whats the deal with this? [G5 bashing from slashdot]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

Look, there is no really decent way to run benchmarks against different processors. The SPEC benchmark tests use a compliler that is specifically designed to run on Intel processors. That way Intel scores higher than AMD. Accusing Apple of doing the same thing that Intel already does is a bit silly.

A better test is one that I will run everyday and that is real world applications. How fast will it render a complex Photoshop file? How fast will it render a Final Cut Pro movie or in the interest of cross-platform challenges, how fast will it render a two hour video clip in Premiere?

I care about processor intensive tasks like rendering a video file. I don't care which one opens up Word faster. Word will be open in a few seconds. Knock 90 minutes off a two hour rendering job and you have my attention.
 
Respectively, that article makes a lot of good points and shouldn't just be scoffed at. The G5 is not so much faster than anything else that it can safely be labled "The World's Fastest PC." The truth is, it's very hard to tell and apple is misleading people by stressing that it is indeed the world's fastest pc. I definately think it would be a good idea for Apple to reconsider their slogan.
 
He's done his own research and come up with his own conclusion, which is more than I can say for any of those flamers he's posted below the article. Those people get too worked up about nothing when in fact it's wise to remember that a computer is a tool. It has a purpose and those purposes are different between Windows, Linux and Macintosh. Half the people posting probably never even use gcc, so the tests are irrelevant anyway. Plus, what does it matter if the writer of this article thinks Apple is lying, I'll still use my iMac over a dual xeon any day.

but while I'm on the subject of comparing computers to tools, I'd like to point out that Windows can be compared to a drill without any drill bit or a lazy susan. We're all a little biased sometimes :D
 
I partially agree with the author of that article; I don't think that Apple is deliberately trying to mislead their non-technically literate users into thinking that the G5 is something much greater than it really is, however I do think that they're throwing around phrases like "The World's Fastest PC" and "Faster than Intel" way too much and by doing so is putting their credibility for these claims in jeopardy. They should wait until they have Dual 3GHz G5s out the door before making these claims.... but who knows what Intel and AMD will have by then.
 
Nah! That guy and the majority of Wintel users are trolling BIG way! ::ha::

I will take my chance with Jobs, Schiller, eMagic, Mathematica and Luxology guys anyday before I will listen to ANY Wintel FUD... ::ha::

Damn even Adobe's CEO (yeah that Adobe with the PC Preferred fiasco) said that G5 is a monster computer! Well, not exactly in those words! :rolleyes:

Boom! :D ;) :)
 
So Trolls are already now bashing an unreleased beta OS and not-yet-shipping hardware ... They must be really afraid then! :D

On a side note: the worst problem of G4 systems was the FSB, which has now been _dramatically_ improved, along with all the other internal bandwidth. That alone is such a Great Jump Forward that it leaves most other PC systems in the dust. The G5 is the fastest Personal Computer in the World. Be afraid, be very afraid. We will be at 3 GHz _within_ a year, not after a year, with bumps in between, I assure you. Maybe already before Xmas or at MWSF2004 we'll have dual 2.5 GHz systems and single 2.0 as low end. What will the Wintel world say then? :rolleyes:

Fear us: We are the Mac and we are back! :cool:
 
Originally posted by Cat
So Trolls are already now bashing an unreleased beta OS and not-yet-shipping hardware ... They must be really afraid then! :D

I agree, they are blasting Apple, already. Why is it that whenever Apple does something, they troll. Nothing has been released to the public yet, and they have started.

Even if the G5 is not as fast, the quality of the processor, OS and hardware is far superior to wintel machines. :D

"Windows is like holding the big crayon in Kindergarten"::ha::
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Many here certainly remember when the PPC first came out and beat the dung out of 486. Today, we have a G5 system the does the same with Intel chips and we have the same whining from the Wintel side just like back then.
Guess what: They just can't stand seeing Apple taking the lead of the pack once more!

As some have posts already point out: Real world performance will still be the real test for these new babies.
 
Originally posted by WinWord10
I partially agree with the author of that article; I don't think that Apple is deliberately trying to mislead their non-technically literate users into thinking that the G5 is something much greater than it really is, however I do think that they're throwing around phrases like "The World's Fastest PC" and "Faster than Intel" way too much and by doing so is putting their credibility for these claims in jeopardy. They should wait until they have Dual 3GHz G5s out the door before making these claims.... but who knows what Intel and AMD will have by then.
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it's called 'marketing', and every company does it. if the G5 beats intel in just one thing... even if it's only in boot time, apple can stick the phrase "faster than intel" and slap a fine print on it that most users won't even understand, let alone read in the first place.
 
OMG, Apple oiled the cucumbers and put the best looking strawberries at the top of the pint??? :) So what else is happening in the world.

