Thanks Apple

Mosco

Registered
I have a G3 too. But i use that as my home server so watching dvds doesn't matter. it stinks that apple doesn't support the internal decoder. I wonder if you replaced the card with a different one, it would work.

Well, you guys will be really mad when 10.2 comes out. Because it won't run on g3s or g4s.
 

jove

Member
Admiral - sorry for putting you in the same category as the entitlement-victims :) I got a little carried away with my rant.
 

knussear

Registered
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
I am ticked off... but I dont feel like a victim :p

I think I will stick to OS 9 as my mian OS and have OS X as my developemnt OS to do HTML-ing, JAVA-ing and C-ing.

I RE-installed OS X cleanly *again* today, having all drives on but burn would not install.

I check OrangeMicro's site to see if they had anything for OS X but they did not. SCSI has been *fundemental* to the macs since the 128k mac I think. There has always been SCSI support. I can understand the need to cut off serial support but why not develop SCSI support right away? I cannot use my Zip drive nor my CD-RW (even to read CDs) in OS X

As for the DVD, I am just ticked because they said DVD by 10.1 with no fine print.

Ah shucks... anyway... Just my 2 cents ;)


Admiral
you might try giving orange micro a call. I have an orginal beige g3 tower with an orange micro firewire card intstalled, which originally did not work with 10.0.4, and they e-mailed me (within minutes) a beta driver which still works to this day. Perhaps they have a similir scsi solution inthe works?
 

symphonix

Scratch & Sniff Committee
I switched to Mac with the release of the iceBook this year, and am amazed at the number of complaints I've seen about, especially in light of the technology on the intel platforms.
Linux only got "finished" USB support in March this year. I have yet to see a WM on any Unix OS fit to lick Aqua's boots in terms of performance and efficiency. It's theming abilities are no match for Enlightenment, Afterstep or KDE, but the upside is that the system is consistent and easy to understand and in fact looks and feels very similar to Classic.
Windows drivers all come from the hardware vendors, and you never hear people screaming at microsoft because their Acme Mouse doesn't work.
And, most importantly, with Windows you would have to dig up more money for things like developer's tools, servers, etc.
OS X bridges a gap between the Unix and Mac worlds: Mac users now have access to a vast array of specialist software, esp. in the areas of Internet and programming. Unix gurus now have access to mainstream creative software such as Print, Design, Audio/Music & Video production, and so on. There is no software worth having that can't be found on OS X, it only falls behind in games, and then not by much.
Yes, it may take some time to mature. Yes, you might have to wait a bit for legacy drivers. If you're not ready for X, just sit it out and stop whinging.
 

jimr

McInstigator
Frankly, I get so much enjoyment from using my Macs for work, I have <b>no time for games.</b>
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
Time for me to save up some dought and get a cinematic display ;)...you;re all invited to my movie matinees :p hehehe
 

Makosuke

Guy Who Loves X
First of all, I third that symphonix put it succinctly and beautifully. I've got my eye candy, most of the apps I know and love now "just work", and yet there's Apache, the terminal, and the wild world of unix just sitting there, eminating power.

Second, I'm new around here, but I've been a Mac user since the earliest days, and after finally installing 10.1 (I waited out all the betas), I had to shout out somewhere, and this thread looked as appropriate as any:

X rocks.

Yeah, there are still a few quirks, but now it works, it works almost exactly like I want it to, and it works FAST. This is what I've been waiting for since I installed the public beta, and I'm happy. I understand other people still having complaints, and I do have a DP533 to throw at it, but at least I'm a satisfied customer.

(Funny side note: After first installing it, and fiddling around a bit, something felt wrong--the same kind of wrong you get when you sit down as somebody else's computer and due to preferences et. al. it just doesn't feel right. After maybe half an hour, I figured out why: Everything was happening so fast that, after adjusting to and getting comfortable with the slight-to-severe lags in 10.0, it seemed almost alien. This, I can deal with.)
 

jove

Member
Makosuke -

I found myself still avoiding those old bottleneck areas. I have to keep reminding myself not adjust my workflow according to expected speeds.

