What's left for WWDC?

Quicksilver said:
I say go for it, its never been a better time. Oh and speaking on re-developing osx for x86 it would most probably already exist somwhere in a secure lab there at apple. c'mon it would have to.
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Why on EARTH would Apple have spent time and money porting OSX to the x86 platform, if they weren't going to release it to a PC audience? For fun? For kicks?

Because they had a Dell somewhere and they didn't know what to do with it?


I can't think of one good reason for them to put SO MUCH EFFORT into producing an OS that runs on PCs. PCs which need device drivers for each of its components - device drivers for EVERY PIECE OF HARDWARE IN THE PC WORLD. That's a whole lot of drivers that no-one except Apple has any real incentive to produce.



The last thing I want to see at this WWDC is:

"Mac OS X
For Mac and PC"


Urgh, *shudder* - please no. It would be a monumental failure on Apple's part.
 
why would it be a failure? that's the one thing I have not seen explained away without a shadow of a doubt. it's not like they can't also sell that hardware too.

:shrug:

I just must be missing something. Too many years as a MCSE perhaps? Perhaps I'm not deeply enough into the "apple culture" which seems to eschew x86 like a vampire does garlic? Just sorta confused at the knee-jerk reactions shown in this thread at x86 OSX.
 
I don't doubt that Apple has, at least, toyed with the idea of OS X on x86 hardware -- that's not saying that Apple ever had plans to release OS X that would run on Intel/Windows hardware. Apple can use an x86 processor and still prevent OS X from installing on conventional hardware -- all it would take is some ROM chip or open firmware dingy.

A year ago or more Steve said, when asked about OS X on x86 hardware, that he wasn't ruling out any options. He didn't confirm nor deny it. And we already know that Darwin, the essense of OS X, runs just fine on x86 hardware.

I don't think Apple ever intends to release OS X for Windows-compatible computers. I do think, however, that OS X on an x86-based, closed platform could be a possibility. Now that IBM is kicking some butt with their processors, I think that possibility got even slimmer, but it's always gonna be there.
 
Anyone here read the article on macnews.com about "liquid cooling" the 3GHz G5 processor? This is not a new idea; they tried it in car amps in the 90's with limited success. What we need is a chip that runs faster but not hotter, and that's the real connundrum.

I say Apple will finally get smart and fully capitalize on its iTunes success (how many million songs and counting, and a $2.40/share price jump today?!) and turn the home into a digital audio empire. :)
 
gerbick said:
why would it be a failure? that's the one thing I have not seen explained away without a shadow of a doubt. it's not like they can't also sell that hardware too.

:shrug:

I just must be missing something. Too many years as a MCSE perhaps? Perhaps I'm not deeply enough into the "apple culture" which seems to eschew x86 like a vampire does garlic? Just sorta confused at the knee-jerk reactions shown in this thread at x86 OSX.
Click to expand...

Because Apple is in business to sell hardware. They'd pretty much be out of business or at the very least their revenue stream would dry up drastically if they take the one core piece of software and convert it to x86. The diehards would never leave, but a typical user interested only in OS X itself would surely not pass up the opportunity of running OS X on cheap, fast, x86 hardware.
 
I am not sure Apple would fail. Imagine curent hardware sale staying at the current volume level and in addition to that Apple selling OS X for slightly more (200-250$) for PC's. Revenue could even go up... Why would Apple hardware sales dry up? People who really really need the latest and greatest Dual G5's still will buy the dual G5's. Perhaps the consumer line would dwindle a bit, but it still has style as selling point. It's not like nobody is buying Bang an& Olufsen just because there is also El-Cheapo equipment. I'm not saying they _should_ do it, it's just that I am not excluding a priori that they _could_ do it succesfully.
 
It's the PC industry, the masses are expecting cheap, affordable machines.
The core of users that find the Mac easy to use and care little if anything about the hardware would certainly make the move to x86. And lets face it there are plenty that fall in that category. Fragmentation is something Apple doesn't need to worry about, particularly if it erodes hardware sales.
 
Take iTunes for example. On my bosses PC, when he first downloaded iTunes, minimizing caused a blue screen...

The point to this story? Apple on x86 may be better or worse than Windows on x86. Remember the Apple clones?

With anyone out there able to build their own out of any random hardware they find, Apple would have to spend incredible amounts of money, time, and manpower to get OSX on x86 to be anywhere as great as it is on PPC.

Its a double edged sword. You want any hardware you see in the store and millions of software titles, so those people buy a PC and get it, but suffer through the pains. On the other hand, when Windows customers want server hardware, they tend to look at large companies like EMC, who's solutions are primarily proprietary, since that's the only way you can guarantee the uptime users demand.

