The UK and America

Qion,

Just look around you. What is in your news, what happens to dissenters, how does your Supreme Court allow Bush to casually dismiss long standing constitutional standards and international treaty agreements? How many absurd ideas can the average American cling to without anyone noticing?

Yes there are plenty of intelligent thoughtful Americans who I admire immensely. I just wish the rest of the Americans, who bother to vote, did also. Unfortunately it has been a while since we have seen Americans who genuinely espouse the cause of liberty and justice for all, without using it as a cover for personal gain at the expense of those less fortunate than themselves.

Flag waving and cartoon caricatures of foreigners are dragging America into its current morass. It has taken nearly 2 whole terms and a trillion dollars down the drain and a heck of a lot of lives for the Public to wake up to what seemed bleeding obvious to the world 7 years ago.

Principally what is obvious to the world is that the States does not see itself as part of the same globe.

Weirdly I have noticed 2 contrary notions in many Americans I have talked to: that the world really loves America (Iraqis will welcome us with open arms) and that the world really hates America (they are shooting at us!). The part they don't get is the discussions they think they are having with everyone else is just conversations with themselves, where they ignore everything everyone else says.
 
rubaiyat said:
Qion,

Just look around you. What is in your news, what happens to dissenters, how does your Supreme Court allow Bush to casually dismiss long standing constitutional standards and international treaty agreements? How many absurd ideas can the average American cling to without anyone noticing?

Yes there are plenty of intelligent thoughtful Americans who I admire immensely. I just wish the rest of the Americans, who bother to vote, did also. Unfortunately it has been a while since we have seen Americans who genuinely espouse the cause of liberty and justice for all, without using it as a cover for personal gain at the expense of those less fortunate than themselves.

Flag waving and cartoon caricatures of foreigners are dragging America into its current morass. It has taken nearly 2 whole terms and a trillion dollars down the drain and a heck of a lot of lives for the Public to wake up to what seemed bleeding obvious to the world 7 years ago.

Principally what is obvious to the world is that the States does not see itself as part of the same globe.

Weirdly I have noticed 2 contrary notions in many Americans I have talked to: that the world really loves America (Iraqis will welcome us with open arms) and that the world really hates America (they are shooting at us!). The part they don't get is the discussions they think they are having with everyone else is just conversations with themselves, where they ignore everything everyone else says.
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Interestingly enough, I've planned my move out of America for a couple years now. I've been researching industrial arts opportunities abroad so that I might escape all the hells of the American system to a saner state.

I agree with you, I honestly do. I, however, do not wish ill on the entire face of the American people, and I may go a bit far to protect myself and people like myself from what Bush and the lower 50% have done.
 
There was a debate along very similar lines in the NY Times forum recently. Interestingly many Americans who lived abroad chimed in and it seemed the longer the exposure to the outside world the wider the eyes were opened.

I hope you do make it O.S.

Sadly not enough Americans do, due to your extremely short annual vacations.
 
rubaiyat said:
....Bush is not exactly stupid, but I have heard his IQ has been assessed at about 127 which puts him pretty low down by my standards...
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Hey that's my IQ score!

I don't think Bush is stupid. I think he's canny and smart, with a very dry sense of humour. It's his policies (and that of his cronies) that I despair over, not him as an individual.

It's like Maggie Thatcher. Her polices sucked big time, but you had to admire her for her fortitude. In fact in his early days, Churchill had some pretty repulsive attitudes to the British working class and British colonial subjects.

Newt Ginrich was once asked who was a better president; Reagan or Carter. Reagan he replied. He wasn't as wholesome as Carter, but Reagan knew what he didn't know. Carter simply didn't know what he didn't know. And this is a very serious flaw in a leader.

I suspect Dubya is more like Reagan. He knows what he is doing, unfortunately to most people's disdain.
 
Not being stupid is not enough. That just elevates Bush into the realm of mediocrity. He copes by simplifying the world and by governing for the few. The few gave him plenty of money to fuel his campaigns out of the money and opportunities he preferentially passed their way. He was a good investment for people who already had money but wanted more.

In the long term the fudging, lies, cheating and plain ridiculousness of his policies are peeled back to reveal the sad, small town Texan thinking it was all built upon. The only reason it ever escaped its pathetic origins was it matched the similar small thinking of many Americans and those who saw a chance to make a buck out of it.

I am really anxiously awaiting the results of the next election to see whether the American political system can repair itself, but it certainly shows severe flaws in the checks and balances. Those flaws are possible because of the laziness of Americans in both informing themselves and getting off their cellulite filled butts and voting.

The key flaw as I see it, and this is not just America, is prosperity corrupts and leads people to want amusement, not information from the media and the media is compelled to comply. It supplies gossip and amusing stories. Any hard stories are kept down into bite size glimpses of the bigger picture which are largely ignored by those who have simplified their world into family, shopping and idle entertainment.

God comes in only to justify the good life and give the illusion that it will continue forever. Mutter the right phrases and follow the right rituals and rules and you get to keep everything, even after death.

No matter how mean, vindictive and nasty you are in this life you played it by "the rules" so you get a ticket to paradise. No wonder Americans are in a monumental clash with the Muslim fundamentalists. They are 2 sides of the same coin.
 
Not just the EU. Bush keeps blathering on about Islam being a religion of peace.

Bollocks! Anyone who has read the Koran knows what a load of turn the other cheek wishful thinking that is.

But despite all that, invading Iraq has jeopardised the revival of Afghanistan as a civilised country and has stuffed the USA's credibility completely.
 
It seems we've all got our problems.