One bottleneck still hits me quite a bit. If you don't move over the Recent Items fast enough, the system has to think to populate its sub-menu. That is a small but aggravating delay when one is trying to logout :)
 

kilowatt

mach-o mach-o man
Originally posted by symphonicx
I switched to Mac with the release of the iceBook this year, and am amazed at the number of complaints I've seen about, especially in light of the technology on the intel platforms.
Linux only got "finished" USB support in March this year. I have yet to see a WM on any Unix OS fit to lick Aqua's boots in terms of performance and efficiency. It's theming abilities are no match for Enlightenment, Afterstep or KDE, but the upside is that the system is consistent and easy to understand and in fact looks and feels very similar to Classic.
Windows drivers all come from the hardware vendors, and you never hear people screaming at microsoft because their Acme Mouse doesn't work.
And, most importantly, with Windows you would have to dig up more money for things like developer's tools, servers, etc.
OS X bridges a gap between the Unix and Mac worlds: Mac users now have access to a vast array of specialist software, esp. in the areas of Internet and programming. Unix gurus now have access to mainstream creative software such as Print, Design, Audio/Music & Video production, and so on. There is no software worth having that can't be found on OS X, it only falls behind in games, and then not by much.
Yes, it may take some time to mature. Yes, you might have to wait a bit for legacy drivers. If you're not ready for X, just sit it out and stop whinging.
Well said. Very well said. This is the reason I switched from YellowDogLinux to Mac OS X.

Origionally, I was very fustrated with the Mac OS <X (8.x and 9.x). I couldn't do anything. I had windows and documents all over the screen. I couldn't edit preferences without using control panels. I never knew quite what was happening on it. So I switched to YellowDogLinux (Which is a linux kernel - basically RedHat compiled for PPC).

But it didn't float my boat. I couldn't get anything firewire or USB to work (I understand much of this has been fixed up, but its still a pain in the butt). My SCSI scanner would require a kernel re-compile, you can't mount hfs+ in linux at the moment, there isn't a nice easy way to view QuickTime files, there just isn't a lot of the things I was used to.

Mac OS X comes out, and boy oh boy! I haven't even touched my SPARC 10, which I used to use as much as I used my Macintosh. I get all the things I liked about linux (except accelerated xf86 - that I don't like at the moment...), without the hassle.

Once again, THANK YOU APPLE!!!

BTW, AdmiralAK, my scsi iomega zip drive works on the beige g3... do you see anything in your console to indicate that the os even detects its presents (or the apple sys profiler)?
 

firewall

Registered
SCSI has been out of apple roadmap for a few years already.

I personally got rid of all my SCSI stuff on ebay 2 years ago and went usb and firewire in anticipation of being obsolete.

Apple is building a new OS from the ground up.

It may be painful on your wallet but unfortunatly computer gear has never been a long term investment if you wish to use the latest advancements in technologies.

How's win2000 running on a pentium celeron 400 mhz... an awful lot slower than on my g4 400mhz. thumbs up for apple

My dvd from apple works, my sony firewire CDR works

Of course i have a tv tuner,webcam and compact flash card reader not working yet, but when i bought them i knew that eventually they will be obsolete too.


Plus, we are at 10.1 , very early in the process. I have been around since a mac plus, Apple had a similar transition with power PC a few years back.

It takes 2 years , no less so after 6 months i am personally very impress with the progress so far



:)
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
I contacted orangemicro to see if they have drivers.
I think that the nice thing about unix and BSD is that there are a lot of hobbyists out there and there will be someone that makes a driver for such devices.

No doubt about it, my next upgrade will have not SCSI on it, or it will have SCSI as an adapter of some sort. SCSI is nice but getting old.

Anyway, dont wanna change my computer yet. In 2 years, maybe 3, that is the plan ;)


Admiral
 

omegaroot

Apprentice Codemonkey
SCSI is getting old?!! :eek:
I dont know what to say Admiral...

Firewire/USB/ATA are kiddies toys compared to SCSI and Fibre Channel!
Yes, USB is far better for mice/keyborads/gamepads then ADB anyday cause the plug and play without a restart. Firewire is sweet for DV. And ATA is suited for laptops, i guess... :)

I think one of the key things Apple keeps falling short on with their servers is the belief that SCSI is optional. It is NOT optional when real performance is not only demanded but required, lets not forget RAIDS. These things are common stock for performance and Apple seemed to turned their head to. I think they are finally getting the hint, if you look in Disk Utility you will notice a tab for RAID...

My UltraATA does about ~50-60 megs./sec
My UltraSCSI does ~130-140 megs./sec

the defense rests :D
 

BBenve

Apple seeder
Once again i wanna thank Apple... i am sorry for those who can't feel the same way .. but my icebook since X.1 has been installed thanked me ... performance are not perfect.. but stability is 4 bounces for IE??? well i can afford that.. especially cause the second boot takes only 2.. but the point is not bounces.... everything i plugged till now.. worked....and Aqua.... awww i love aqua... that 's the best thing ever... man i love aqua........did i say that i love aqua?
Well i do Aqua is awesome and works really well...... few bugs here and there... but hey ... no OS is perfect.... but OS X is getting there.... and we saw a huge step forward with 10.1 bigger than i thought .... well done Apple well done!

