Losing faith in Apple?
- Thread starter Gedankenspiel
- Start date
toast
Gone !
I just realized that, if you take all the freedom-of-expression stuff out of this thread, it's one of the most interesting threads I ever read here about the Apple company.
BUT
The freedom of speech discussion is ALSO very interesting ! I've been working on the topic a lot, I study politics in my country (France). What I can recommend to you all is to start a thread somewhere else if you are yearning for a chat about democracy, freedoms, civil liberties and self expression. MacLuv tried it recently.
I like your answeer to my "Amen, too." very much, ksv
. I've aalso studied anarchy a lot you know !
BUT
The freedom of speech discussion is ALSO very interesting ! I've been working on the topic a lot, I study politics in my country (France). What I can recommend to you all is to start a thread somewhere else if you are yearning for a chat about democracy, freedoms, civil liberties and self expression. MacLuv tried it recently.
I like your answeer to my "Amen, too." very much, ksv
. I've aalso studied anarchy a lot you know !
solrac
Mac Ninja
MacLuv, although I completely disagree with your post that Ed deleted, and even claimed your idea of Apple selling pretty boxes with XP on them is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, that's my opinion and you are totally right about this forum and the censorship here.
If you start your own mac community which is not nazi-moderated, let me know.
If you start your own mac community which is not nazi-moderated, let me know.
toast
Gone !
The problem is not using the term but using it in an inappropriate way. I personnally find your own usage of the term very inappropriate. I think Ed will find it very inappropriate too !
I HOPE you will be moderated, though I'm not sure you will be.
Nothing against you personally, just against the use of the term "nazi". I think you can understand I'm against the use of the "nazi" qualificative each time there's a post moderated somewhere on Earth. There are LOADS of appropriate words for saying the situation was unfair, if you think it was. I don't know how to interpret your use of the word "nazi": provocative ? I hope so.
I HOPE you will be moderated, though I'm not sure you will be.
Nothing against you personally, just against the use of the term "nazi". I think you can understand I'm against the use of the "nazi" qualificative each time there's a post moderated somewhere on Earth. There are LOADS of appropriate words for saying the situation was unfair, if you think it was. I don't know how to interpret your use of the word "nazi": provocative ? I hope so.
toast
Gone !
Gedankenspiel
Registered
Hmmm... once again the topic got off track. Not sure how words like "democracy" or "Nazi" made it in here. In any event, I think the thread is one of the first that has allowed some concern around Apple to surface - without too much bashing and with many quality comments.
I take away from this that there is still much emotional attachment to Apple and the Mac platform - for the good and the bad - and I thank everyone for participating.
The reason why I chose to use the word "Faith" in the original subject is because it is a word most commonly associated with religion and lets face it - the way Apple enthusiasts believe in Apple and love their platform parallels religion. A following that few other companies can call their own.
However, the strong belief in something can reduce ones ability to think objectively. Apple has done a tremendous job at developing faithful followers. But maybe - just maybe it is time to open some eyes and give a shout of concern to Apple which we have done here.
I was hoping for some feedback regarding Apple's armtwisting with MacWorld Expo. Still have no idea why Apple is crying like a little baby and why they don't see it as a tremendous opportunity with hundreds of thousands of students living in Boston.
G
I take away from this that there is still much emotional attachment to Apple and the Mac platform - for the good and the bad - and I thank everyone for participating.
The reason why I chose to use the word "Faith" in the original subject is because it is a word most commonly associated with religion and lets face it - the way Apple enthusiasts believe in Apple and love their platform parallels religion. A following that few other companies can call their own.
However, the strong belief in something can reduce ones ability to think objectively. Apple has done a tremendous job at developing faithful followers. But maybe - just maybe it is time to open some eyes and give a shout of concern to Apple which we have done here.
I was hoping for some feedback regarding Apple's armtwisting with MacWorld Expo. Still have no idea why Apple is crying like a little baby and why they don't see it as a tremendous opportunity with hundreds of thousands of students living in Boston.
G
edX
mac shaman
ok - a few points:
1) you may be adults, but we also have children as members here. hence the concern over profanity. The idea is that this should be a family oriented site. A 12 year old should feel as comfortable participating as anyone else and without the example that curse words are acceptable.
2) please go elsewhere and start your own profanity allowed site if that is what you feel you must do. That would be much less trouble for us than having to ban you here to enforce the rules.
3) i regret not having grabbed screen shots of the 2 posts before i deleted them. but basically solrac's post had multiple instances of profanity and MacLuv's post had 2 instances of attacking Hulkaros. I don't let Hulk attack others and i won't let anyone attack him. Believe me, he is very good at attacking and defending himself if we allowed that kind of thing. like toast pointed out, you can freely participate in that manner on usenet. The idea is that this site should not be like usenet. It should be a place for friendly and civil discussion among mac owners.
4) the nazi thing - once more a good example of how language has different meanings to different people and we don't always communicate what we mean because others don't always understand words the same way we do. i'm leaving that post for the sake of discussion here. but be clear, calling anyone a nazi here will not be tolerated in the future. Slang or not, it is still an insult.