Apple is the medium. You can't just slap anything into your machine, but you don't really want to, either.
 
The thing I keep going back to is Mac's reputation for being easier.

And that's because they are. My mum can use my PowerBook very productively with no help. When she needs to submit an assignment she's just typed up on her little PC box, she calls me into her study to help her.

Now imagine trying to explain to people like my mum that "You want to go buy the PC version of Photoshop. Well... no, you need the Mac-on-PC version. Not the Mac version. Yes, you're using it on a PC. No, you don't want the PC version, it works with Windows only. Well you have Mac OS on your PC, not Windows. You want the version developed for Macs, but for Macs running on PCs."

Oh God, I shudder to think. I don't have anything against x86 processors, they're great, I work at a Windows-world PC sales and repair shop for a living. I use a PC most of the time. But the time on my Mac is just more productive, more creative. BETTER.

And if you're not going to let an x86 version run on anything but proprietary Apple-approved hardware to solve the driver problem, then what's the point?

I'm one of many XP users who lives on a computer that looks like Panther but acts like Windows, and that's how I like it. I have my Mac for Mac OS.
 
Go3iverson said:
Take iTunes for example. On my bosses PC, when he first downloaded iTunes, minimizing caused a blue screen...

The point to this story? Apple on x86 may be better or worse than Windows on x86. Remember the Apple clones?

[..part removed..]

Its a double edged sword.
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Here here!

Who wants people to associate Mac with that horrible buggy thing they tried on their PC one time before going back to tried and true Windows?

Mac OS on Macs works like a dream. It's amazing to see it all fit together exactly like it should. Let's let people associate THAT experience with Macs.

If only a few people have had the good fortune to operate a Mac, and all like it, it's far better than giving everyone the opportunity to use Mac OS and having them hate it. You'd be condemning yourself.
 
Microsoft is the business model that apple failed to implement (the licensing aspect, anyway) and so must then push its product's value and cool-factor over sheer volume. Well, their one foray into licensing was a disaster: Remember PowerComputing?! :)
 
texanpenguin said:
Why on EARTH would Apple have spent time and money porting OSX to the x86 platform, if they weren't going to release it to a PC audience? For fun? For kicks?

Because they had a Dell somewhere and they didn't know what to do with it?


I can't think of one good reason for them to put SO MUCH EFFORT into producing an OS that runs on PCs. PCs which need device drivers for each of its components - device drivers for EVERY PIECE OF HARDWARE IN THE PC WORLD. That's a whole lot of drivers that no-one except Apple has any real incentive to produce.



The last thing I want to see at this WWDC is:

"Mac OS X
For Mac and PC"


Urgh, *shudder* - please no. It would be a monumental failure on Apple's part.
Click to expand...



Ahhh! For emergency purpose ONLY! i can't see them releasing it ever, but if they were to? what i was not clearly pointing out was that it would be a tactical move. For if Apple were ever to do such a move, now could or would be the best time to.

Why do you think most enterprise corporations are seriously considering of going Linux? what about apple? what's happening there with that?
Fair enough apple has captured some, but not what it should or really could be, hey?

I don't see Apple EVER, EVER getting to the market share what microsoft has ever achieved, let alone near. Because of this very reason. Apple sells Hardware and Its Operating Software (OS X). I can't truly see the masses buying just that. Companies like HP, Compaq, Dell, Acer, etc, may lose so much in the process, and people/companies will be cornered into one product/brand, etc.

What i was also not clear on was that if Apple really wants the enterprise market on that level, then it would most probably be more "industry moving", profitably and economicly. For programmers, developers, and hardware organisations, etc. Even for Apple itself. But then Apple will be treding on some people's toes wouldn't they?

Remember, most people like lots of "options" and that's one of the reasons Linux is getting some good business now, its an option, thats all. I saw some news on a site where os x "Tiger" will work better with Linux some way or another, i didn't take much notice.

I respect your opinion but my points are mearly an idea based on common market knowledge. We are in a news+rumors discussions forum and i wanted to express an idea that i think is plausable if apple wants that kind of market and its share. Truly i see Apple as a consumer marketed brand more than a enterprise level brand and that is where i think is where apple is doing great.
 
PLUS - if Apple had become the giant that is Microsoft, whats to say that the Mac OS wouldn't be as pants as Windows is now? Having a 90+% market share is gonna play hell with bug checking and stuff, because of the sheer volume of code to check, and 3rd party apps to support...
 
ooo - back to the general WWDC suggestions, you remember that patent that Apple took out, for a mouse with an iPod-like horizontal scroll wheel...

