I WILL pay for it.

(But I understand that I'm probably the exception. I would not expect my Mom to pay for it, nor do I think she should.)

The fact is that Apple probably thought they were going to get lots of $ from folks payng to have pictures printed and made into books... but in my opinion why use digital cameras if your goal it to have paper prints?
 
Well, if iMovie, iPhoto and others still come free with every Mac (but you'd have to pay an upgrade price for a later version), I could live with that, I guess...
 
Do you see Microsoft charging for Windows Movie Maker and Windows Media 9 Series Player and Encoder which are very very much updated versions. No NO No. Windows Media 9 Series has Windows Media lossless and multi-channel high quality codecs. They have added 5.1 surround sound streaming which no other media player supports as of yet. These are much so brand new features that cost money to make and they can still offer it for free. Why can't apple do this if they are indeed thinking different from Microsoft as far as the customer goes. It seems that now Microsoft is the company thinking different as far as the customer goes. If Apple starts charging for any of the iApps and starts charging for OS updates than they are no different than Microsoft. Hey if I keep Windows XP I will get free service pack updates for many years to come and as far as I know the next version of Windows will highly updated and will come out at the earlist in 2005 and will cost me who has Windows XP about 100.00 to 150.00 to upgrade I would assume. Now if Apple comes out in 2004 with a 130.00 update and again in 2005 with a 100.00 update and lets not forget about 2003s 100.00 update. If this happens I believe Apple is now worse than Microsoft as far as a customer is concerned here. I'm not upset with one singular act that Apple is doing now I'm worried about how many other singular acts will follow down the road.

As far as I'm concerned with the new features Microsoft put into Windows Media 9 Series Player and Windows Movie Maker 2 they could of easily charged for these breakthroughs but they didn't. Do you see my point. In my opinion for 5.1 channel support and to be able to encode 5.1 surround without having but buy Minnatonkas software again is well worth a 50.00 upgrade price.
 
You can't compare Microsoft and the their software at this point, they are trying to keep Apple pinned down, thats why it's free and the updates gets better. The truth is the iApps by Apple are better for the nonprofessional, well as far as i'm concerned. Like i said before, unless you know the pain of shelling out big bills for professional software, upgrades to the iApp family will be more than reasonable for the nonprofessional. Look at the huge difference in Photoshop and PS Elements, the price gap is huge, and Elements has a ton of features which kinda pisses me off considering I paid a grand for the Web Design Collection. And as someone pointed out, a lot of us said we doon't really use most apps, so Apple should charge, except iTunes.
 
Originally posted by MLapointe27
Do you see Microsoft charging for Windows Movie Maker and Windows Media 9 Series Player and Encoder which are very very much updated versions.

Not YET.
 
What does Microsoft have to worry about. They control 90% more of the market than Apple. For god sakes Apple has trouble getting it's 5% customer base upgraded to OS X. For every 10 windows computers that are sold there are only 1 mac computer sold based on market share and that's been getting worse for apple. Their problem is price not quality. Most people are very happy with Windows XP as I am overall. So for what you can get for the money on the windows side and with Windows XP which has yet to crash for me since I got it on exactly October 25, 2001. It only crashed when I installed beta software which is too be expected. Most people who use there computers for productive uses don't install beta software when Microsoft's website tells them by installing this beta software could cause system instability. So while people can continue to get more and more for their money and have Windows XP which runs great and has sold more than 30 million copies not including corporations buying Windows XP. Microsoft has nothing to worry about as far as apple goes. By Microsoft still offering their software updates free and Apple having to charge for more updates is only going to help Microsoft in the long run. One Mac users keep on paying more and more and getting less and less Mac users will eventually buy a windows as their next computer. You won't get rid of your mac and neither would I but instead of spending bad money after bad money I will spend this money for windows xp hardware and/or software.

