BILL & HP copy APPLE Design
- Thread starter genehack
- Start date
GroundZeroX
Searching for logic
Here is a link to the image I was talkign about earlier. http://www.theapplecollection.com/design/macproto/022.html
MrNivit1
Registered
Ya know... Even though MS & co try to do the nice designs of Apple, they fall very short. This prototype has the look of a bulky PC (notice how tall and square the keyboard, screen, and screen stand are). Ugh... It just feels like a 1980's IBM design... Makes me shudder just looking at it.
Stridder44
Universal Traveler
GRR! Isn't Microsoft big enough!??? I hope Apple comes out with something one day blows away the PC world! Something that makes every Windows user out there question his or her desire to use Windows. Something completly different, but in a very good way (what I don't know...but something, whether its hardware or software or both). Apple is so much better than Microsoft!
malexgreen
Contributor and PB User
I agree that the monitor is a copy of the Apple Studio display, however the functionality of the hardware/software (integrating video/voice/text data) is definitely unlike anything Apple sells. I think this is another reason why Apple won't make it into corp. America to the extent that MS has. It seems Panther is going more in that direction (with iChat2.0 supporting video conferencing), but I think Panther should provide a unified tool to read your voicemail, video conference, and email, along with biometric authentication. IMHO.
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wohow, best video i've ever seen from Steve Jobs!!!!
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I'm sure that when Apple released this product (the Bill&HP) you guy went like this: "Wooow, NIIICEEE, Verrry cool design! Apple did it again!"
But now M$ has something to do with the computer and you all go like this:
"Ugly. Most ugly computer i've seen. It's so... UGLY"
Try to look at it as a computer which is from NO company, not from Apple, nor from Microsoft/HP. Then say that you like it or not.
>>>I like it.
wohow, best video i've ever seen from Steve Jobs!!!!
-----------------------------
I'm sure that when Apple released this product (the Bill&HP) you guy went like this: "Wooow, NIIICEEE, Verrry cool design! Apple did it again!"
But now M$ has something to do with the computer and you all go like this:
"Ugly. Most ugly computer i've seen. It's so... UGLY"
Try to look at it as a computer which is from NO company, not from Apple, nor from Microsoft/HP. Then say that you like it or not.
>>>I like it.
God you people are stupid. Here we have Microsoft and HP creating something new and you guys are all saying that it's ripped off of Apple. Apple did NOTHING like this. The way you guys see it, Apple invented every single geometrical shape and anybody else who uses a shape is automatically a thief.
Your fanaticism is sickening. Do you guys ever wonder WHY people despise Apple and its users so much?
Walking today, I actually realized how people are. PC users demand a lot. When using Windows, they are always faced with better products. They have a better browser in Mozilla and Opera, they have a better instant messenger in Trillian and they have a better picture viewer in AcdSee. As a result, Microsoft is constantly forced to improve its products if it wants to maintain some kind of control. Otherwise, they lose customers to those other, better products. That's why everything that comes from Microsoft has so many great features. On the Apple side though, Apple just throws whatever trash it can your way and you'll just eat it up like french fries. Apple could tomorrow decide to make a program that does nothing else but freeze your computer and one of you fanatics will start a post here talking about how well it works and how efficient it is in freezing the computer.
You guys make me sick, I'm glad I switched back to the PC.
Andre
Your fanaticism is sickening. Do you guys ever wonder WHY people despise Apple and its users so much?
Walking today, I actually realized how people are. PC users demand a lot. When using Windows, they are always faced with better products. They have a better browser in Mozilla and Opera, they have a better instant messenger in Trillian and they have a better picture viewer in AcdSee. As a result, Microsoft is constantly forced to improve its products if it wants to maintain some kind of control. Otherwise, they lose customers to those other, better products. That's why everything that comes from Microsoft has so many great features. On the Apple side though, Apple just throws whatever trash it can your way and you'll just eat it up like french fries. Apple could tomorrow decide to make a program that does nothing else but freeze your computer and one of you fanatics will start a post here talking about how well it works and how efficient it is in freezing the computer.
You guys make me sick, I'm glad I switched back to the PC.
