The Official War Room

well, the best way for non-americans to start protesting the war is to stop buying american products.

The problem with that is that (in Europe at least) there's so many American products on the market, many of which people are not even aware of their actual origin (or at least where the company that owns the producer is based). The first target is usually the visible ones and often enough that's where it stops. People still keep on buying what I consider the worst American exports: Commercial movies and music. And then there's all the drugs that US drug companies hold a patent/monopoly and that some people can not simply stop using (or are so hooked on that they don't want to stop using them) etc., etc.

I do think economic sanctions is an strong tool but at the end it's the people that suffer (see Iraq, Cuba etc.) and not necessarily the government. I don't want to see more Americans being laid off, I just want to see the government gone.
 
Originally posted by doemel
I don't think blocking a street qualifies as ruckus. You've obviously never seen a real riot. At the end of the war will probably do more damage to the American economy than a bunch of protesters keeping other people from going about their own business. Bet your government is not going to admit that.
Click to expand...

It qualifies if its a busy street. And in this case a ruckus != riot. We've seem plenty of real riots. Of course the irony of war protestors causing riots would be quite interesting. Do you expect ANY govt to come out and say "we screwed up and now the country is much worse off, our bad, can you forigive us, and oh yes, vote for us again next year?" :rolleyes:
 
So, now the case is full!

You Americans "always" compares us Europeans with the "nazis" of the second world war. Well, if you'r interestet, i does not know one Nazi today! not even a Neo-Nazi (in contraire, in your free country Neo-Nazis has their own TV-Station, their own battlefields, wehre they can fight for their right to have their meaning)

No no no!!! Europeans have "learned" about the ways and consequences of the second world war and the horror that makes it possible, that somone like hitler was getting to the absolute power.

But you americans (sorry for the overall style, i know, there are ever more and less intelligent individums) Still today... it seems, that you have nothing learned!

How was Hitler able, to come to his Power?

Right: he dumbefound his citicens and gave them what they wantet to see! With Propaganda over TV, Radio and other Medias.

Now, have a look to the present!

Who (really) Who, is today capting press informations and a global balanced news, to hold the illusion of a "clean war"?

Cheiny, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeldt, Bush, Fox News, CNN, ABC, MSNBC and your Government!


The best way, to help upcoming a Dictator like Hitler, is to believe everything your Gov. and your Medias are telling you!


Look, Al-Jazeera was hacked. Have you understand just a quarter of what the hell there goes on? ->

Al-Jazeera is NOT iraqi-TV. Saddam Hussein has nothing to do with Bin Ladin and the 9.11. Al-Jazeera is a free, CNN-like Broadcast Network in the whole arabic world!

There are dozens of pages/sites, that are found by seek-engines, that guess to be "al-jazeera" Since the war begun, no one of them is the "REAL" al-jazeera. A big lie, that your Medias and Gov. try to dumbefound you! Do you (Americans) never have seen the "REAL" Movies, Pictures an News from Al-Jazeera.net! What you have seen, are highly manipulated and censored Views, how American-Gov. has like to be that Al-Jazeera should be!

This Hacker-Attaks are not been just "private persons". No way! There are not just the "root-servers" (5 of 8 in american hands) that recurved the real/original links. Not even the english.aljazeera.net is the real Al-Jazeera. There behind stands the CIA, Veri-Sign, Microsoft and your Army!

(Not just the domain-names are captured, also their IP's, and that i guess, goes far deeper, than a usual hacker can do this! That goes up to the military-root servers... tell what you want!)


Has it no sense? Are the americans believe what they believe, they are to dumbefound of her Gov and too far into their illusion-construct (also from their Gov.) how the world "is" (it's not)?
Every day I found/see more lies, published by your "heroes"! that goes from:
* the "white powder" (which is showed as biological weapons) no, these are anti-biological weapons pouder!
* there are only less collateral dammages (have you seen this 4500 wounded civillians, which are not told from? (wiht one eye shot out, legs off, holes in bodys... etc., nor the 1070 death civilians? there are other 30.000 soldiers died, but there I agree, they don't count!)
* The dozens of "May-Be" Aljazeera websites that talks sure the language of CNN and Fox, but SURE not from Al-Jazeera.
* That Iraq should send out Al-Jazeera from Bagdad! (who was sending who out of bagdad?)

American Gov.'s "OSA" Departement for Desinformation has done perfect work. Applause

Never again I will trust an american Media or News-Channel!
 
nope! i never did completely trust the american (USA) media. a lot of "show-off" attitude can be seen in there. alas! they control america.
 
Al-Jazeera is probably the most important News source in the world today. Not for what it broadcasts but because it is the first independent news company in the middle east. What a lot of Americans don't realize is that Al-Jazeera is equally hated by a lot of middel east governments. Mainly because it is providing a source of news other than the government's for the first time ever.

The other aspect of this war that most Americans aren't getting is that this war is being broadcast into the homes of tens of millions of people who didn't "see" the last war. As we learned in Vietnam, TV has a powerful effect and the outcome can only be a long-lasting hatred/resentment of US domination.

I agree with Tazmandevil in that we Americans have been sucked into believing that this war is necessary due to the immense propaganda machine in Washington. Although it seems that daily we are told that they have found evidence of WMD, in the final analysis there is no proof. Maybe there will be, but some of the most "promising" sites have turned up nothing so far.

