Jaguar - Mac OS X 10.2

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Why not go ahead and discuss a little what's missing in Mac OS 10.1.x? And I don't mean this or that app is not yet carbonated. I mean the OS itself.

Those features I would like added:

- Better optimisation for portables (Energy saver)
- Better graphics drivers (More speed is still possible)
- Spring open folders (like in OS 9, but also and mostly in Column view)
- Free appearance variants (a bit like in OS X Server 1.x, not only Aqua & Graphite)
- Better Dock (I want to be able to totally shut down the Dock in Prefs)
- Much better Dock (I want to be able to shut down all FX separately)
- Finder must be replacable Backdrop App (Setting in Prefs, let Free-/Shareware devs make better/different alternatives)
- Multiple Desktops (You've got pro users, Apple!)

Generally, I like Mac OS X to be simple for consumers, but I want the OS to be flexible for pros.

Please try to keep your answers on track. OS related. Let's talk what Apple should do, not what third party software developers should do. For example I don't think that Apple should provide a themes engine. Someone like the guys who did Kaleidoscope could do that.
 

ulrik

Registered
never used linux, eh? Multiple desktops is a dream! It's nearly like having four monitors. I am running on a Cinema display, and I have to hide all my admin/diagnose apps because they take up space on the screen. With multiple desktops, I could, for example, stick all my terminal, console, netinfo, network utility, sysprefs and other windows on one desktop. At the same time, I could have one "browser" desktop with the windows of different browsers, while on a third desktop I am working in GoLive and I switch between them to check how it looks in the different browsers. I could stick windows like render views from Cinema on another Desktop...maybe Apple could even do it so that you can "turn" to another desktop when your mouse is long enough on one edge of the screen...multiple desktops is such a great thing, and it can't be that hard to implement...
 

KKJ

Registered
Should the dock follow you when you change desktop, stay in the "main" desktop or should there be a seperate dock for each desktop?

By the way, spring-loading folders are usefull. I sure hope they appear in X.
 

Mac Write

MacWrite.com
I would like to see:

•Video out (mirring etc) for RCA out for the people with personality cards
•Startup and Shutdown in the Energy control panel
•When clock launches on login for it to keep it's preferences (not defaulting back to the dock)
•More optimazation for better preformance
•MySQL included
•Dividers for the dock so u can seperate Application types etc
•select which user group has promission to access a file in the Get Info
•In the User CP be able to select which user groups a user is assigned to (good for only allowing parents in a Family access to certain files)
•built in Guest account with super restricted access
•change file/folder owner via a Authentication lock in the Get Info


I will add to the list when I think of some other things
 

brachiator

Registered
I agree with all of the above, and would add multiple login sessions. Administrators, at least, should be able to run multiple logins -- say one admin and one root session...

There should be some sort of secure switching, so that all the sessions could be running at once, but to switch between sessions you'd have to enter a password -- i.e., a mini-login, but the session would already be running so it would be instantaneous access.

That way I could run, say, my primary "admin" session, a root session for monkeying around with otherwise restricted files, and a super-restricted "guest" session as described in an earlier post, for friends who dropped by and wanted to check their emails (without having access to my documents, etc).

If I had kids this would be both essential and convenient!

Oh yeah -- speed, speed, speed! ;-) Support for rendering through the video card on my Lombard 333 would be nice.

I agree that the theme stuff is probably better handled through 3d parties -- these are labors of love by the themers, and it is not necessary for apple to duplicate it... hell, Metamorph X is rumored to become a preference panel by v. 4.0! BUT, Apple could and should make it easier on themers by cleaning up, centralizing, and simplifying the distribution of appearance resources in the OS. From what I hear, one of the problems in theming is that there are a number of elements strewn all over the place, and especially when it comes to the appearances of individual apps.

BTW -- is there any intention to send the contents of this thread to Apple? Or is it up to all of us individually?

;)
 

kcmac

Registered
I would mainly just like to see an emphasis in the early updates towards those of us that know very little about unix. Concentrate on making the OS easier and faster.

