Websites running away from Qucktime?

fryke said:
Erhm, I hope this thread won't just become a discussion of whether or not QT on Windows is any good...

The discussion supposedly is about websites running away from Quicktime. Were I a content producer or distributor, I would certainly be extremely concerned about users' uptake of the player app. I think the discussion (yes, mostly Windows-based, but, well, that's where the vast, vast majority of players are) is very appropriate.

But fact is: iTunes _depends_ on Quicktime, therefore QT must be installed on Windows - or iTunes just doesn't run.

Funny, it ran just fine while I was testing this and had Quicktime completely uninstalled. However, I see that you're right, their website now claims that QT is required.
 
I'm more than OK with QuickTime, but I hate QT Player (without it being pro). Justifiably, too - it's horrible - particularly on a PC.

And it's looked like that for years!

The only PC users I know who leave QT Player on their systems are those who know where to obtain QT Pro keys (if you understand my drift). So Apple isn't gaining anything from them.

Apple - get rid of the splash nag. Get QT out of the system tray (and out of memory). Give QT Basic full-screen playability. Rework the QT icons so they actually utilise the advantages of the OS (alpha blending on icons for instance - though I haven't seen QT7 for Windows).

The splash nag and the full-screen playability is true on the OS X platform too. It's a joke. People don't trust QT Player, so they don't like QT. So they don't use QT sites.

I still think all online content should be in MPEG form these days, and Microsoft really ought to open the WMV3 codec.
 
Ripcord said:
Funny, it ran just fine while I was testing this and had Quicktime completely uninstalled. However, I see that you're right, their website now claims that QT is required.

Ah, I've tried that. You can't use the iTunes Music Store.

I used to use WMP because it was already installed on the system and seemed pretty good. It was only when I got an iPod and was forced to use iTunes and Quicktime that I realised how boated and buggy it was. The Real lawsuit should have sorted out that problem except Microsoft were very crafty in pricing their non-WMP edition. They made it the same price as the normal edition so that people wouldn't buy it because they'd get less value for money.
 
texanpenguin said: "People don't trust QT Player, so they don't like QT. So they don't use QT sites."

You have to trust me in that I see that differently. The people I know mistrust Microsoft. And even on their PCs (Yes, I'm constantly trying to tell them they can't mistrust MS and use Windows at the same time...), they actually like QuickTime more - just because of that. They don't use the player much, but they choose QT on websites where there is an option to choose. They've heard of security issues with WMP and they feel the movie quality is better in QT.
 
I'm like that too. But you have to realise that the majority of people certainly do NOT mistrust MS. QuickTime doesn't behave in an expectable way, so it frustrates most users.
 
The impression I get from poor Windows users is that Apple software on PCs suck eggs. I used Quicktime on a PC once and it wasn't as nicely done as it is on a Mac. My business partner uses a PC and cannot stand it... or Quicktime :D

Quicktime is great on a Mac, Windows Media Player is crap on a Mac
Quicktime is crap on a PC, Windows Media Player (I'm told) is great on a PC
 
Ripcord hit the nail on the head. I primarily use Windows (I have a B&W G3 but it doesnt get used often anymore)... and I cant stand quicktime anymore. I have always found quicktime to feel slow to launch and at least on windows it was always a bit buggy. I hate the nagging and to be honest, I find quicktime to be quite poor. I remember back when I was running an XP 2100 amd system and was trying to watch a 640x480 clip in quicktime at near full screen resolutions and I was getting huge framerate drops and 100% cpu usage. I downloaded a WMV version of the same file and CPU usage was no more than say 50% to 60% and no frame drops.

In fact, I hate quicktime so much, that its only second to me hating Realplayer which I refuse to install at all. If I want to watch something that is realplayer format... I just dont :) Ya I'd rather just skip what ever it is. I was going to do the same for Quicktime until I found this:

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm

Its free, it doesnt nag me and uses mediaplayer classic as its player.

Also how come MOV files dont seem to stream as nice. I mean lets say someone happens to post a MOV file on their website. You click on it and the browser pretty much sits there until download is done and then it plays. WMV files play almost instantly.
 
fjdouse said:
Quicktime is great on a Mac, Windows Media Player is crap on a Mac
Quicktime is crap on a PC, Windows Media Player (I'm told) is great on a PC

Actually, I thought WMP was better on a Mac. It crashes less, it doesn't freeze or hang and because they like to cripple their Mac programs, it's a lot less bloated.

I think all of their software's better on a Mac. They crippled MSN Messenger, but in some ways that's good because they seemed to run out of ideas for version 7 and just added load of things that they could make money from. For example, you can search using MSN search for a text string typed into the chat window by clicking a "Search" button underneath the "Send" button. This then displays sponsored results in the chat window. Utterly pointless, particularly as your partner can't see the results anyway, thus making it ill-suited as an IM feature.

