Attention Mac Pirates...

What really interests me is how this whole thing came into being. I remember 'the beginning' quite well (or at least _my_ beginning). I was a little child and my father had some LPs. I wanted to listen to them in my room, and all I had was a tape. It was natural, from the beginning, to copy the LPs to tapes. Soon I would make copies for a friend and vice versa. I think 'sharing', that old way (personally), was something that was quite usual. And right THERE it didn't harm the artists at all. In fact THERE it was good for them, because quite a few friends of mine later on _bought_ the album. Copying to cassettes was free promotion for the record labels. Why? Because the quality sucked. I was never able to create a tape copy that came near the original vinyl record.

Then my first computer. There was a _LOT_ of free- and shareware for the Atari ST. I couldn't afford the games at the store, so I played the free ones, or the first three levels of a demo. I even coded some myself (with a pirated copy of GFA Basic 2, later I bought GFA Basic 3).

But I _bought_ my word processing application (Script! by ASH, a simpler and nicer Signum).

Now... That software cost 60 to 200 CHF, which is around 40 to 150 USD. When I bought my first Mac, it had Claris Works on it. So I used that for a long time. AppleWorks still comes with consumer Macs. (Just a side note: Your teacher/professor wants you to have MS compatibility? Tell him to give you a few hundred bucks, for chrisssakes!) But Photoshop interested me. I wasn't a college student, when I started to do graphics design. I was something like a highschool scholar. I had _no_ money. I was _given_ Photoshop 2.5 by a friend (not donated, a pirated copy). And I learned that thing. Didn't even KNOW what it cost (or that I did something wrong).

When I heard what Photoshop costs, I had two options: Stop using the copy already on my computer or become instantly rich. I guess you know that becoming rich instantly is something quite difficult. What did I do? I kept on using pirate copies and became IT admin and graphics designer in a small company. I was the one who urged them to buy enough licenses for all the workstations.

I think it's still a personal decision. (Mostly because BSA won't come after you if you have unlicensed copies of, say, three software titles for your personal use.) Even though I am all for legal copies of the software you use, I say: DO get pirate copies. DO learn the software. Trash it if you're not gonna use it, any way. Buy it if you're using it.

But heck! Much too much software is much too expensive. I'm not talking about Photoshop here. Those tools are very advanced. But there SHOULD be something like AppleWorks (but better) with good Office compatibility for less than 100 USD.

And I'd love to see Photoshop Elements be improved, also for the Mac. Because _that's_ the way to go for Adobe. PS Elements is not crippled, it's only lacking the Pro features. Do the same for Illustrator and InDesign. Do the same for GoLive. And yep: Finally Adobe can a) get more customers and b) make piracy less attractive by doing POSITIVE thinking.
 
Hey Vyper, Brooklyn aint as bad as the stereotypes make it out to be!!! It's a great place. Can you buy a gun in WalMart in Texas? :D
 
After 11 or so years of being a Mac guy, it's amazing how many horrible pieces of software have been churned out at ridiculous prices. Quark Xpress comes to mind . . . it's an inferior product (at least inferior to InDesign) but due to industry-wide acceptance (like it or not, for one reason or another, InDesign and PageMaker just fell by the wayside) Quark is still able to charge $1200 for a program that is about as technically advanced as MacWrite.

Horrible software should die. Do not mourn Premiere, and do not blame it on pirates. Premiere was incredibly difficult to learn, but I picked up FCP in a couple of sessions. The best product will prevail in the marketplace, regardless if it is free, stolen or bought.

Now if more "consumer-friendly" versions of software (viz. FCP Express) were available, then your average Joe student who cannot afford to spend more for one software product than an entire personal computing system would not be tempted to pirate.

See entry under "Music industry sales losing billions due to filesharing."

Then see Apple's Music store.
 
Originally posted by Perseus
Hey Vyper, Brooklyn aint as bad as the stereotypes make it out to be!!! It's a great place. Can you buy a gun in WalMart in Texas? :D

Speaking of guns and Brooklyn, I hear there is a steakhouse called Peter Luger there. Will you treat me?:D
 
After 11 or so years of being a Mac guy, it's amazing how many horrible pieces of software have been churned out at ridiculous prices. Quark Xpress comes to mind . . . it's an inferior product (at least inferior to InDesign) but due to industry-wide acceptance (like it or not, for one reason or another, InDesign and PageMaker just fell by the wayside) Quark is still able to charge $1200 for a program that is about as technically advanced as MacWrite.