For a lot of us, OS X is still a little spooky. Hard to back up, what happens when you have a problem, etc.

I have been using OS X every day since I got my iBook this summer. (I ordered at the same time it was announced.) This is my work machine. I have had some very gut wrenching moments I can assure you. But I love OS X. The only time I had a hard crash was because I renamed my Application folders. Got that start up kernal panic thing. No one on the boards really knew what to tell me except to make sure I reported back with what eventually happened.

The more comfortable Apple can make it to us long time Apple users that aren't IT minded, (and don't want to be) the better.
 

Snyper M

Registered
Among all the other things already mentioned...

~Color coding of folders? I really liked this feature, made everytihng so easy to organize. THey could possibly have a little RGB slider for choosing whatever shade you want even. I'm sure this is possible.

~Being able to drag-n-drop files into folders aliased on the dock. i'm not sure if you guys consider this spring loaded folders, but if not..this would also be welcome.

~Password protected folders. I don't want to have to quit applications and log into my admin account to access certain folders. I mentioned this in previous post as well.

~Maybe it's just me but I'm not seeing the option that allows programs to access the keychain without asking for a password, yet still making you put in a password to access it yourself. It's kind of a pain to type in my password for entourage/mail/eudora/whatever to check my mail. But I can't leave the keychain open.

~Always room for speed imporvements...especially with Quicktime.

~A graphical samba browser i.e. Network Neighborhood ala PCs *shudder*

~Maybe some more XP ish stuff they have and we don't for one reason or another. I dare say their multiple user system is interesting, though there are other areas I'd liek to see worked on before this gimmick of logging out but running programs in the background etc.

I'm sure I'll think of others...but as of right now i'm really more than satisfied with OSX.1. We've got great things in store for us dammit.:cool:
 

mindbend

Registered
OS X wish list

Labels—This much underused feaure of OS 9 is critical to organizing files for me. Also, team development is aided by labels (e.g. Orange="Finished")

Ability to see info totals when selecting multiple items in Column view—currently have to launch Get info window.

Show how many items in a folder when Get Info window shown—currently shows Size, but not quantity.

Pro level PDF support—Print to PDF good for proofing, but not necessarily for press ready output.

Native font management—auto-activation and font grouping via folders would be awesome. Currently fonts can't be in subdirectories to be recognized. Also, font locations are a confusing mess.

Easier printing as PDF, still kind of clumsy. Especially if you don't have a Postscript printer, you have to create a virtual printer, then choose output options:print as PDF...very clumsy. Just somehow let me "Save as PDF" from any application.

Can't edit print center printer options without deleting and recreating.

Ability to retain hyperlinks in PDFs "printed" from web pages (all part of that "Save as PDF" thing.

System-wide single keystroke reception in dialogs ("D" for Don't Save, "S" for Save, etc.)—inconsistent now.

Speed, speed, speed

Command+W sometimes closes just the window, not the whole App and vice versa, inconsistent (e.g. Command+W Quits "Key Caps" but not "CPU Monitor", huh?)

USB printer sharing over a network—tres cool in 9

Springloaded folders

Option+drag to relocate dock a la control strip in 9

System level keyboard shortcut programming for launching apps
 

simX

Unofficial Mac Genius
I'd just like to point out a few things that are already in OS X, or some things that would be impractical:

¥ Shift-click on the divider of the dock, and then you can drag it to relocate it to the left or the right of the screen.

¥ Holding down the mouse is already an alternative to ctrl-click in the dock, anyway. It might be kind of clumsy in the Finder, but I think not many people would use it, given how many people are complaining about the length of time it takes for a click-hold to register the menu in the dock.

¥ Get info windows DO show totals, both in combined size of the selected objects, and in the amount of items selected. Something that might be confusing you is that, contrary to the Classic Mac OS, selections inside a window are preserved when switching windows, but they aren't registered as "active" selections unless the window is active. So therefore (and you can try this out), you can select a folder inside one partition, and switch to another folder on another partition and select two objects and get info on them -- the get info window will show the info for those last two objects, not including the original selection, even though it still is visually selected.