Andy
 

kilowatt

mach-o mach-o man
omegaroot, I agree, SCSI is not at all old or obsolete. Ever seen a sun computer w/out scsi? or an sgi? (well, maybe, but not the good ones).

Besides, can't you only use one ide device at a time when you have two drives on a chain (it may not appear so, but just try to copy one cd to the other with both on the same chain, then use different chains - separate chains yields much faster copy). Besides, ya get +7 drives on some scsi systems....

I remember being incredibly pissed when I got my beige and it didn't have a scsi hard drive, I mean, I couldn't even imagine a mac w/out scsi!

When I attempted to get a job at Microcenter, they had this test everyone had to take. It was stupid stuff, like how fast is 10baseT ethernet.

One of the questions was :
Which of the following is on all Apple Macintosh's:
a) adb
b) firewire
c) scsi
d) usb

Sadly, that question is outdated. I told the lady, and she said "The test was created in 98' so just remember that". (The answer was scsi, although I'm not sure that the first iMac's had scsi...)

Long live scsi!
 

soellman

nice face!
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
I got OS X in the hopes that DVD, CD-R and other issues would be worked out by the next update, update 10.1, which is mind you what apple promised. Apple promised CD-R and DVD with 10.1, but it did not do so with disclaimers and conditions. I got the update, I unstalled it and does my DVD play DVD discs ? Noooooo.... does my CD-R work ? nooooo cause its SCSI.

Dont get me wrong, I like the speed increase I get with the update but what about apple's broken promises ? My mac IS NOT an old mac! It's what I would consider a normal mac. Not everyone has the dought to go out and buy a new mac every year!
Admiral
Calm down :)

Something that everyone needs to understand that 10.x is totally new (to the mac platform)! There are more things new about 10 than there were in 7-9 combined. That being said, bringing an operating system of this magnitude up to feature parity with the incumbant os takes time, and so you'll get your dvd playing, your scsi cd burning, and all your hooha and whatnot with 10.1.x or 10.2..

None of these things are important to the latest apple gear, so it's not top priority. But I'd be surprised if there are things you can do in 9 that you can't do in 10 by the time 11 comes around. Give it some time.

This is almost exactly analagous to someone buying a powermac 6100 and getting pissed that their OS wasn't ppc native! After a while the OS was ppc native, but by that time the 6100 was an older machine.. Face it, when it comes to upgrading computers there is never a good time!

But of course, I have a pretty new machine (dp450) and so everything works for me :)

cheers,
-o
 

suthep

Registered
yes, well, i thought i was happy - my b+w G3 ran 10.0.4 beautifully and the SCSI card worked fine too, BUT i couldn't get my printer working and nobody could help but still the new OS was just amazing

and then the power unit shorted out and apple asia quoted me US$150 for a trade-in replacement when EXACTLY the same units for PCs only cost US$25

so i never got 10.1 and if i am supposed to pay a 600% surcharge on a little power unit after using Macs exclusively for 10 years, then i will consider throwing the whole lot down the toilet. my 'backup' G3 powerbook of course won't even run OS X...... and now someone says 10.2 won't run on G3s at all ........

it is such an amazing OS but i am getting tired of the silly premiums one has to pay for the pleasure of keeping apple alive - i have a family to support so it took me five years to save for my G3 and three months later the G4 came out and the G3 became non-upgradeable.......

anybody know steve jobs' email address?
 

suthep

Registered
yes, well, i thought i was happy - my b+w G3 ran 10.0.4 beautifully and the SCSI card worked fine too, BUT i couldn't get my printer working and nobody could help but still the new OS was just amazing

and then the power unit shorted out and apple asia quoted me US$150 for a trade-in replacement when EXACTLY the same units for PCs only cost US$25

so i never got 10.1 and if i am supposed to pay a 600% surcharge on a little power unit after using Macs exclusively for 10 years, then i will consider throwing the whole lot down the toilet. my 'backup' G3 powerbook of course won't even run OS X...... and now someone says 10.2 won't run on G3s at all ........

it is such an amazing OS but i am getting tired of the silly premiums one has to pay for the pleasure of keeping apple alive - it took me five years to save for my G3 and three months later the G4 came out and the G3 became non-upgradeable.......

anybody know steve jobs' email address?
 
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