Attention Mac Pirates...

[fictional story with moral]So anyway, the other day I needed a part for my car, but I didn't have the money for it. So I decided to steal it. I installed the piece and now the car works. I think I should probably pay for it, but I'll do it when I have the money. I'm still supporting the company that made the part, though, because I use their product.[/fictional story with moral]

The same goes for software. You can justify it all you want, but if you didn't pay for the software, it's illegal and it doesn't support the company because it doesn't make them money. If you buy the product later down the road, then you are supporting them at that point, but not before that.

Certain companies like Microshaft don't care how much they sell of a product, they will still charge the same arm and leg for it. But other companies may be more reasonable: If Adobe sold a copy of Photoshop to every Mac user in the entire digital world, do you think they would keep the price at $600, or would they lower it because they can sell more units of it and make much more money?

Of course, if they sold it to everyone, it wouldn't make a difference, but that's not the point.
 
that story would only pertain to software if the following were true:
you looked at the car part a lot. you read the brand name over and over and over again.
you told your friends about the car part. "this is a great car part!" you say. "one day i will buy one just like it!"
you show your friends your car. "you know, this car wouldn't be the same without that car part. that car part created this car." and there was a place where you and a bunch of friends with that same car part could show off their cars. "i made this car with the adobe car part! see how badass it is?"

you see, since you could not afford the car part, you had two options. let's explore them, shall we?
1: you did not buy the car part.
this results in you not talking about the car part, you not reading the label every day, and you not becoming acquainted with the car part. you are not a part of the car part community. you do not know how to use the car part.

2: you steal the car part (more like clone it and steal the clone)
you see the adobe label on your car part. eventually you decide adobe is the best creator of car parts ever. you tell your friends about the car part, and you show off your car, which was created because of this car part. when the car starts generating revenue (don't ask), then you purchase that car part, and every subsequent car part from then on.


i think a lot of people underestimate the huge marketing advantage of having a good percentage of the world using your product. pretty soon everyone knows you have a fantastic product, and everyone has heard of you. this only pertains to large corporations, of course. joe developer will go out of business if people start pirating his little productivity app. huge corporations do not rely on joe developer's productivity app, and only the casual consumers are pirating it. doh. joe developer is hungry.
 
Only if Joe Developer makes a business selling his minorware.

I like the "when the car starts generating revenue (don't ask)" part. LOL!

LOL!
 
i think a lot of people underestimate the huge marketing advantage of having a good percentage of the world using your product. pretty soon everyone knows you have a fantastic product, and everyone has heard of you. this only pertains to large corporations, of cours
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I think too many people here OVER estimate the marketing advantage of having a good percentage of the world using your product.

Adobe could give a rats rear end about the 100,000 people pirating their software. These people don't contribute to the companys bottom line one iouta. Adobe doesn't pay their engineers good money to make a product that will do real well on Carracho or Hotline. They make a product that will SELL real well. Can I say that again - SELL real well. Adobe doesn't benefit from the goodwill of piraters just because they are using their product. Adobe has the image manipulation market wrapped up. They don't need to do any promotion (apart from announcing a new version). Remember, the only company that feels the only way to compete is to give away their product to decimate the competition is Microsoft (as they did with IE to kill Netscape). But once they get you hooked they make you pay for it (like the pushers they are).

Ardens example is right on the money. Any disagreement on the issue is just further paddling down the denial river...
 
It's been a good start for the thread, but now we're beating the horse that has been dead the _last_ time we've been beating it.

Please accept that there are several opinions about this.

Yes, Adobe _was_ (and maybe is) happy that their software was spread around the world, because it helped Adobe sell more copies of their software later. ("The kid that can't afford a Photoshop license grew up with a pirated copy and later paid for a license when actually working for money." type of story.)

At the same time, you're right Serpicolugnut: Those people don't contribute to the company's bottom line one iota. However: If pirating were impossible, they wouldn't either. Then they'd use some free/cheap alternative. So Adobe, actually, doesn't have to care about them.

And a third opinion: Software piracy is stealing. Stealing is illegal in many countries around the world (and in yours, too, probably). So, if you steal software, you're a thief. The fact that the probability of getting caught is small doesn't make it legal.

And a fourth: Who cares? Adobe is a company that has been making money. If they start _not_ making any money, they're a bad company, as companies like Adobe are, basically, about making profit. There _ARE_ means to make it more difficult to pirate software (USB dongles, internet activation of software, MAC address combination for serial numbers etc.) and Adobe could use it. Adobe, however, has chosen the smart option: "Let's use the pretty simple serial number option. Yes, there will be pirating, but the professionals pay us, because they actually know what we're giving them."
 
Originally posted by fryke
...MAC address combination...
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That gave me an interesting, though unlikely, idea.