-- My addition to the wish list would be a tabbed dock. Therefore, I can have a tab for applications, one for documents, one for minimized windows, and then maybe a combined one where I can pick and choose between all the elements.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Originally posted by simX
My addition to the wish list would be a tabbed dock. Therefore, I can have a tab for applications, one for documents, one for minimized windows, and then maybe a combined one where I can pick and choose between all the elements.
Yes, the Dock could use more features. But again I would make that optional, so that people who have only five to ten icons in the Dock can keep it the way it is.

It'd be a bit more like DragThing - and that's why I want the Dock to be replacable by a third party utility. Apple doesn't have to fill the Dock with features that some people want and others don't. But an API for a Dock replacement would be nice. But remember that such launchers would not only have to replace the launching function - but also the minimized windows.

• One must be able to replace Dock with alternatives
• One must be able to replace Finder with alternatives

And I'd like to be able to do that not through hacks but through an API. And of course it would have to be user-centric, not systemwide (which doesn't allow the Dock.app to be erased or renamed so it can't be restarted, what would be the hack-type I meant).
 

Dekatophil

Registered
What I'm really missing is support for right-to-left scripts (like Arabic, Hebrew etc.). This needs to be adressed soon. Lots of linguists are using Apple computers+SW. They'd all be very thankful for it. Actually, Apple used to be a forrunner in this, but now has to catch up with e.g. Win XP.
 

jimr

McInstigator
Originally posted by Jaguar - Mac OS X 10.2

Why not go ahead and discuss a little what's missing in Mac OS 10.1.x? And I don't mean this or that app is not yet carbonated. I mean the OS itself.
I am having a problem... everytime I use a carbonated app I have to XP

but seriously...
"Want apple to do this or that...." Apple will continue to do...that is clear, and the things they do ... not so bad.... in fact, spectacular.

Try to remember, that unlike a certain Overgrown monopoly they leve some things to third party developers. What's more, that is not some remote organization with a big budget to buy special hardware and software waving dead chickens around and drinking goats blood on the full moon... Hey that's you... that's me... Why? Because they give the Developer tools away for free.

The documents are sitting ther inside your machine....

you can go out and download a plethora of basic applications and code samples for free.

Yeah...yeah.. Unix is spooky, this don't operate like a Mac.... Don't you see this is where things have been going? High powered machinery sitting in front of you... better learn how to use it.

WAHHHH!!!! I cut off my toes with the Chainsaw ...shit happens... but I bet you never do that juggling trick again...


If you want to make a contribution do something.... speculating on these forums and whining about everything that is not ...just so... That will make XP your worst nightmare... The next business default...

Microsoft will earn for every mouse click and every keystroke you make ... and every time you pull out your "Digital wallet" ..."Ching!" More money in their pockets.

If you wake up every day and think what can I do to make my Mac better....

A whole community will benefit...Unix users and Mac GUI users... and we stay free.

Otherwise, start arranging your finances. Your Kids will still be paying microsoft when you are dead......

So write down your wish list here ...but don't wait for someone else to do it...

Microsoft is reading these posts
They have been watching this experiment for years..... They watch, they imitate, they never innovate, just skim all the great ideas. Especially the ones that people indicate they are willing to wait for. They are the masters of making you wait for the next great release.

So, make a TODO list, get your friends involved, get people excited, then don't forget to DOIT.....

[/end_preach]
 

scruffy

Notorious Olive Counter
  • Fix for the braindead bug (introduced in 10.1) that stops, among other things, pine, from working - when a child process exits, parent process receives SIGBUS (bus error, ie. you just crashed, please die now) instead of SIGCHILD (ie. child process exited successfully, carry on. )
  • Working printer sharing - USB printer sharing, LPD client that works, ideally LPD server printing to USB printers...
  • Finder integration of more sorts of file sharing - NFS, Samba and AFP work now, I believe - FTP, and SFTP should be added. Maybe more types, that's just all I would use right now.
  • Control panel for the included firewall and NATD. Yes, Brickwall is a great app, but it's developed by someone outside Apple, so an Apple update might clobber it at any time. Not to mention, there's no excuse for not including a simple front-end to the firewall and connection sharing. Windows has this nice little "Internet connection sharing" control panel - M$, so it doesn't work worth a darn, but it's easy in theory...
  • Working floppy drives in older G3s. Not that it will happen, but it's darned inconvenient to have a bunch of data on floppies that you just can't get at.
  • And the biggy, the one we all know won't happen, a redesign of NetInfo, so that regular users can't get root passwords without at least a little hacking.
 

