Trip is in denial? CSS vs HTML

Trip, I'd say do what you must and learn when you can...

As long as what you do works on most/all browsers.

XHTML 'n CSS is not urgent you learn NOW. I've been told XHTML still has some bugs they're working out... so I donno. I've started converting over a site to XHTML when I heard that so now I'm on the fence on this - right smack dab in the middle of working on that site. :p

Altho CSS would compliment whatever you're doing (altho not sure if go-live supports it directly).
 
Originally posted by Trip
Honestly I don't want to do this. Something inside me says I should. But I don't want to. I need to start making money NOW, and the only way I can see doing that is by putting stuff together through GoLive. Meh, why am I still talking when I can't even draw?!

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Yes, get a SHIT JOB with a REAL PAYCHECK that you can deposit into a REAL BANK ACCOUNT! Believe me, you'll hate your job in no time flat, but you'll really love having money to spend on stuff you need, or even stuff you want. And I don't mean apply to design firms and the like; you can still do this, but also apply to the grocery stores, the fast food joints, the department stores, the bookstores, everywhere and pray that they'll look at you and see something they like.
 
Originally posted by Trip
Honestly I don't want to do this. Something inside me says I should. (...) Thoughts?
Click to expand...

You gonna have to do it anyway, now or later. The earlier the better, that's my own point of view. The more you wait the more the technology gets distant from what you know of HTML, the more you wait and stay in your tables, the more you get obsolete and less competitive.

You are not going to attract customers with obsolete coding. Argument number 1 is : you cost bandwidth, we webstandardized people cost less. You cost heavy code editing, we standardized people cost less.

From www.simplebits.com :

I design and build with web standard and valid code to produce pages that will look great on modern browsers yet still functional and useable on older ones. Utilizing web standards leads to real results:

Decreased bandwidth and server space
Improved accessibility to all browsers and devices (including those with disabilities)
Increased separation of presentation layer code from content
Simplified updating of look and feel
Faster page loading
Lower costs
Click to expand...

"I need to make money now" is not a valid argument. Read this to understand why: http://www.happycog.com/lectures/dwws/

Note: you wouldn't be here if you were so short on time to learn things, Trip, don't you think so ? Come on, CSS basics are easy, and XHTML is plain sailing !

Another perfect rant is in my signature, it's called Semantics by Mark Pilgrim.
 
You're more likely to put off clients with bloated design than make a quick buck. So you should definitely try to streamline your coding and keep as up-to-date as possible.
 
Everything I'm coding from now own is XHTML 1 Trans or Strict and CSS whenever possible.

I use MX on my Mac, and MX2004 on the Wintel Laptop I am stuck with from work. MX2004 is much better at correctly displaying the CSS layout now. I handcode everything in code view, but a quick look in design view is a nice feature, as with being able to just change text on the fly by looking where I want to do it, instead of scrolling through the code, or just the FTP feature and file management built-in. That's why I use Dreamweaver. I may change to GoLiveCS, as I was really impressed with it at the Design Seminar, but the more I've used MX 2004 the more they seem just on par with each other, esp. since I handcode.

As far as better, it's a personal opinion. Pages I code in this method look the same, regardless if I use Dreamweaver, BBEdit, or a simple text editor. Another point, while the standards practice is a good idea, it's not a fix-all yet. The usability is still not at a level that is acceptable in the business world. Hopefully this will change, cause it's really close. But HTML4 is still here for awhile.


Trip, it's a simple thing, just takes some getting used to. Another good souce is ALA (A list apart) or the foremost authority, Eric Meyers. He has some really good books on CSS. www.meyerweb.com
 
Do you know of any good sites that have shapes for Photoshop? I use those more often than brushes.
 
I feel like crap after reading this.

I really want to shoot myself now. I know there is no hope for me now. I really want to go into the creative/design field in the future, but I know now I won't make it. Maybe photography is the thing for me. Maybe I'm just destined to die.

I really am not sure of what I was sure of a month ago. :(
 
Is ANYTHING possible using XHTML and CSS? In other words can I do whatever I could in HTML and then some?
 
Quit being down on yourself, Trip.

Remember, you need to think happy thoughts to fly. :)

(That's from Peter Pan, for anyone who doesn't get it. :p)
 
XHTML is, for all intents and purposes, HTML 4 moved into an XML compatible form. So anything you could do with HTML, you can do with XHTML. Same format and all.
 
I've got some big questions here. And I need some BIG help. If anybody has some time on their hands to mess around and help me out please contact me either through PM here or on AIM/iChat: TannerSite

Hey guys, guess what! After 5 pages of discussion and hundreds of links I'm actually looking into XHTML styling! We'll see how it goes from here, I guess. :)
 
haha we got to ya! it worked! maybe we should change the title to something like 'xhtml css discussion' now...
 
No, keep it what it is. I like it. ;)
Plus I still have some good points to argue! Just not tonight...too...tired.

Wow. It's only 8:30 and I'm already wasted. :confused:
 
I don't know about you guys, but I won't make any pages that I can't guarantee that most systems can display. I can remember having to redesign a page that displayed wrong on one client's brother's computer. Another time I remember having to sit in a room as one of my clients showed one of his clients our site on that client's system (Windows 98, IE 4.x) and worrying that the next click would lead to a page that didn't work (actually they all worked, but I hadn't check for that type of system exactly).

Being able to eat and pay rent and bills seems more important then being current. Most people are behind the curve technology wise, and they aren't going to pay for what they can't see and show to others.

Still, nice to see where we are going and what tools I'll be able to use when my clients finally get up to speed. By that point you guys 'll most likely be on to something else I'm sure ;) , telling us how out of date CSS and the like are.
 
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