Andre
tsizKEIK
its all about HOUSE music
first of all thanx for calling us stupid
second of all im sorry i found ur comment about microsoft products THAT funny, but it just is.
third of all, i didnt know that the world hated Apple & its users that much!!! . when i talk to ppl (whove never used an Apple computer) about any Mac, i always get very pleasent comments, and i can reassure you that they dont hate me for using a mac(theyre just Jealous)!
and about the french fries thing.. if u take a look at this site, ull find out that Apple products and their decisions are allways being critisized. the advantages & disadvantages of any new product are always mentioned. eg. Keynote; when keynote came out some ppl where positive bout it, many said that it wont be as good as Powerpoint and that i cant replace it... i dont think that eating it up like french fries..
ohhhh and by the way, IM GLAD that ppl like YOU switch back to PCs (or just never switch) ... because in the end, its ppl like you who eat it up like french fries. and microsoft is the one serving them to you.
hulkaros
The Incredible...
...people like us to be happy that "switchers" like you switch back to your Dark Side path...
Good for you! Oh... Could you do us a favor... If you really switched back to the Wintel Heaven of Computing could you really stay there instead of paying us visits here... And if you cannot stay away of the stupid Mac people around could at least next time be more polite? If you cannot behave normal I can relate to that: You are coming from the Wintel world aka Dark Side and I forgive you...
Cellfish? Peace and love man! We love you! You AND the Dark Side... We the stupid Mac fanatics with our sick minds love you... ::love::
::love:: ::love:: ::love:: ::love::
Spread the ::love:: Cellfish!
binaryDigit
Registered
Well i think that once you get beyond the ranting, that cellfish does have a point. His point is that there is a mindset that exists on this site that makes some folks here very narrow minded when it comes to the pc world in general and Micro$oft in particular. It isn't a simple feeling that their chosen platform is superior, it's a smugness that is more borne out of ignorance (not a "stupid" ignorance, more of a "not being aware, and not wanting to" ignorance).
What's funny is that you'd think that Mac folk would be more in tuned with simply judging a platform through propaganda and mob mentality, but I guess being on the receiving end has a tendency to make you unaware when you are on the giving end.
Those who are not so one sided in their opinions can easily be frustrated. When you look at the hardware on a Mac today, what do you see? PCI, AGP, USB, IDE, DDR all of which appeared on pc's first. On a modern Mac, other than the MB chipsets and firewire, there isn't an Apple innovated part, it's no different than a PC. Appearance/packaging is really the one area that Apple has shown true innovation.
So the fact that Apple popularized the translucent skin is what people focus on when they see a pc with similar styling, not the fact that on the inside, the roles are almost reversed.
As for switching back, well, I surely wouldn't base any descision on the users on this board (or any others for that matter). If the machine does what you need and you're happy using it, then use it. That's why I use both (and some others).
BTW, Apple has long ago released programs that seemingly do nothing but lock up your computer (multi-finder is the first one I can think of), and lord knows this was a common occurance pre OSX days (just ask my wife)
What's funny is that you'd think that Mac folk would be more in tuned with simply judging a platform through propaganda and mob mentality, but I guess being on the receiving end has a tendency to make you unaware when you are on the giving end.
Those who are not so one sided in their opinions can easily be frustrated. When you look at the hardware on a Mac today, what do you see? PCI, AGP, USB, IDE, DDR all of which appeared on pc's first. On a modern Mac, other than the MB chipsets and firewire, there isn't an Apple innovated part, it's no different than a PC. Appearance/packaging is really the one area that Apple has shown true innovation.
So the fact that Apple popularized the translucent skin is what people focus on when they see a pc with similar styling, not the fact that on the inside, the roles are almost reversed.
As for switching back, well, I surely wouldn't base any descision on the users on this board (or any others for that matter). If the machine does what you need and you're happy using it, then use it. That's why I use both (and some others).
BTW, Apple has long ago released programs that seemingly do nothing but lock up your computer (multi-finder is the first one I can think of), and lord knows this was a common occurance pre OSX days (just ask my wife)
hulkaros
The Incredible...
Originally posted by binaryDigit
Well i think that once you get beyond the ranting, that cellfish does have a point. His point is that there is a mindset that exists on this site that makes some folks here very narrow minded when it comes to the pc world in general and Micro$oft in particular. It isn't a simple feeling that their chosen platform is superior, it's a smugness that is more borne out of ignorance (not a "stupid" ignorance, more of a "not being aware, and not wanting to" ignorance).
What's funny is that you'd think that Mac folk would be more in tuned with simply judging a platform through propaganda and mob mentality, but I guess being on the receiving end has a tendency to make you unaware when you are on the giving end.
Those who are not so one sided in their opinions can easily be frustrated. When you look at the hardware on a Mac today, what do you see? PCI, AGP, USB, IDE, DDR all of which appeared on pc's first. On a modern Mac, other than the MB chipsets and firewire, there isn't an Apple innovated part, it's no different than a PC. Appearance/packaging is really the one area that Apple has shown true innovation.