Horrible software should die. Do not mourn Premiere, and do not blame it on pirates. Premiere was incredibly difficult to learn, but I picked up FCP in a couple of sessions. The best product will prevail in the marketplace, regardless if it is free, stolen or bought.

Now if more "consumer-friendly" versions of software (viz. FCP Express) were available, then your average Joe student who cannot afford to spend more for one software product than an entire personal computing system would not be tempted to pirate.

See entry under "Music industry sales losing billions due to filesharing."

Then see Apple's Music store.
 
Originally posted by serpicolugnut
fryke - a better comparison would be...

Just because you are a student, you don't have the right to walk in to a book store and walk out with any book without paying...software is no different...

The argument of "I'm a student, I'm poor" is bunk. Adobe/Macromedia/Apple all have quite affordable student pricing. All that's required is to show your student ID.

This thread has become quite illuminating on the many excuses people use to justify stealing....

To "rip off" means to steal. This definition works both ways. When is an overpriced, rushed-to-market piece of inferior software product a blatant ripoff for consumers, especially when they are forced to pay for "upgrades" (read: bug fixes) every six months? Sure, many programmers work for long hours and deserve to be paid fully for their time, but if they turn out a lousy product--just like a "Planet of the Apes" with Mark Wahlberg--aren't they ripping off the consumer, who shells out hard-earned cash to subsidize them?

In most industries the success or failure of a product depends upon the competitiveness of the product coupled with the affordability to the desired customer base. In other words, a Mercedes with the performance of a Ford Escort will not sell well if the Rolls Royce sells for the same amount and performs like a Roll Royce.

But the software industry is still charging Rolls Royce prices for essentially a product that, once created, is as easy to produce as a page from a copy machine.

Hate to go on, but this analogy also extends to drug companies . . .

Point is, don't rip us (the average consumer) off by charging WAAAY too much for your product, and then we won't be tempted to "not be extortioned."
 
Sure!! :D Remember tonbo, if you want to go to Peter Luger's you can only pay cash, and as one friend said: "If you see someone walk in with a violin case, leave immediately!!" ;)
 
Point is, don't rip us (the average consumer) off by charging WAAAY too much for your product, and then we won't be tempted to "not be extortioned."

Huh?....

First of all, if you are concerned about shelling out big $$$ for an app before actually using, there are several avenues to explore before buying that can give you the information you need...First off, most developers give you the option of downloading a demo, many of which will run full featured for up to 30 days. Second off, you can actually do a little RESEARCH before buying, and read reviews.

Finally, there are "light" versions of many of these programs available for very little money (PS Elements, Final Cut Express) aimed at those who can't afford the pro apps, but need some of the functionality.

Your argument is still just rationalizing stealing. There is always going to be SOMEBODY who will claim the product isn't worth the money being asked for it, and will then claim they are just fighting back against the evil company who is trying to rip off the consumer.

Using this analogy, I could go to a car dealer and steal a Hummer2 and justify it, because it was waay overpriced, and the manufacturer was just ripping off the consumer.

Puhlease...
 
Originally posted by fryke
Students _do_ have money. Not much, of course, but they do. For a lot of software, there are educational versions that do cost much less. Try and get your rebates.

To make a very bad comparison: Only because you're a poor student doesn't mean you go out and steal a car, right? ;-)

...

i think you're right but there is no way a student can afford to get the full suite with peripheral apps and upgrade every year to keep up along with tuition and living expenses.

i dont endorse stealing and piracy but i do endorse a better solution ( a new solution).

such as software companies sponsoring classes with 4 yr licences. internship programs in exchange for credits/software package.
 
Do any of you read mac magazines like Mac Addict or Macworld? Have you ever actuall looked through the 25 or so pages of ads in the back of either? Look toward the back of them... you will find a box for a company with academic discounts! In the June 2003 Macworld sitting next to me, this comes on p. 132, out of 136. (Website is mw.academicsuperstore.com BTW.)

Look at these prices:
• Dreamweaver MX for $94
• Flash for the same
• Illustrator 10 for "77% off"
• Bryce 5 for $49!
• Lightwave for $395!
• Office for 60% off!

So don't say there's no way to afford any of these.
 
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