I think the big thing is that we are off Motorola's lacksidaisical schedule. 3 gig in 12 months, what will that be like?

PPC cooked the 486, and the g3 toasted the PII, it was in between that Macs showed their pot-bellies. Now we may stay ahead because IBM is interested in speed. Motorola was not.
 
lol, well not surprisingly many of you are trolls yourselves. Can you proove that Apple really does have the fastest pc? No. Let's look at it fairly. If Apple is trying to save some face among geeks by improving their processor speeds and keeping their prices competitive, they should say it's one of the fastest PC's. Saying it's THE fastest pc is hard to proove when they're conducting most of the tests and hardly anyone outside of Apple will even be able to use one until August. You know that these so-called "trolls" will continue their tradition of using any chance they get to bash Macs. When Apple can proove that the G5 is, without a doubt, the fastest pc in the world and give us solid proof is when they can start using slogans like that. Yes, boi, it's marketing, but it's misleading and unfair marketing. Personally I would respect them much more if they did amend their claim to something not as radical, but more proovable than what they have now. They're getting alot of attention from this article and unless fully independant tests are conducted in which Apple, Intel, Dell, or AMD have nothing to do with, Apple is put in a rather akward position trying to defend their claims.

Before now, Dell likely did have the fastest PC... or maybe it was HP or IBM, but they didn't call it that because it was too hard to proove. Apple is obviously taking very positive steps to improving their computers by partnering with IBM and releasing processors twice as fast as what they had. That alone is enough to sell lots of G5's to switchers and people who wouldn't have considered them before.
 
1. Apple clearly picked tests for the keynote that would easily show the "superiority" of the G5. I don't think any of us would dispute that.

2. By Apple's own admission, one of the SPEC scenarios put the G5 10% behind.

3. Nobody has a G5 yet, so it's interesting that everyone is suddenly an expert.

4. However, bottom line is that, by all accounts except the most ardent Mac-haters, the G5 is going to be really, really fast. It appears that it will more or less level the playing field. Yes, Intel will deliver a better chip shortly, but then the next G5 will seesaw back once again. At least the seesaw is moving again. For a long time it was a big fat kid with an ice cream cone against a skinny little girl eating a cracker.

5. In the end, even if it turns out that across the board the G5 is slightly slower than a P4/Xeon in many ways (which I doubt BTW), it's still virtually guaranteed to be a full 3-4 times faster than my machine right now and that's saying something. And I get to use my favorite OS on a really fast machine. Let em troll, whine and otherwise. I'm going to be very, very happy for a while.

6. For those requesting that Apple not say it's the fastest PC in the world, remember that it's really mostly a marketing phrase, like Best Tasting Butter. Apple can back up their claim to a certain extent and many of believe that for a short period it really is going to be the fastest personal machine overall. If that's the case, they sure as hell should be saying so. If it's not the case, the world will find out and let us know.

7. 3 gig in 12 months. 50% performance increase in 12 months. That is a freaking huge boost in a short span. Nice roadpath.
 
Can you proove that Apple really does have the fastest pc?
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Yes, obviously. There is this VeriTest thinghy, were all the data and all the specs are put nicely side by side and the author makes it painfully clear what exactly he means by fastest etc. He defines step by step what he means, gives all the data and shows all the results. The results point out that the G5 is the fastest of the tested machines.

You can then, obviously, claim that the way of testing is wrong, etc. But this particular test, which is rather objective and independent, crowns the G5. Other tests, with other hardware and compilers etc. may claim other things. But this is not the point! The point is that everywhere where Apple claims: The G5 is the fastest, Apple refers to this test to explain why it is entitled to claim so.

Simple: I define the fastest computer by looking at which one gets more fps in Quake III. So lets see: the G5 scores higher than the Dell? OK: then the G5 is fastest. Easy, no? :D Proof given: Quod erat demonstrandum.
 
The tests were not conducted independantly. They were done by Veritest under contract with Apple. The way I see it, Apple had some influence on the results because of that and you can't just automatically trust the results as being completely accurate. It's very likely that some tests were altered to make the G5 look better, in perticular by turning off hyperthreading on the P4's. Apple even turned off some features that will probably be on when the G5's ship, like prefetching, and instead enabled a high-performance malloc which is impractical for normal useage and probably will not ship as the default on the G5's in August.

All of these alterations render the Apple tests unfair, and make it impossible for us to tell if it is the fastest or not.
 
You do know that turnign off hyperthreading speeds up single threaded computations like SPEC and therefore increased the Intel box's score. That is the reason Intel and Dell also turn it off when they run these benchmarks.

Unless you are arguing that the scores should be lower for the Intel box :)
 
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