So the fact that Apple popularized the translucent skin is what people focus on when they see a pc with similar styling, not the fact that on the inside, the roles are almost reversed.
As for switching back, well, I surely wouldn't base any descision on the users on this board (or any others for that matter). If the machine does what you need and you're happy using it, then use it. That's why I use both (and some others).
BTW, Apple has long ago released programs that seemingly do nothing but lock up your computer (multi-finder is the first one I can think of), and lord knows this was a common occurance pre OSX days (just ask my wife)
Yeah... I bet that you can find Firewire2, Airport Extreme, Bluetooth, similar to iLife apps, PCI 64 bits, high quality boxes (not just design), Gigabit ethernet, DVI/ADC output or if you prefer double monitor support, Rendezvous, 2d/3d GUI, really THAT easy networking with UNIX, MACs, LINUX, WINDOWS, etc. OSes, DVD playback support, AAC & MP3 support,
AND MANY OTHER Apple Mac + OS X things
in the Dark Side Joe computers...
Oh, and USB lives at Wintels thanks to iMac 97...
But then again, Wintel rules and they are the best... They will really innovate when they will come out with Windows 2005 and Athens PCs... You know... You will minimize an app and you will be able to view the minimized contents real time... Innovation alright...
Wintel rules! Apple never did anything for computers in general... Never does... Only Wintel... Long live the Wintel... Praise the Wintel and BinaryDigit for letting us know how truly Wintel innovates and Apple just copies from them...
Oh, and yes we are narrow minded and stupid and ignorant and...
Wintel is the best... Wintel rulez!
tsizKEIK
its all about HOUSE music
dear binarydigit ,
in comparison to other ppl on this forum, my knowldedge on computers is very very limited. thats one reason why i liked the mac. its easy to use!!! its appearance is great and its packaging is user friendly. when i added extra RAM to my mac all i had to do is pull a button so that the case opens and just insert it in the slot (which was very easy to locate). when i tried to do that on my PC some years ago it was much harder. i opened the box and it was like a jungle in there (like all PC boxes (i think)) and i didnt know where to put the damn RAM . apart from that i was told that i would have to make some changes through the BIOS, which seemed like a bad idea since i had never been through this process before(and was afraid that id mess things up). thats why the macs packaging is a great advantage to inexperienced users like me!!!
but the OS is an even greater advantage to me. when i used windows i had many PROBLEMS and queries, and id have to ask my cousins for help all the time. with the mac i have fewer queries, and..... there are NO PROBLEMS anymore. yuuupiii!!!
for a company that is only around 4% of the global market... i think im very satisfied with Apples hardware innovations. if they had the capital that Microsoft has, in order to invest into new serious technologies (and not toilet PCs), im sure we would have seen more amazing things.
but even so.. i get to have AAC on my firewire iPOD and iTunes on my computer!!! combine all of these and u can get fast and portable music in your mp3 player with great ease (thanx to iTunes).... Where is MICROSOFTS innovative mp3 player ???
im not a PRO user. im learning more day by day. and with the mac its easy to learn more because no problems get in ur way(eg blue screens).
for YOU, the mac might not be satisfying on its own, the PC might be more advanced in other areas, and as a result you might have to use both at the same time. i dont believe thats a bad thing, but I can get everything done with my mac and in a faster/easier/less stressful way
i dont know if ull bother reading my post! if u do, u might still believe that Apple has only truely innovated in appearance/packaging. they might have copied many things from pcs, but at the end of the day, even if they did, they didnt just copy it, they improved it. and thats why im writing to you through a Mac at this instant
in comparison to other ppl on this forum, my knowldedge on computers is very very limited. thats one reason why i liked the mac. its easy to use!!! its appearance is great and its packaging is user friendly. when i added extra RAM to my mac all i had to do is pull a button so that the case opens and just insert it in the slot (which was very easy to locate). when i tried to do that on my PC some years ago it was much harder. i opened the box and it was like a jungle in there (like all PC boxes (i think)) and i didnt know where to put the damn RAM . apart from that i was told that i would have to make some changes through the BIOS, which seemed like a bad idea since i had never been through this process before(and was afraid that id mess things up). thats why the macs packaging is a great advantage to inexperienced users like me!!!
but the OS is an even greater advantage to me. when i used windows i had many PROBLEMS and queries, and id have to ask my cousins for help all the time. with the mac i have fewer queries, and..... there are NO PROBLEMS anymore. yuuupiii!!!