Snyper M

Registered
Also i just remembered this when some idiot pc user zoomed one of my windows cuz they're big on maximizing things for some reason...

In any case, for those rare occasions when that lil resize tab is stuck down in the corner , especially under the dock where it's virtually impossible to use; i would liek to see the option to resize windows fomr any corner or side ala windoze. Granted htis may be too ocmplicated for some lower level users but having an option for this could be greatly appreciated.

Alsi i was thinking about that hue slider i mentioned for folders to let you color code them whatever. Why not apple this srt of thing to oall aqua elements? that would rock. Could you imagine graident filled aqau buttons maybe even? whoa..yeah wishful thinking I know

also the keychain thing is really pissing me off if i lock it but allow certian applications to view it, i shouldn't have to unlock the keychain...
 

mindbend

Registered
simX wrote this in response to some of my requests. I'll respond in bold due to laziness and lack of knowledge of how to do it better:

I'd just like to point out a few things that are already in OS X, or some things that would be impractical:

¥ Shift-click on the divider of the dock, and then you can drag it to relocate it to the left or the right of the screen.

YES, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. THANKS FOR THE TIP.

¥ Holding down the mouse is already an alternative to ctrl-click in the dock, anyway. It might be kind of clumsy in the Finder, but I think not many people would use it, given how many people are complaining about the length of time it takes for a click-hold to register the menu in the dock.

AND WHAT'S WITH IT TAKING SO LONG TO ENTER EDIT MODE FOR RENAMING FILE NAMES? IS THIS ADJUSTABLE?

¥ Get info windows DO show totals, both in combined size of the selected objects, and in the amount of items selected. Something that might be confusing you is that, contrary to the Classic Mac OS, selections inside a window are preserved when switching windows, but they aren't registered as "active" selections unless the window is active. So therefore (and you can try this out), you can select a folder inside one partition, and switch to another folder on another partition and select two objects and get info on them -- the get info window will show the info for those last two objects, not including the original selection, even though it still is visually selected.

PERHAPS I DIDN'T CLARIFY MYSELF. GET INFO DOES INDEED SHOW HOW MANY "FOLDERS" ARE SELECTED, BUT NOT HOW MANY ITEMS WITHIN THOSE FOLDERS. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SELECT THREE FOLDERS, GET INFO, AND TELL HOW MANY ITEMS ARE IN THOSE FOLDERS AS A TOTAL. SEEMS EASY ENOUGH. ALSO, IN COLUMN VIEW (MY FAV) THE FAR RIGHT "SUMMARY" PANEL DISAPPEARS WHEN YOU SELECT MULTIPLE ITEMS. WHY? JUST SHOW CUMULATIVE INFO. IF I AM WRONG ON ANY OF THIS, PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN SEE SAID INFO. THANKS.
 

billybob

Registered
overall i'm very pleased with osx, especially after 10.1 came out. there's only 3 things that I think OSX could really use:

1. virtual desktops. I cannot elaborate enough on how useful these are. Not to everyone, obviously, but "pro" users, and the "UNIX crowd" that OSX kind of appeals to, would certainly appreciate it. Nearly anyone coming from a UNIX background will be severely disapointed, since virtual desktops exist for so many different flavors of UNIX. They are so useful if you have more than 2-3 apps open at a time... especially if you do any sort of development (programming, or web stuff).