Oh, btw, iTunes doesn't work if you install Quicktime Alternative.
 
I'm strictly a Winamp guy :) itunes is nice but it feels kinda heavy. I'm probably too picky. I want everything blindingly fast and dont like waiting for anything to happen. I'd upgrade to a faster box but I'm broke after going with this dual xeon 3Ghz setup with the 15k scsi drives and 2 gig ram and X800XT :) It was damn expensive. Well not unreasonably so. Probably the price of an entry level dual G5 2.0. I chose the biggest heaviest server case I could find so it will never ever get stolen. LOL
 
right. you could have also spent the money you spent on that case on this new invention, insurance.
 
Well pengu, unless I could insure something the price of a dual G5 2.0 for say 2-3 years for $100 (price difference in the case) then I'm pretty sure I've made the right choice ;) Oh not to mention the incredible cooling its got. I was pretty amazed. Super hot running 3Ghz xeons running at 100% load and getting no hotter than 55C is very good especially considering that the coolers are passive. No loud cpu fans for me. Case fans are 120mm (3 of them) and are variable speed depending on temperature. Maybe some of the poor people with the dual G5's should try and switch to this case seeing some are complaining about very high temps ;) Its not pretty but definitly has room and does the job.

http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/1.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/2.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/3.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/4.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/5.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/6.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/7.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/8.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/9.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/10.jpg
http://powerthings.com/pics/chenbro/11.jpg
 
LOL I said it was ugly ;) Anyway that my primary box and my B&W G3 is now my 2nd box. Anyway the point was that quicktime on the PC kinda sucks and its probably why there might be some sites not using it anymore.

LOL I just thought of something. fjdouse, you have a mac mini. I think I can put at least 15 of those mac minis in this server case. LOL.
 
Ye Gods! ;-) You should have seen the PC's I've had, my old Linux/MythTV box was called Leviathon - for a good reason.

Now, take some Apple medicine and buy a nice Mac my friend... :D

..and yep, I tend to agree with you about Quicktime on the PC - Apple should do better to demonstrate to PC users that they can make really good software.
 
yes. using windows because the box is too heavy to steal as opposed to using a real OS on a box that is theoretically stealable is the perfect choice.
 
By real OS if you mean one that has little software selection in stores, has kernel panics at least 5x more than XP ever has bluescreens, feels heavy and sluggish on the GUI, still has permission issues that are rediculous and has terrible openGL performance for games or anything fun and who's last revision is bad enough that every single last mac owner in our graphic design department switched back to 10.3.9 since 10.4 was more problematic than release candide (beta) ever was for XP. Sounds great. Where can I sign up?
 
contoursvt said:
By real OS if you mean one that has little software selection in stores, has kernel panics at least 5x more than XP ever has bluescreens, feels heavy and sluggish on the GUI, still has permission issues that are rediculous and has terrible openGL performance for games or anything fun and who's last revision is bad enough that every single last mac owner in our graphic design department switched back to 10.3.9 since 10.4 was more problematic than release candide (beta) ever was for XP. Sounds great. Where can I sign up?

I don't understand what's wrong with Tiger. I think it's great.
 
Well I personally have not tried it but at work on my 2nd box I use 10.3.9 and the graphic design dept runs the same. The guys at the design departement went out and picked up 10.4 and within 2 weeks all were frustrated for assorted reasons and went back down. One guy said that its got too many little bugs and that maybe 6 months from now after a few updates, it will be ready. He said itw as unstable and he has probs with certain apps he could not get going and also claimed that it felt slower on his dual 1.25 G4. I'm only going by what I've heard from people who use MacOS every day and I know they have more experience with it than me. I do mostly PC support and some mac support but I dont know it well enough to be the primary support person. My B&W G3 is not bad but I have had my share of kernel panics - more than I'd like and I hardly have any software on there. Maybe the box needs a firmware update but I personally have not found it as stable as Win2k or XP (virus and spyware aside)
 
Yeah, I'm calling BS on your assessment. Just as someone needs to know Windows well enough to not get infected with adware/spyware within 10 minutes of being connected to the internet, your graphics people need to know Macs. If they are having kernel panics - there is a problem.

Mac OS X is rock solid. No OS is without problems though. If you receive a kernel panic, there is something wrong wither either:
a) Your HD
b) Your memory
c) an app/kernel extension

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the KP's happen at random intervals, it's not a particular app causing them. Have them remove any 3rd party RAM and try running with the factory RAM for awhile to see if that alleviates the problem. If that doesn't, then the problem is most likely the hard drive. Perform a back up, wipe the drive and zero it out, do a fresh install, and add you files back slowly.