for a company that is only around 4% of the global market... i think im very satisfied with Apples hardware innovations. if they had the capital that Microsoft has, in order to invest into new serious technologies (and not toilet PCs), im sure we would have seen more amazing things.
but even so.. i get to have AAC on my firewire iPOD and iTunes on my computer!!! combine all of these and u can get fast and portable music in your mp3 player with great ease (thanx to iTunes).... Where is MICROSOFTS innovative mp3 player ???
im not a PRO user. im learning more day by day. and with the mac its easy to learn more because no problems get in ur way(eg blue screens).
for YOU, the mac might not be satisfying on its own, the PC might be more advanced in other areas, and as a result you might have to use both at the same time. i dont believe thats a bad thing, but I can get everything done with my mac and in a faster/easier/less stressful way
i dont know if ull bother reading my post! if u do, u might still believe that Apple has only truely innovated in appearance/packaging. they might have copied many things from pcs, but at the end of the day, even if they did, they didnt just copy it, they improved it. and thats why im writing to you through a Mac at this instant
binaryDigit
Registered
Originally posted by hulkaros
Yeah... I bet that you can find Firewire2, Airport Extreme, Bluetooth, similar to iLife apps, PCI 64 bits, high quality boxes (not just design), Gigabit ethernet, DVI/ADC output or if you prefer double monitor support, Rendezvous, 2d/3d GUI, really THAT easy networking with UNIX, MACs, LINUX, WINDOWS, etc. OSes, DVD playback support, AAC & MP3 support,
Airport Extreme - Just another name for 802.11g which pc's support (and Linksys was first out of the gate). Though reports are that AE is much easier to deal with than Linksys.
PCI 64bits - YUP, I have a server that is at least three years old that has them (it uses Intel PIII 500mhz to give you an idea of it's age).
Gigabit ethernet - it's been availble on the larger servers, but no real mainstream PC manuf. ships it (that I know of).
DVI - It's been available ever since DVI was created. Obviously ADC wouldn't be supported. I've used dual monitors since NT4 time frame (though only a small subset of video cards supported it back then, I used the Matrox).
Easy networking - Settings/Network/TCPIP set it to dhcp, that's it. Been that way since NT3.51 (don't know about Win9x/ME)
Interop with Unices/Mac - Well considering that pretty much everyone supports Samba (*nix and OSX), it's not really a fair question. And NT has had NFS support for a while (since NT3.51 that I know of), though it does kinda suck (at least it did back in the 3.51/4 days, haven't had to use it since, Samba good
DVD Playback - Works perfect on Win2K and I personally don't know anyone who has had any problems (though I know that early adopters went through a lot of pain, but that's old news).
MP3 - WinAmp has been around forever.
Your other points do fall into the category of the Mac having a clear advantage/first to market.
Oh, and USB lives at Wintels thanks to iMac 97...
Nope, USB was availble on PC's (and I mean on motherboards, not just add on cards) waaaay before the iMac. It went through a lot of teething pains in the early days, and even after things got ironed out, there weren't very many peripherals available. What the iMac DID do was to create a market for these peripherals and accelerated the adoption of usb.
...You will minimize an app and you will be able to view the minimized contents real time... Innovation alright...
Actually OS/2 3.0 had the ability to do this over 10 years ago! It was really cool, there was even an api for it so you could have the icon display whatever you wanted, not just the contents of the parent window.
Wintel rules! Apple never did anything for computers in general... Never does... Only Wintel... Long live the Wintel... Praise the Wintel and BinaryDigit for letting us know how truly Wintel innovates and Apple just copies from them...
That's funny. I say that PC's do innovate, and your response is this
This paragraph proves the ignorance of Mac users. While Firewire 2 is not on PC's (not that anyone really cares), Airport Extreme is just 802.11g which first appeared on the PC, Bluetooth as well first on PC, iLife nobody cares, PCI 64 will be on the PC first, Gigabit Ethernet was PC first, DVI output is practically standard now on the PC on top of the VGA output, double-monitor support has existed on the PC since the Matrox G450 was released in 1999, 2D/3D gui is nonexistant on the Mac (3d acceleration does not make OS X a 3D OS and 3D acceleration is not necessary for Windows considering how fast it is). To be completely honest about your last comment, I find networking WAY easier on the PC than on the Mac.