So in short by Apple starting to charge for this stuff they are only killing themselves quicker. For Apple to have a chance they have to go to an x86 type line. If they go to AMD that does not mean that you can buy OS X for 130.00 at the store and run it on your existing PC which is what most people think. What it does mean is yes you can run Windows XP and OS X on a dual boot. But Apple can use a non-flashable ROM or something like that that the OS will scan for to allow installation of Mac OS X. So by going to AMD you will still be forced to buy from Apple to get the motherboard with that ROM to be able too install OS X on but it will also allow people like me to also install Windows XP. You will still have to buy from Apple but these computers will still be sexy and the key much cheaper and faster. Since AMD is one of the bigger companies they can make more of these chips faster and cheaper and in bigger quantitys. This in my opinion will be the only way Apple could gain more market share. I will admit their there OS is by fare the best OS around but for most consumers their wallet does the looking and picking of computers. If I can go to a store with a budget of 2000.00 dollars and I can buy a desktop with a Pentium 4 processor and at least 1Gig of Ram and a DVD-burner and a 19 or 21 inch flat panel monitor. For most consumers parts they would sacrafise the best OS that's mac and go with Windows XP which isn't exactly bad and get all of this extra hardware such as more RAM, faster processor, better video card, better sound card, a much bigger monitor. I will in all probability continue to buy Macs for myself because I don't have nere to budget constraints that most consumers do but there are not nearly as many people like me as their are average people and Apple needs to make a dent on these average people because the high end consumers will never make up for Microsofts 50%+ average consumers. It's just as simple as that.
 
Now I'm not a professional as far as using my computer and let me tell their are a lot of music and TV buffs that are not experts who all love Windows Media 9 Series. Apples products are way better than Microsofts products...you are way wrong. Does apples iTunes allow me to stream 5.1 surround sound. Does Apples iTunes allow me to make my own 5.1 surround sound mix without having to buy a Minnetonka products for thousands of dollars. Does Apples iTunes allow me to rip lossless audio of of my cds at smaller file sizes. No No No. I can't say anything about iPhoto because I haven't used Windows Movie Maker so I'm just talking about Windows Media 9 series. I can buy a DVD player for 200.00 that supports Windows Media 9 series and when hooked up with an HDTV big screen I can encode my home videos in Windows Media Video 9 in High Definition quality. I have on Time Warner Cable a Music Video on demand channels that has some new songs in DD5.1 and so buy hooking up my cable box to my soundblaster live drive using the digital out by just following easy menus that anyone can use i can encode this music video in HDTV 1080i resolution and in Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound and with my DVD burner I can burn this onto a blank DVD in its native WMA format and when played on my Windows Media capable DVD player using the component input on my HDTV I can watch this music video in HDTV with Dolbly Digital 5.1 surround sound.

You tell me right now if Apple iTunes can do this right now without any extra software and I'll shut up. If you can find other software that can do this for free (not demo or shareware) with iTunes you tell me and I'll shut up.( I know if you pirat software you can do it but me nor the average consumer pirats software so don't mention it) It has to be totally legally free. My mother has done this herself with a little bit of my help and she doesn't work in any computer related field nor has she ever worked in this field.
 
The debate is getting too precise and complicated on video for me.

My point stays: free iApps are one of Apple's strengths. If they decide to charge them, they're shooting themselves in the foot (I'm talking of iPhoto).
 
I wasn't comparing iTunes when i said iApp family, i was refering to the ones they will charge for. Although i did see a photo app on Windows that was, well i hate to admit it, but it just blew me away. HDTV has no set standard, so no big deal on jumping on that at this point, but the fact that it is being done is kinda sweet. As far as proccessors, i don't care, I just want pure speed, NO HANGUPS, and I'll be satisfied till a newer chip is released. I've been using Apple since I was around 6 or so, I used Windows, it doesn't work as good, give me a Mac any day. Like i said, the iApp family is great for the nonpro, useless for me, although i use iPhoto once in a blue moon.
 
by MLapointe27:
Hey if I keep Windows XP I will get free service pack updates for many years to come and as far as I know the next version of Windows will highly updated and will come out at the earlist in 2005 and will cost me who has Windows XP about 100.00 to 150.00 to upgrade I would assume. Now if Apple comes out in 2004 with a 130.00 update and again in 2005 with a 100.00 update and lets not forget about 2003s 100.00 update.

Okay, reality break! Lets make sure we are comparing these operating systems correctly here.

First, Apple: I paid about $100 for Mac OS 8 and nothing for 8.1. I paid about $100 for Mac OS 8.5 (about a year and a half after 8.0) and nothing for 8.6. I paid about $100 for Mac OS 9 (another year and a half after 8.5) and nothing for 9.1 and 9.2. I paid $30 for Mac OS X Public Beta, about $100 for Mac OS X 10.0 and nothing for 10.1. After 17 months with 10.0 and 10.1 (23 months if we count the Public Beta) I paid about $130 for 10.2. I have never paid for an x.x.1 increase from Apple and most x.1 increases have been free.