What if you had to register a product, say Adobe's products, online, including giving them your home or business address. Then a representative from Adobe comes to your house or office, you show him/her your proof of purchase, and (s)he registers the product for you. That would definitely deter piracy, though the inefficiency and cost would probably cost more than Adobe loses to warez in the first place.

Besides, haven't you ever beat a dead horse with a golf club until it was mashed into spaghetti sauce, then burned the remains with lighter fluid and tossed it into a trash compactor, then encased what was left in cement and thrown it into the sea? For frykin' out loud...
 
I don't think there are very many companies at all that would consider going that route. They'd have to open up shops all over the place just so they could send representatives out.
 
Originally posted by Randman
It's wrong no matter when. I would think a student might have more opportunities to not do it. Using someone's computer or a uni computer, getting the folks to buy it, getting a student discount. And the earlier one gets in the notion that stealing is acceptable, the harder it will be to stop later on.
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you're right but if you have no money and is broke as hell i say let the little bastards cheat.

i happen t o know of a bunch of companies i work for taht doesn't pay for every install - they should be the ones that people go after.
 
you're right but if you have no money and is broke as hell i say let the little bastards cheat.
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When do you draw the line? What if someone wants something and is low on money? Or saving up for a new car? Stealing is stealing. How would you like it some broke, cheap bastard stole the apps from your computer? Or stole your computer? But you're right. If they have no money and are broke as hell, I say let the little bastards take whatever they want from you. There's been plenty of threads on this board about cheap, legal and viable alternatives.
 
All of this (with regard to Adobes apps, at least) will soon become moot. Adobe has been testing out product activation in Austrailia I hear, and will be going international with the program real soon.

Basically, that means that instead of entering a sn#, you will have to call Adobe to activate the product (like Windows) and you will be tied to that machine unless you call and transfer the license to another machine.

I'm not a big fan of this, but I can understand why they are doing it. Personally, I'd rather they take the dongle approach. I used to be very anti-dongle, but having used one now for almost 2 years with Lightwave, it doesn't bother me much, and allows me to install my software on multiple machines, and just move the dongle with me as I work. My only complaint about the Newtek dongle is that I wish it was a Pass-Through dongle, so it didn't waste a USB port.

Adobe went the dongle route back in the After Effects 2.5 days, so I doubt they will back track to it. But they seem very enamored with the product activiation pilot program, so I'm sure we'll all be seeing that here in the US real soon....
 
Regardless of what Adobe does Apple still has to put full effort into keeping FCP/FCE top notch apps. Apple still has to compete against Adobe, but now it is a Mac vs. Winblows thing and the stakes are higher. If Adobe makes a better product then FCP/FCE, people will switch, and the results will be worse.

Nothing has changed.
 
Hmm... I don't think Adobe would go activation. The one big company that tried it out has shown that as soon as the thing is released (and even before that, actually) there are loopholes to be found in the activation code that enable 'bad minds' to write registration key generators (because actually you still just have to 'guess' a number in order to turn the software functional).

It's a lot of effort (call centers, internet registration stuff) that doesn't really pay off - plus you _do_ upset your customers with product activation (at least if done the Microsoft way...).
 
Hmm... I don't think Adobe would go activation
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They already are...

Austrailia is a test run. It will make it's way to the rest of the world in time for the PS8 roll out later in the fall...

Personally, I prefer the dongle to activation, but so long as Adobe is forgiving in their granting of codes (allowing for OS reinstalls, 2nd machine), which it sounds like they will be, I won't be too bothered by it.
 
Originally posted by Randman
When do you draw the line? What if someone wants something and is low on money? Or saving up for a new car? Stealing is stealing. How would you like it some broke, cheap bastard stole the apps from your computer? Or stole your computer? But you're right. If they have no money and are broke as hell, I say let the little bastards take whatever they want from you. There's been plenty of threads on this board about cheap, legal and viable alternatives.
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like a lot of things...it comes doen to human decency. if that person has no morals whatsoever, there is nothing any company can do to prevent him.

hey...show me a solution then i'll comment. but as of right now i think students should do whatever is necessary to graduate and be appreciative when they graduate and get jobs.

(also my last post was charged but it was in response to my earlier post in which i specified students are in need more than just cheap bastards)
 
Students _do_ have money. Not much, of course, but they do. For a lot of software, there are educational versions that do cost much less. Try and get your rebates.

To make a very bad comparison: Only because you're a poor student doesn't mean you go out and steal a car, right? ;-)
 
fryke - a better comparison would be...

Just because you are a student, you don't have the right to walk in to a book store and walk out with any book without paying...software is no different...

The argument of "I'm a student, I'm poor" is bunk. Adobe/Macromedia/Apple all have quite affordable student pricing. All that's required is to show your student ID.

This thread has become quite illuminating on the many excuses people use to justify stealing....
 
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