5)anyone who wants to discuss this further should start a new thread in site discussions. anymore discussion of moderation and rules, my actions, etc., will be deleted if posted to this thread. posts related to the actual topic of this thread are still quite welcome here.
1) you may be adults, but we also have children as members here. hence the concern over profanity. The idea is that this should be a family oriented site. A 12 year old should feel as comfortable participating as anyone else and without the example that curse words are acceptable.
2) please go elsewhere and start your own profanity allowed site if that is what you feel you must do. That would be much less trouble for us than having to ban you here to enforce the rules.
3) i regret not having grabbed screen shots of the 2 posts before i deleted them. but basically solrac's post had multiple instances of profanity and MacLuv's post had 2 instances of attacking Hulkaros. I don't let Hulk attack others and i won't let anyone attack him. Believe me, he is very good at attacking and defending himself if we allowed that kind of thing. like toast pointed out, you can freely participate in that manner on usenet. The idea is that this site should not be like usenet. It should be a place for friendly and civil discussion among mac owners.
4) the nazi thing - once more a good example of how language has different meanings to different people and we don't always communicate what we mean because others don't always understand words the same way we do. i'm leaving that post for the sake of discussion here. but be clear, calling anyone a nazi here will not be tolerated in the future. Slang or not, it is still an insult.
5)anyone who wants to discuss this further should start a new thread in site discussions. anymore discussion of moderation and rules, my actions, etc., will be deleted if posted to this thread. posts related to the actual topic of this thread are still quite welcome here.
plastic
McG4Dual
Should I order french fries as well to go with my Quarterpounder with Cheese? Hmmm....
Come on guys... somethings are like that... and it happens in EVERY BOARD around the world. Just take it easy and ignore the flamers, because soon enough their flamethrowers will run out of fuel. You only need to ignore them.
I am Asian, so I am commie right?
Come on guys... somethings are like that... and it happens in EVERY BOARD around the world. Just take it easy and ignore the flamers, because soon enough their flamethrowers will run out of fuel. You only need to ignore them.
I am Asian, so I am commie right?
I've gone through the whole thread which I left 2 days ago.
It's quite clear to me that as a community, mac people have an identity, a very strong one, and that they feel threatened now. In some way, bashing Apple is bashing the community which identifies itself with machines that are not only machines but something that made them HAPPY and FREE for years. Interestingly, I think I'm losing faith in the Mac community, which used to consider consumer's ethics as more important than faster-cheaper-increasing chips-boxes-ram etc. This doesn't mean I want a non-evolving computer environment. Of course I want improvements. But we really have to measure the non-technical consequences of switching to the Windows world: being part of a huge mass of PC users who depend solely on a M$ OS, on a SINGLE company owning 95% of marketshare. I'm sorry to say that I'm not ready to be eaten by Big Brother, or to put my freedom in the hands of Matrix$ Agents. By becoming UNIX and opening it's core to OPENsource, the Apple OS has given to every potential user a rock solid professional environment. I know nothing like the OS X environment that can manage so many file standards and formats. It's quite clear to me that I'm not ready to entrap myself faster and at low cost in a so called professional OS like XP.
It's quite clear to me that as a community, mac people have an identity, a very strong one, and that they feel threatened now. In some way, bashing Apple is bashing the community which identifies itself with machines that are not only machines but something that made them HAPPY and FREE for years. Interestingly, I think I'm losing faith in the Mac community, which used to consider consumer's ethics as more important than faster-cheaper-increasing chips-boxes-ram etc. This doesn't mean I want a non-evolving computer environment. Of course I want improvements. But we really have to measure the non-technical consequences of switching to the Windows world: being part of a huge mass of PC users who depend solely on a M$ OS, on a SINGLE company owning 95% of marketshare. I'm sorry to say that I'm not ready to be eaten by Big Brother, or to put my freedom in the hands of Matrix$ Agents. By becoming UNIX and opening it's core to OPENsource, the Apple OS has given to every potential user a rock solid professional environment. I know nothing like the OS X environment that can manage so many file standards and formats. It's quite clear to me that I'm not ready to entrap myself faster and at low cost in a so called professional OS like XP.
edX
mac shaman
this is something i sadly agree with. fortunately i believe that the mac community really is composed of more everyday people who don't visit forums like this on a regular basis. what we get are the ravings of a few ultra geeks and dissatisfied switchers. The views often reflected here are not those of most mac users.
I also think mac users come in 2 flavors - computer idiots who are just thankful to have a good computer that works so easily and intuitively (how i got started with macs) and professional specialists.
i don't think the average users are at all worried about how apple is progressing. in fact apple seems to be working overtime to provide them with what they need and want. pro users on the other hand might have a bit more reason for feeling ignored right now. still, most of our pro users around here seem to think that they still work better on a mac than on a souped up wintel.
I think anybody who isn't happy with thieir mac should just go ahead and switch back. Why do they feel the need to whine to other mac users about their view? It's not like we're going to change apple by discussions like this.
sign me - just another average mac user who has advanced from being a computer idiot and still loves his mac.