Now Microsoft: I seem to remember upgrading from Windows NT 3.51 to Windows NT 4.0 for a little more than $200. All 6 service packs were free for Windows NT 4.0. Then Microsoft released Windows 2000 Professional (aka NT 5.0) which was close to a $300 upgrade. Again, service packs have been free. And now Microsoft has released Windows XP (aka NT 5.1) for another $200 for the upgrade. I'm sure the service packs are going to be free again, but just wait for the NT 5.2 upgrade price!

Now I'm not a professional as far as using my computer... (on and on and on)

No No No, I can't afford any of that hardware to even consider what you are talking about. Forget about stealing software, I would have to steal to get the hardware! Also how is this supposed to look compared to your first post (Macs as rewards for your best employees), :rolleyes: I'm finding all this way out of character. You don't seem to know Macs but you sure seem to know Windows (to a greater degree).

Yep Yep Yep, No-No-No-Guy doesn't seem to fit the bill.
 
by the No-No-No-Guy:
For god sakes Apple has trouble getting it's 5% customer base upgraded to OS X.

And how long did it take Microsoft to move their customers to Windows NT?

(note: Windows NT 3.1 was release July 17th 1993 for those trying to figure it out)
 
Microsoft was never trying to move all their customers to NT. They have yet to terminate support for Windows 98.

I think Apple is in a bit of a bind. According to several sources, the "switch" campaign has done absolutely nothing for them. Windows users aren't coming over plain and simple. Apple needs money. Who better to tap then their loyal user base? I'm sorry but some of you are fanatics and would buy dog turds if they had an Apple logo on them. Apple knows this and uses it to their advantage quite often.

Significantly faster Macs seem at least a year away if not more. iMac sales are declining sharply. PowerMac sales are next to non existant. The only way to succeed is to be constantly changing. I think Apple is starting to realizing this and trying new things. Hopefully they find the money they need in selling services and software. I think once they do this though, it will enable Microsoft to have a tremendous advantage over them. Microsoft will just make and bundle comparable apps with Windows giving people even less reason to switch to a Mac.
 
by kendall:
Microsoft was never trying to move all their customers to NT. They have yet to terminate support for Windows 98.

Actually that is not true. From the time that NT was under development, the goal was to drop the 16/32-bit hybrid version of Windows within a short period of time. Microsoft truly believed that people would move to NT 4.0 because it was better than Windows 95/98. They thought that the lack of movement was perception which was why NT 5.0 was renamed 2000 (basically to get people to move to it because it followed in line with the year naming pattern that 95/98 had set. When that didn't work they ended the line with the release of ME and moved everyone over to XP (NT 5.1). They terminated support for Windows 95 last year, and they are terminating support for Windows 98 within the next year. Microsoft (and Gates) got tired of waiting for people to realize that the NT line was a better operating system than the DOS-based Windows, and they forced the issue. They are moving all their customers to NT.

I think Apple is in a bit of a bind. According to several sources, the "switch" campaign has done absolutely nothing for them. Windows users aren't coming over plain and simple. Apple needs money. Who better to tap then their loyal user base? I'm sorry but some of you are fanatics and would buy dog turds if they had an Apple logo on them. Apple knows this and uses it to their advantage quite often.

Thanks for the gloom-and-doom report, nice to see you never change on the issues. I haven't seen reports either way (other than a few articles which can't keep the facts straight to begin with, which in my book makes them poor sources). As for fanatics and your tasteless choice of descriptions of them, I can't say either way. I personally use and have paid for alternatives to apps I've gotten for free from Apple (both Apple products and MS products bundled with my systems). I have always used what works best for me, if Apple makes it or not. As Apple is making enough good products and they are no where near the state they were in back in the dark times (which was not during an industry wide depression), I still don't see where Apple has anything to fear... or Apple users for that matter.

Sorry to disappoint you, but having watched Apple through all of it's ups and downs, I would have a hard time classifying this as a down time. But don't feel bad, maybe next year they'll be in the hard times you always seem to be wishing on them. Like all those other people who have been predicting the death of Apple, if you keep saying the same thing long enough some day you may actually be right. ;)
 
Do you have a better explaination of why Apple has decided to charge for .Mac and now possiblely select iApps? Its not doom and gloom, its a simple fact. sorry to disappoint you but you failed to quote me mentioning that Hopefully they find the money they need in selling services and software.:rolleyes: Somehow you interpreted a bit of a bind as me predicting the death of Apple. Interesting. I guess it makes your reply that much stronger?