Would there be any chance that they might be releasing something like that? I know theres been a lot of rumours and calls for an Apple 2-buttoned mouse, which have kinda become a regular thing before Apple Expo's, and maybe aren't all that likely, but an Apple mouse with a scroll wheel? Thats not a two-buttoned mouse as we know it, so it would be innovative and stuff. Apple said in their patent for the idea that they specifically didnt like the style of scroll-wheels that are currently on mice, because you can only use about a 1/4 of the wheel, so you can't continuousley scroll, and they look ugly. (Not the exact words, but that was the gist of what they said. It was pretty bluntly put though...)

I think it was fryke (appologies if wrong) who said that the developers consortium was more the kind of arena for the release of something that could be developed, and suggested new things built into the OS, or frameworks, and stuff like that. A mouse with a horizontal scroll wheel would be something that could be developed - you could presumably use it to do more than you can do with a vertical scroll wheel, because you can continuousley revolve the wheel without raising youre finger, it would be more intuitave for horizontal scrolling, and stuff like that. Plus, you could program it to, say, control volume, scroll through a movie clip, change hue/saturation properties of a picture? Yes, you could do all those things with a standard scroll wheel, but you wouldnt be able to continuousley revolve the thing, so itd be pants for RSI and posture and things.

Well, its got something novel, something that Apple thinks looks asthetically pleasing, and something that (might) have potential for novel software development... Is it worthy, or even likely or possible to appear at WWDC?
 
I'm trying to envision some way to put a jog-wheel on a mouse...

I hadn't heard of such a patent, but if they're going to have a go at "revolutionising mice" let's not go anywhere near the problems with the puck mouse. I personally found it very comfortable, but it was an international flop...
 
the patent's real... I've just been wondering what in the hell will they use it on. last I checked, that type of scrolling would be good only if I was doing limited things... like manipulating my iPod.

the puck was indeed a flop. and as far as people saying that Apple has do lead people into the 64-bit era - there's been 64-bit versions of Unix out for years. 'tis nothing really new.

Not unless you're narrowing it down to just the "desktop" market.

I'd like to see something revolutionary. Not another colour of the iPod mini, not a slight iPod HD increase, but something that makes me go "damn, where's my wallet!?"... and a 30-inch monitor that will invariably cost as much as a dual 2.5ghz G5 just isn't that sexy.

and I just don't see them doing this... not right now. Heck, even the true 20th anniversary of the Mac came and went without nothing really being delivered.

oh well... nevermind me. I'm just a bit upset after having a kernel panic attack in the middle of a 54 layer photoshop composition, and I had saved maybe 15 minutes prior, but I was making some serious headway with it. bleh.
 
texanpenguin said:
I'm trying to envision some way to put a jog-wheel on a mouse...

I hadn't heard of such a patent, but if they're going to have a go at "revolutionising mice" let's not go anywhere near the problems with the puck mouse. I personally found it very comfortable, but it was an international flop...
Click to expand...

Following the link that gerbick left can lead to the picture half way down this page: http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2003/20030425.shtml

And the patent itself can be found here: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...303.PGNR.&OS=dn/20030076303&RS=DN/20030076303 (Thanks gerbick, I was gonna find a link like that with my origional post, but was too tired, so i went to bed instead).

gerbick said:
the patent's real... I've just been wondering what in the hell will they use it on. last I checked, that type of scrolling would be good only if I was doing limited things... like manipulating my iPod.
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Intreagued - why would that kind of scrolling be limited in functionaily? Surely itd be every bit as good as a 'normal' scroll wheel? (Although, I dont have an iPod, or anything else with that kind of scroll wheel, so I wouldnt know how easy they are to use).
Plus, I'd guess that theyd use it for a mouse, as the patents' got diagrams of mice in it, even though they do leave it pretty open by saying that 'the position of the dial relative to the mouse housing may be widely varied.'

(The diagrams show a mouse like the ones we use today - NOT a puck mouse, and the patent goes on and on about being able to use the entire body of the mouse as a button)
 
Just a few points:
- Apple will take out a patent on any invention they may want to protect. This does not consitute a commitment to actually release a product.
- In regards to MacOSX on X86, Apple is strongly committed to the PowerPC architecture, which has recently been opened up in an "open-source" style license to allow chip developers to collaborate on improving the PPC architecture. Their contract with IBM for the G5 chipset is worth over 5 Billion dollars over the next 5 years. We can pretty much quash any X86 rumors as being unlikely.
 
I think apple will release a new safari beta with ultra cool features... It's the developer conference, and didn't they let safari out of the box last year at wwdc? Safari 1.2b or something, and people are gonna be able to organize their tabs!
 
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