Tiger has been running on my Mac and every Mac in my office just fine since the week after it's release. We're running Photoshop CS, Studio MX, and a dozen or so smaller apps with zero problem. And speeds are as fast as Panther. Actually, faster, especially in the startup routines, which are considerably shorted with Tiger.

Did your friend with the dual 1.25ghz (same machine I have at work) do a clean install, an archive install, or an upgrade? If the latter, have him try either a clean install or an archive/install. That should fix most problems.

contoursvt said:
Well I personally have not tried it but at work on my 2nd box I use 10.3.9 and the graphic design dept runs the same. The guys at the design departement went out and picked up 10.4 and within 2 weeks all were frustrated for assorted reasons and went back down. One guy said that its got too many little bugs and that maybe 6 months from now after a few updates, it will be ready. He said itw as unstable and he has probs with certain apps he could not get going and also claimed that it felt slower on his dual 1.25 G4. I'm only going by what I've heard from people who use MacOS every day and I know they have more experience with it than me. I do mostly PC support and some mac support but I dont know it well enough to be the primary support person. My B&W G3 is not bad but I have had my share of kernel panics - more than I'd like and I hardly have any software on there. Maybe the box needs a firmware update but I personally have not found it as stable as Win2k or XP (virus and spyware aside)
 
contoursvt said:
By real OS if you mean one that has little software selection in stores, has kernel panics at least 5x more than XP ever has bluescreens, feels heavy and sluggish on the GUI, still has permission issues that are rediculous and has terrible openGL performance for games or anything fun and who's last revision is bad enough that every single last mac owner in our graphic design department switched back to 10.3.9 since 10.4 was more problematic than release candide (beta) ever was for XP. Sounds great. Where can I sign up?

Usually I try and stay out of this, but here goes...

Windows is a REAL OS
Personally, I think a real OS is something that allows you to do your tasks safely and securely without the fear of some rogue application installing itself and mucking up of your computing experience. This also includes the myriad of software that is necessary to run in the background to prevent these rogue applications from installing themselves.

I also think each revision of said "real OS" should make your computer function FASTER, not SLOWER. I don't know about you, but each version of Mac OS X that I've used (from 10.1 to 10.3) has made the system feel faster and more stable than the last. If you had problems, then consider that it might have been the way you installed 10.4. I don't know how many times I've told people to install Windows a certain way but you still see people "upgrading" from previous versions incorrectly, and then wonder why everything is messed up. :rolleyes:

Also regarding speed, if you are expecting stellar performance on OS X with a B&W G3 that was introduced a little over 6 years ago, I would like to see you get even the SLIGHTEST performance you'd get on OS X with your G3 Power Mac on a comparable PC from that year running the latest Windows XP.

And here we are still waiting for Loooooooooooong-in-the-tooth-horn to show us a REAL OS. Although it seems more like hot air since almost everything promised has been removed. ::sleepy::

Lack of Mac Software in Stores
I don't know about you, but for most of the major apps out there, there's always (for the most part) a Mac equivalent. Office, IE (if you choose to use that), Adobe, Macromedia, etc. etc..... They are all there.

As far as I know, the rest of the apps that aren't on the Mac seem to be poorly developed applications for people that would rather by cheap. Well, you get what you pay for. It is very rare to find bargain third-class applications for the Mac since most Mac users wouldn't even bother with such trash.

If by lack of software you mean games?? If you haven't noticed, most of the major games are also available for the Mac. And even some Mac only titles offer wonderful gameplay, which I'm sure many Mac users can attest to.

Which brings me to my next mention...

Slower Performance for Games Ported to the Mac
Again, the emphasis here is PORTED. Consider that many Windows games are written for DirectX. This is mainly the reason why most games ported to the Mac perform sluggishly since Mac OS X uses OpenGL. Most of these ports are not done well either because they don't have the manpower for the port, or they just don't care. What about those games that were written using OpenGL from the start? I'm sure those would be running a lot faster compared to the DirectX-Windows-to-Mac ports. And what about those original games for the Mac??? Trust me, I'm sure they run QUITE fine.

I hate this bickering about OSes as much as anyone else, but I think someone has to come out with the rebuttal. Anyways, for the record I run Mac OS Classic, Windows, Linux, and I use Mac OS X at my job. Each and everyone of the machines that I've installed an OS on has been running without issues, although I do have to say that Windows lags behind, especially since I have to protect it with so much software so that it's not compromised in 12 minutes! There are too many factors to say whether one is more stable than the other, so its safe to say that each can be as solid as the other but it's only as stable as the installation performed by the installer.
 
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