US fingerprints 'allied' visitors

Giaguara

Giaguara

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3595221.stm and
http://www.repubblica.it/2003/j/sezioni/esteri/terrorismo/impronta/impronta.html:

A US requirement for visitors to be fingerprinted and photographed is being expanded to include citizens from America's closest allies.

The move will affect visitors from 27 countries* - including the UK, Japan and Australia - whose nationals had been able to visit the US without a visa.

The change in the "US-Visit" programme is due to take effect by 30 September.

[..]This means that citizens from the 27 countries will still be allowed to visit the US without a visa, although they will now have to be fingerprinted and photographed before they enter.

The UK authorities have said they will not be able to issue the new passports including "biometric data" before mid-2005.
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[* =Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. ]


What do YOU think?

The only place I have had my fingerprints so far taken is in Brazil. But there it was not discriminating: everyone must have the fingerprints taken for the national identity card - both Brazilians and all non-Brazilians.


But these?

I think all those 27 countries should as a response make the exact same requirements for the visitors from USA. So anyone from USA visiting ANY of those countries would need to be photographed and fingerprinted .. again. So if you'd visit e.g. UK, Ireland, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, France, Spain and UK and Ireland again on your Europe trip, you'd be fingerprinted and photographed nine times. (or any number crossing borders in Europe, only because of the passport you have). :rolleyes:


I love the French attitude .. France tries to impose the same visa / working licence etc requirements for the other countries than they do for the French. So if a French person can work easily in a country A, a person from country A can work easily in France. If a French person needs a lot of paperwork and bureaucratic marathon to get a visa or working licence in a country B, a person from country B will have the same kind of treatment in France - a lot of paperwork .. that can be a lot of paperwork.

Now what if all these countries would add the actual same policies toward USA (and not only .. also to other countries) ?? ::ha::
 
Shouldn't every country do that then, to everybody?

What if suddenly these 27 countries would start fingerprinting US citizens?? They should maybe do it, for their own safety (i.e. I think there are about as many 'unsafe' persons coming from lets say from Sweden to US than from US to Sweden or any other of those countries)

Of the countries the ones I've seen doing fingerprinting on the least discriminating way were Brazil (above) and Portugal - they as well fingerprint everyone, Portuguese or non-portuguese.
 
I have the same opinion as Scott. Personal freedom / convenience arguments aside, the U.S. has been infiltrated very easily before, and this move is not a surprise to me.
 
I say it's within any countries right to apply whatever means they think is necessary to protect itself.So just be sure to research the requirements of said country before you travel.
 
I have 3 passports. US, Bermuda, British/EU When I go to Europe I use British, when I come back I use the US one. How does this affect me?
 
speedfreak said:
I have 3 passports. US, Bermuda, British/EU When I go to Europe I use British, when I come back I use the US one. How does this affect me?
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Can you give me the number of that guy who made you two of those three passports? I need one for Croatia.. :D :) ;)
Seriously, I feel somehow humiliated by this. They have to brand me like a cow.. :( No thanks!
 
It's an interim step until biometric passports come about. I don't see anyone complaining about biometric passports.
If you have nothing to hide, what's wrong with a fingerprint? Citizens of those countries still don't require visas. Why not complain about other countries with strict laws concerning entry?
 
The fact that I have nothing to hide does not mean that I give license to anybody to check on me. That's called privacy. I have nothing to hide, but that does not mean my life is completely public.
 
I'm willing to give up some personal freedoms if that means a safer world. And a finger print is not an unreasonable thing.
 
Last time I was arrested it took about 24 hours to get an answer to my prints. ;) So what good does it do to print someone at the gate? Do they actually get a readout on them before the person is let in? I haven't traveled since January, but that sounds like a nightmare of delays at immigration.

MDLarson, just how does a fingerprint lead to a safer world? Back in the mid 90's there was this push to fingerprint children so that they could be "protected." From what and how exactly? Seems fingerprints are used to catch bad-guys after the fact, not before it.

It may do some good before they get to the gate of the airport - i.e. if it is part of the process when applying for a visa or a ticket/boarding pass so you can have the print run through whatever international database there may be, or to make sure that the person coming in actually is the one who got the visa/ticket/boarding pass. Just getting someone's fingerprint and then letting them go through seems obnoxious to me.
 
I am forced to agree with the position that this finger printing won't stop any determined terrorist. Our technology is not up to the instant speed people think it is. This announcement is purely political in nature and does nothing to protect us. Do they really believe terrorists fingerprints are on file? I don't think so.
 
The fact that I have nothing to hide does not mean that I give license to anybody to check on me. That's called privacy. I have nothing to hide, but that does not mean my life is completely public.
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Have you ever applied for a visa for another country? You're asked plenty of personal information, and where you're staying, what you're doing and even your profession.
For some countries, I've had to leave a visa with the embassy for a few days until it came back. I didn't have to but I wouldn't have been able to enter the country without it. Give and take.
Two weeks ago, I had to change travel plans as I was told my S/O might not be allowed to enter Japan even though she's a professional actuary and earns a good living. We had to wait a day and go to Australia instead, but only after applying for travel visas.
Fingerprints will be an inconvenience, but many parts of travelling is a pain these days. And expect more security, or the semblance of it, on trains as well.
And as far as France goes, as Gia said, wait and see what happens after a bomb goes off on the Metro and kills a few hundred.
Don't forget it's a political year (across many places in the world) and comments/themes are going to be amped up, especially security issues, realized or not.
 
Fingerprints = safety and less terrorism?

So Brazil and Portugal must be totally terrorismless and safe countries, as their fingerprinting includes the people of their own country and the foreigners. :rolleyes:


Can anyone come with a good reason why Brunei is in the visaless list?
 
Brunei joined ASEAN on January 7, 1984--one week after resuming full independence--and gives its ASEAN membership the highest priority in its foreign relations. Brunei joined the United Nations in September 1984. It also is a member of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum. Brunei hosts the APEC Economic Leaders' Meeting in November 2000.

U.S.-BRUNEI RELATIONS
Relations between the United States and Brunei date from the last century. On April 6, 1845, the U.S.S. Constitution visited Brunei. The two countries concluded a Treaty of Peace, Friendship, Commerce and Navigation in 1850, which remains in force today. The United States maintained a consulate in Brunei from 1865 to 1867.

The U.S. welcomed Brunei Darussalam's full independence from the United Kingdom on January 1, 1984, and opened an embassy in Bandar Seri Begawan on that date. Brunei opened its embassy in Washington in March 1984. Brunei's armed forces engage in joint exercises, training programs, and other military cooperation with the U.S. An MOU on defense cooperation was signed on November 29, 1994. :)

Sounds very similar to Singapore-US before the FTA was signed.
 
Brunei's oil production peaked in 1979 at more than 240,000 barrels per day. Since then it has been deliberately cut back to extend the life of oil reserves and improve recovery rates. Petroleum production is currently averaging 200,000 barrels per day. Japan has traditionally been the main customer for Brunei's oil exports and in 1999 took in about 50.3% of Brunei's export production, followed by the United States (13.9%), Korea (13.5%), and Thailand (13.3%). Other major customers include Taiwan and the countries of ASEAN.

Oil = another good reason. :p
 
Actually the U.S. could learn a thing or two from the E.U.They've had alot more experience with "terrorists",going back to the Munich massacre,Red Brigades & all that other riff raff!But I have to agree with Randman this is a year of politics so put on your boots people it's going to get deep ::ha::
 
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