The real war, IMO, is yet to begin, the war between the US and the rest of the world.
 
Please don't feel offended. I found the actual event so much... You know, this V-effect, in Bertold Brecht (Verschfremdungeffekt I think that's it in German), the laugh you get when something occurs and that it's so horrible you would do anything for it not to happen to you... Something like this.

Friendly fire: the irony of it all.
 
You know, this V-effect, in Bertold Brecht (Verschfremdungeffekt I think that's it in German)...

It's "Verfremdungseffekt", but you're close enough for a non-German - it's a terrible language to learn, I'm glad I'm native German speaking :D But then again, I had so much trouble learning French at school: All the rules and all the exceptions to the rules... I hated French at school but love it now. I have to say though that I went out with a sweet Québecoise for 2.5 years ;) It's French, but not as "stiff" (or as some people say "stuck up") as the French you can find in some parts of France (no offense, toast!). But then again, it's just a language and the way it's spoken doesn't necessarily reflect the attitude of the people. One thing I really love about Québec is that they make an important difference in an English dominated North America.

I'm getting way off topic here, sorry for that!
 
We have some ERASMUS students from Québec here at my institute, complete different approach of political science - refreshing people, they make the discipline even more enjoyable :)

*off-topic too ;)*
 
So what's about these US troops friendly-fireing reporters in a hotel? And accidentaly killing an Al Djazeera journalist? (The troops got fire from the lobby or first floor and then fired at the 15th floor, at a hotel they _knew_ there were journalists in.)

Okay, maybe it was just a mistake. But I also have to ask myself what those reporters are thinking...

And the worst thing I've seen yet: Watch the end of a CNN 'show' about the war. You'll see, at the very end: "The War In Iraq, © 2003 by CNN"

Huh?!
 
[sarcasm]
It wasn't a mistake: they did looked forward to bombing this hotel. But_they had an official reason: this hotel was used as a refuge by ... Iraqis !

Startling !
Amazing !
Be confused !
Iraqis hiding in their own buildings ! What a surprise ! Wow ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hence, let's do something.
Invade it ? Throw some tear gas in the basements ? Ask journalists to evacuate and then inspect it ?

No. Let's throw a f*cking shell on it. Simpler, duh !

But where ?

On its façade ! Obviously ! It is obvious Iraqis hide on balconies, isn't it, everyone in the US Army knows that !

Hm... those Iraqis are strange... they've got no WMD... no guns... but mics and cams. Plus, they've got this strange Qatari accent...
[/sarcasm]

Limits of bathos and pathos have been reached in one single action. The 'Kurd error' was already of some prestige, but this hotel shelling is a world record.
 
Originally posted by toast
[sarcasm]
It wasn't a mistake: they did looked forward to bombing this hotel. But_they had an official reason: this hotel was used as a refuge by ... Iraqis !

Startling !
Amazing !
Be confused !
Iraqis hiding in their own buildings ! What a surprise ! Wow ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hence, let's do something.
Invade it ? Throw some tear gas in the basements ? Ask journalists to evacuate and then inspect it ?

No. Let's throw a f*cking shell on it. Simpler, duh !

But where ?

On its façade ! Obviously ! It is obvious Iraqis hide on balconies, isn't it, everyone in the US Army knows that !

Hm... those Iraqis are strange... they've got no WMD... no guns... but mics and cams. Plus, they've got this strange Qatari accent...
[/sarcasm]

Limits of bathos and pathos have been reached in one single action. The 'Kurd error' was already of some prestige, but this hotel shelling is a world record.
Click to expand...

Well the current official word is that the tank and troops were fired upon by some Iraqi's "seeking refuge" in the building. You present it as a case of some Iraqi's simply hiding in the building and the tank taking a shot. Nice to ignore the facts (as we currently know it) to misinform and try to make a "point".

This does bring up an interesting issue in regards to the press and coverage of the war. It seems that in many ways the press seem to think of this whole thing as a big sporting event. Be in the middle and call the plays. Well this is a war. Weapons are fired, people are killed. If you are in the middle of it, then you put yourself in the line of fire. If one side decides to try to use you as a human shield, then there is a good chance you'll get hurt. This war has been fairly unprecedented in the style of coverage. Embedded journalist and media present in the middle of a war zone has allowed for a very different look at things. However, the press is learning that there is a price to be paid for such an intimate look at a war and learning the hard way that simply being a journalist doesn't afford you any special treatment when the bulletts start to fly.
 
It's been a while since I've chimed in on the war around here. Mostly because I simply don't have the drive to "go at it."

But I would like to say a few things...

Firstly, from what I have seen on TV, the war has truly been a liberation. The majority of Iraqi people have welcomed coalition forces with open arms (human appendages, not guns.) It has been very heart-warming to see the Iraqi people so happy!

Secondly, I have been growing more and more unforgiving and antagonistic of those who see no good coming out of the war, and those who so vehemently accuse President Bush of crimes a normal person would attribute to Saddam himself. George W. Bush does not equal Saddam Insane.

Have a great day, Iraq! Let freedom ring.
 
I dont know but I get tired of all that war stuff. Every day, every channel - war war war - nbc, cnn, abc, fox, ... just too much!

and we dont see the real war pictures anyways. just the pics that they can take b4 they get shot.
 
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