I second rubaiyat in that Islam is not a peaceful religion. I'm not fluent in Arabic, but I have read the Koran in its English translation. It's full to the brim with hatred and radical ideals, a true warring religion if there ever was one. It's very worrying to me as well that Islam is spreading so freely in Africa, a continent with problems more massive than any of the New World's.
 
<holy Jesus Mother of God. We have gone from the USA vs the UK and to all that it implies to Islam, the bible and the Chinese. Well, when you think of it, as things stand it's maybe the same thing.....in the long run. Plus "The World Corporation."
One thing is sure, if I may add my 2 pennies:
There is New York and the rest of the USA. Hey, we have enough problems with people from New Jersey, let alone the English (I didn't say the UK).
In fact there is California, NYC and all "those other people." Sounds silly. Right?
Bush & his gang have been a disaster. Period. Why? The forum doesn't have enough room.
I have lived in France for a number of years and never have I had a negative jibe against me with the exception of some clown who's daughter passed a very ugly time with a Christian nutcase family and some guy who got ripped off in New Orleans.
As for the UK. When I was on the Isle of Skye many, many years ago. I biked to a hostel, but the Warden wasn't in. Some English character with his group told me that the warden wasn't in ..."there is no room for you." I asked if he was in charge....and he said "yes, for the moment." The sun was setting and like most hostels in Scotland there was always a place on the floor. Not with this guy. Luckily, I went to the local Post Office that had a room. Two adorable old ladies not only made me a wonderful "tea" but offered me a bed for the night. They were Scottish of course.
In Knighten, Wales, when I stayed with an old friend of my grandfathers (this was during the Munich Olympics in 1972) Guys Rogers was always getting pissed off because the American Antheme was "too bloody long." Off course we had many whiskies to ease the pain.
So, in a word. if we bash the rednecks and the the like, okay. They deserve it. They are morons and dangerous sometimes. But most importantly we must bash all the A h$les, be it in South Africa (you are aware of what is going on there), China, Louisiana, Jersey City or Golders Green, etc..
Oh, another thing.... always read the very, very fine prints when you sign a contract with an Englishman. They are the best in contract law.
Cheers. This is a very good post.

Certain Texans are cool however. See below:

http://www.jimhightower.com/
 
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If you want to see America in other ways, do check out the jimhightower site. Rather amusing. By the way, I'm a big fan of the English as long as they stop coming to France. Enough is enough. The Dutch as well. My friends in the Drôme tell me this. Here we go....another forum.
PS. I don't know if things have changed but when hitchiking in Scotland/Wales/Ireland, I was never picked-up by an English tourist.I often got the famous two fingers as well. Belgians, Russians, locals, etc. yes. Even a regular bus going to Oban. Why? I never understood. When I think about it though many of them were driving Minis filled to hilt with bagage in those days. Just no room for jerks like me in their car, I guess. It must be noted that when I was on my own I would walk for miles talking to sheep often under the rain and....saying to myself..."what the hell am I doing here!!!". The UK was a paradise for an American student. Met some really nice gals as well. I won't even talk about the pubs and the great folk I met on the way. Often English. Trust me. Viva the UK.
 
Qion said:
It seems that with each passing week, I'm introduced to more despise and hatred from British people towards Americans. Whether it be on You Tube, the blogs I frequent, or simply on television, it seems that a fair number of people think America are a bunch of fat ignorant Christians with nothing better to do than eat cheese, watch American football, and generally wallow in their overblown patriotism and inflated egos from wars past.

I know that a fair number of people on this board hail from the UK, so please enlighten me. Our socioeconomic status here in America is frighteningly backwards, and a good number of hicks still believe in slavery, but we've places like New York and Silicon Valley where innovation and modernity is flourishing. Honestly, we're not all Christian, and over 50% of us disagree with Bush's foreign policy.

At any rate... please respond.
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Hey there!!

I Hail from the UK, and this is my very first post, and quite disturbingly, I have to agree; for some reason, there are a few Britons out there who are far too opinionated, and find pleasure in berating other cultures and nations - don't worry, we aren't all egotistical, chauvenistic dinosaurs that think you guys only brought obesity and slavery to the floor - you guys have so many things that other nations should be proud of it's untrue, and a debate like this makes me sad - I wish everyone could get along. The main thing I have noticed is how a lot of Britons were in favour of the war in Iraq, but decided it incredibly easy to berate the yanks (sorry if you don't like th term guys...) simply cos of a few mistakes with triggers.

I have nothing but respect and awe for my US cousins, and let's face it, anyone who has a problem with the USA, really isn't worth bothering with - they probably couldn't hold this arguement up anyhoo! It is a sad day when someone feels compelled to make their first post on a new site an apology for the way certain members of their 'kinfolk' behave.

Sorry guys, some of us are ok...honest.

by the way, hi to everyone, just got my first Mac to play with - G4 Sawtooth, and I plan on spening lots of time speaking to you guys (English OR Americanm or french or...yada yada yada)

Take Care,

Rob.
 
Rhisiart said:
Ever tried reading the old testament?
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Jesus seemed to have picked up much more of the philosophies from the East, disseminated through the remnants of Alexander the Great's conquests that stretched all the way to India.

Buddhism and Zoroastrianism particularly.

Buddha taught the sanctity and unity of life, expressed as "harm no others".

Zarathustra (Zororaster) not only acknowledged only one God, but also believed in; "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds."

Yep, it always made me wonder how Jesus continues to be thought of as on the same page as the ancient Hebrews. But then he didn't make it past his 33rd.

Neither did either Christianity or Judaism in the Middle East when Mohammed came along as "God's Enforcer" in the 7th century.
 
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