Let's think a bit. How will a Microsoft portable music player improve the quality of the OS? Why do MAc users constantly support the 'quality' of OS X by mentioning things that aren't even included in it? the iPod is an OPTION and it is an option that is available for Windows as well. In fact, you can use a great variety of MP3 players that cost less than the iPod and be sure that it'll work properly with Windows. You can't be that sure with OS X. If you want an MP3 player that'll work fine in OS X, don't try to save money, just go to Apple's product. It's fun to have Big Brother Jobs force me down to one choice.
binaryDigit
Registered
Yes, I did take the time to read your post
I just want to make it clear (I'm just clarifiying here, I don't want it to sound like I'm upset). Never did I say that Apple was not innovative. Never did I say that Apples didn't do many things better than Wintel. Never did I say that Wintel was "better" than Apple. Reread my posts, I NEVER make these statements.
I merely said that Apple also borrows many things from the Wintel side. That there is certainly innovation going on on both sides of the fence. My post merely responds to those who would claim that it is ONLY coming from the Apple side.
I'm sure that for you the Mac is the superior solution. As well, I know that my usage pattern is a lot different because of my level of knowledge vs other people. But it is my experience, specifically with both Apple and Wintel boxes that makes me get a bit riled up when people take such a one sided (and usually incorrect) view of the computing world.
The Mac is a wonderful system, I'm typing this now on my Pismo. I have more Macs in my house than most people have ever had, or will have. But I also use PC's and can see the uses for it. And I've been around long enough to have seen the good and bad sides of both platforms. So by defending the PC, I am not slamming the Mac. I know that's how many people like to read it, but that's the sad part. That's like having someone rave about the superior aerodynamics of the Ferrari formula 1 car, then I say "did you know that Lotus ushered in the modern era of ground effects" and the reply suddenly being "why do you hate Ferrari, despite what you say, they are innovative". Hey, never said they weren't, just trying to bring some history, knowledge, and perspective.
Anyway, i'm sure this entire thread will get moved since it's obviously gotten way beyond it's original topic. So, are Apples excellent computers that are showcases for some excellent design and engineering, yup, without a doubt. Does the current Mac still owe a lot of what it is to the Wintel world, yup. Is there innovation going on in the Wintel camp, yup. Is there some "borrowing" going on in the Wintel camp, yup. Is the Mac the end all be all of computing, nope. Are Wintels the end all be all of computing, nope.
binaryDigit
Registered
Just want to point out that dual monitor support has been around since way before the G450. I was doing dual monitors on my Millenium I's. The G450 was the first mass produced card that allowed you to go dual head with a single card. The old way was to simply have two cards. It still worked perfectly though (well, not really "perfectly" as the windowing behaiour was/is weird, at least in my book, but it worked).
Oh and PCI64 is very common on many server/highend workstation PC's. As well as 66mhz PCI. The Intel server that I have has 6 64bit/66mhz hot swappable PCI slots. Not that it really matters as other than SCSI cards and gigabit ethernet cards, I don't know of any other 64bit PCI cards (or anything that would truly benefit, since the only other candidate is graphics and that has become the domain of AGP).
And I think his gigabit comment has more teeth in that Apple has made gigabit "standard" on their tower machines. AFAIK, no other manuf. is doing this on anything but their highest end boxes. So they do have a leg up, I'd love to have gigabit running at home, though the cost of gigabit hubs is way too high right now. BTW, I do have two gigabit PCI cards, it actually swamps one of my test mule PC's, it's only an Athlon 700 and it actually is the limiting factor when it's being fed by a much faster machine, very sweet. But like I said, until the availability of cheaper hubs/switches, it's not really practical for me (and many businesses, who are perfectly happy with 100Mb).
This is the problem with these silly arguments. erroneous information.
While G and Bluetooth hardware may have been available from 3rd party vendors earlier than that which was integrated on the Mac... did you ever try and use either on the PC? Bluetooth in particular was a joke.
Oh, and there are quite a few companies very interested FW2. Particularly in the video industry... but for a lot of other uses.
Dual monitor support has been available on the mac since... well the SE (80's). In fact the macs back then supported up to 6 monitors. You just plug in another card. They don't even have to be from the same manufacturer. Ever try that on Windows?
It is pretty obvious that you don't understand half of the points you have made.
OSX is a 3D OS. Each element is a layer in OGL. MS has said this will be a part of Longhorn, but it is currently not implemented.
I liked your comment about networking. It made me laugh. I have 2 XP machines here that won't see each other, well... sometimes they decide to work. The macs on the other hand see each other as well as my PCs. Oh and GB ethernet was also a Mac first.
If you want to verify any of this I suggest going to PC magazine's website and looking it up. Even the PC mags gush over Apple's innovation and they seem pretty impressed with what Apple has had to offer these past couple of years.