Also, unlike Apple, MS didn't kill support for Windows 95/98 like Apple did with OS 9. If MS truly wanted all users over to NT, they could have killed 98 long ago and forgot about backwards compatibility. Also, few home PCs shipped with Windows NT/2000? If Microsoft was adamant about users switching to NT, wouldn't they have seen to it that the PC companies shipped NT/2000 instead of 95/98? I think there is very little truth behind what you are saying. Now with an NT OS across the line they are moving people to NT but I highly doubt that was their goal since 1993 as you are suggesting.
 
as long as they don't start charging in another package for the other apps, i'll pony up 50 bucks for those apps if they're much improved.

if they start charging 50 or so for an ichat, ical, itunes bundle.... no way jose.
 
Actually that is not true. From the time that NT was under development, the goal was to drop the 16/32-bit hybrid version of Windows within a short period of time. Microsoft truly believed that people would move to NT 4.0 because it was better than Windows 95/98. They thought that the lack of movement was perception which was why NT 5.0 was renamed 2000 (basically to get people to move to it because it followed in line with the year naming pattern that 95/98 had set. When that didn't work they ended the line with the release of ME and moved everyone over to XP (NT 5.1). They terminated support for Windows 95 last year, and they are terminating support for Windows 98 within the next year. Microsoft (and Gates) got tired of waiting for people to realize that the NT line was a better operating system than the DOS-based Windows, and they forced the issue. They are moving all their customers to NT.

Get your facts right. Microsoft has wanted to move people to a pure 32-bit OS for years, but they never wanted to do so with NT 4.0. NT 4.0 was meant strictly as a corporate workstation, and having worked with it, I can tell you it was a pure nightmare to set up in terms of driver installation and such. That was the first major strike against NT 4.0 as a consumer OS. The other major strike was that driver support was nowhere near as broad as Win95 at the time, so it was extremely unfriendly in terms of compatibility for stuff like joysticks and other consumer gear. And NT 4.0 couldn't run DOS apps like games, which directly accessed the system hardware themselves. That violated NT's security model where the kernel is the traffic cop handling all calls to the hardware, not the applications.

With Windows 2000, Microsoft managed to vastly improve installation and management. Plug and Play and all that other stuff had been successfully integrated into the NT kernel. The driver database was there. Still, it wasn't quite ready for consumer prime time because of trouble with certain Win9x aplications, mainly games. That's why Windows 2000 Professional was geared toward corporate workstations, and an interim version of Win9x (the deservedly much-hated Windows Me was developed).

With WindowsXP, Microsoft has finally completed the migration to a pure 32-bit OS for both consumers and professionals. They incoporated better legacy support for apps, even throwing in a Compatibility Mode function that allows the OS to fool the application that it's running in Win9x. Driver support is massive. Application support is massive. Stability and Reliability are there. All future Microsoft OS' will be built on the XP/NT technology. There will no longer be two seperate OS lines built on DOS and NT, they will all share the same NT codebase from this point out. That is what Microsoft has been wanting to do since 1994, and they finally got there. And now they're at this point, they're actively pushing their consumer customers to upgrade to XP for the same reason Apple is pushing its customers to upgrade to Jaguar; XP is a better OS in terms of security, reliability, stability, speed, and multimedia. But unlike Apple, MS still continues to support its older OS'.

While it's true that this doesn't include Win95, it's also true that Microsoft has publicly stated (and this is also on their site) that six years is the lifetime they'll actively support an OS version. MS still supports Win98 and WinMe, but Win95 and DOS are both over six years old and now are history. Fair enough, six years is ancient history in computing.

How old is OS 9, and how quickly did Apple kill it's support of it? I bet you it's been far less than 6 years.
 
Originally posted by KKBFiredancer
hmmmm.....im sure everyone is unhappy now, but just like .mac, it will still be a success...

Wasn't a succes in my opinion. Threads about .mac being down have been countless on this board. Plus, many people rejected it completely. It was just a financial success, i.e. it did make some benefits for Apple. If that's the only thing Apple is aiming at, then I don't share a lot with this company any more.

____
Don't they dare charge my iTunes ! :D
 
Back
Top