2. windowshade. I know a third party utility came out, and I actually paid for it (only 7 bucks), and it is very nice. But it would be nice to see apple implement this into the OS. I mean, what a trivial feature. And it's so useful. Not to everyone, of course... but if i dont have virtual desktops, i NEED windowshade. i HATE having to minimize stuff to the dock. its a total waste of time.

3. speaking of the dock... let me customize it, god damnit! the talk that's been talked many times before of multipe docks... well, that would be a nice addition. I would only need two.. one for apps, one for windows. it would also be nice to have the option of having the dock span the entire horizontal or vertical distance of the screen, so that things dont move around all the time. so if your dock was on the bottom.. apps would be justified left, windows and the trash would be justified right. or however the hell you want it, because we should be able to CUSTOMIZE it!!

anyway.. other than those, OSX is doing me very nice. :)
 

simX

Unofficial Mac Genius
OK, mindbend, one tip for the boards. Use open-square bracket, capital B, then close-square bracket for bold. Then you stop bold by doing that with /B in the middle. So it looks like this:

(B) textyouwantboldhereblahblahblah (/B)

Only when you do it for real, you use square brackets instead of parentheses. I couldn't do it because otherwise it would put that text in bold and you wouldn't see what I'm talking about. :p If you want to quote me, you can just press the 'Quote' button in the window that says my response, and then the board will automatically insert the code that makes it so that I know what you're referring to.

The way you did it made it look like you were yelling at me. ;)

Anyway, as per your responses:

AND WHAT'S WITH IT TAKING SO LONG TO ENTER EDIT MODE FOR RENAMING FILE NAMES? IS THIS ADJUSTABLE?
Yeah, that's annoying too. It's not adjustable -- maybe if someone finds a UNIX hack for it, though. That would be awesome. The other thing that really annoys me is that in a lot of programs, including the Finder, the cursor is HIDDEN while moving around in the filename as opposed to always visible, so the effect is that you can't see where the cursor is going to end up. Very annoying.

PERHAPS I DIDN'T CLARIFY MYSELF. GET INFO DOES INDEED SHOW HOW MANY "FOLDERS" ARE SELECTED, BUT NOT HOW MANY ITEMS WITHIN THOSE FOLDERS. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SELECT THREE FOLDERS, GET INFO, AND TELL HOW MANY ITEMS ARE IN THOSE FOLDERS AS A TOTAL. SEEMS EASY ENOUGH. ALSO, IN COLUMN VIEW (MY FAV) THE FAR RIGHT "SUMMARY" PANEL DISAPPEARS WHEN YOU SELECT MULTIPLE ITEMS. WHY? JUST SHOW CUMULATIVE INFO. IF I AM WRONG ON ANY OF THIS, PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN SEE SAID INFO. THANKS.
Ah. I see what you mean. Yes, that information doesn't show up, unfortunately. And you are totally correct about the column view non-feature.

Apple still has a long way to perfecting the GUI in Mac OS X, but it's done an awesome job of taming UNIX -- down to the very point of not letting a normal user see ANY command line if (s)he doesn't want to... even startup shows not a LINE of UNIX! That's very impressive. Just make sure that when you post here, you also send a feedback letter to Apple at www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ . That way Apple knows exactly what you want.
 

simX

Unofficial Mac Genius
I just posted, and saw someone else posted right before me that I have something to say about.

billybob: The dock CAN be pinned to one end of the screen. It's a hidden feature. To activate it, you just need to download TinkerTool, which is freeware, and which you can get from www.versiontracker.com/macosx . It's a preference pane, which is very handy too, and it has some other nice features.

When you download it and install it (there should be a folder called PreferencePanes somewhere in the Library of your user folder or of the System folder), just open your System Preferences application, and click on "TinkerTool" in the "Other" category. Then in the "Desktop" pane that automatically pops up, change the setting of the 'Placement' popup to 'Start Position' or 'End Position'... that way your dock will be pinned to one side. And to boot, if you like, you can even position your dock at the TOP of your screen, like it slides out from under the menubar. That's kinda cool, and would actually COMPLY with the "piece of paper" GUI metaphor.

Just wanted to let you know.
 
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