Official Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Thread & FAQ
- Thread starter fryke
- Start date
nixgeek
Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
I had e-mailed fryke about this, but I thought I would post it here as well. I was thinking about preordering Snow Leopard for $29. However, I notice that Apple is calling this offer an "upgrade" for Leopard users. Now, I know the word "upgrade" has a tendency to be used VERY loosely when it comes to software, so I thought I would ask the following. Is one required to have Leopard in order to take advantage of SL for the $29 offer? Would I be able to purchase SL for $29 and install it on an Intel Mac with Tiger? Could I do a full installation with it as opposed to just upgrading a previous version?
I know that Apple is recommending the Box Set for those without Leopard, but what if all I want is Snow Leopard without the iLife/iWork suite?
Thanks guys.
EDIT: Just saw icemanjc's post which sort of answers my question.
I know that Apple is recommending the Box Set for those without Leopard, but what if all I want is Snow Leopard without the iLife/iWork suite?
Thanks guys.
EDIT: Just saw icemanjc's post which sort of answers my question.
icemanjc
I'm cool, I have a mac.
I too checked this upgrade option out thoroughly and just as I had figured, under System Requirement Mac OS 10.5 Leopard is listed.
What I don't understand is supposedly Snow Leopard was supposed to clear up a lot of the clutter in 10.5 that is caused by now useless PowerPC stuff. How do they plan to do this if they are just installing on top of something that is already cluttered...?
nixgeek
Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
Well, the SL installation will probably do a clean up of older files and replace them with newer files, all the while removing excess PPC code. I gather that it would still have the necessary files but would check for an existing Leopard installation.
There are a lot of UB applications and extensions (and the kernel) in Leopard. They contain a PPC and an intel part. The new versions come only with the intel part. This certainly makes them smaller. I guess I've said it on the first page of this thread in answer to Doctor X, as he said.
I am wondering if the name "UPGRADE" is not here for a completely different reason.
It may be to indicate that Apple does not sell full versions of the software without hardware ! It may prevent rights issues with companies who want to start hackintosh business.
It may be to indicate that Apple does not sell full versions of the software without hardware ! It may prevent rights issues with companies who want to start hackintosh business.
Satcomer
In Geostationary Orbit
Well we all know how your applications drive your computing life. So make sure your important applications are compatible read the site Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Compatibility List and contribute to it.
Just a little wrap-up on the day that it became clear that the final build of Mac OS X 10.6 is 10A432, the version that has last been tested by developers:
1.) You can either upgrade from Leopard (with the 29$ retail disc or the 9.95$ up-to-date disc) or Tiger (with the Mac Box Set) or clean install using Disk Utility when started from the disc. All of this only works on intel Macs, but works on _all_ intel Macs.
2.) Unless you've got an Xserve, your Mac will boot the 32-bit kernel per default. Some - but not all - newer machines allow booting the 64-bit kernel, but as a general rule: You shouldn't care. If you ask yourself whether the 64-bit kernel would do any good for you, it won't.
3.) Rosetta can be installed directly from the 10.6 installer, but if you forget to install it and have an application that requires it, Software Update will download and install Rosetta for you without rebooting. You just have to start the application again yourself after Software Update finishes installing Rosetta.
4.) Quicktime X has no preferences. There basically *are no settings*! You can, however, install Quicktime 7 from within the 10.6 installer. This application still has preferences and you can add your Quicktime 7 Pro code from within the Quicktime 7 Player and have its features in 10.6.
5.) Some reports claim that the 29$ "Upgrade Disc" actually is a full disc, meaning that you don't have to have Leopard installed at installation time, and it also won't ask you for your Leopard disc. However this disc, according to the reports, does _not_ allow you to upgrade from Tiger. So there _is_ a difference between the discs. The "Upgrade Disc" allows clean installs and updates from Leopard, the Mac Box set behaves just like Leopard Retail did and lets you upgrade from Tiger and Leopard and also allows for clean installs.
1.) You can either upgrade from Leopard (with the 29$ retail disc or the 9.95$ up-to-date disc) or Tiger (with the Mac Box Set) or clean install using Disk Utility when started from the disc. All of this only works on intel Macs, but works on _all_ intel Macs.
2.) Unless you've got an Xserve, your Mac will boot the 32-bit kernel per default. Some - but not all - newer machines allow booting the 64-bit kernel, but as a general rule: You shouldn't care. If you ask yourself whether the 64-bit kernel would do any good for you, it won't.
3.) Rosetta can be installed directly from the 10.6 installer, but if you forget to install it and have an application that requires it, Software Update will download and install Rosetta for you without rebooting. You just have to start the application again yourself after Software Update finishes installing Rosetta.
4.) Quicktime X has no preferences. There basically *are no settings*! You can, however, install Quicktime 7 from within the 10.6 installer. This application still has preferences and you can add your Quicktime 7 Pro code from within the Quicktime 7 Player and have its features in 10.6.
5.) Some reports claim that the 29$ "Upgrade Disc" actually is a full disc, meaning that you don't have to have Leopard installed at installation time, and it also won't ask you for your Leopard disc. However this disc, according to the reports, does _not_ allow you to upgrade from Tiger. So there _is_ a difference between the discs. The "Upgrade Disc" allows clean installs and updates from Leopard, the Mac Box set behaves just like Leopard Retail did and lets you upgrade from Tiger and Leopard and also allows for clean installs.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
So... about number 5... I have Leopard installed, so I should be able to boot my Snow Leopard disk on Friday and perform a clean install. No problem-o, that's what I was hoping for.
Let's say, somewhere down the line, that I wipe out my internal hard drive with a clean partition/format. In order to install Snow Leopard again, I would have to first clean install Leopard, then clean install Snow Leopard, correct?
What I'm getting as is that I can't use the Snow Leopard upgrade disk to perform a clean install without first having Leopard on the drive... correct assumption?
Let's say, somewhere down the line, that I wipe out my internal hard drive with a clean partition/format. In order to install Snow Leopard again, I would have to first clean install Leopard, then clean install Snow Leopard, correct?
What I'm getting as is that I can't use the Snow Leopard upgrade disk to perform a clean install without first having Leopard on the drive... correct assumption?
Satcomer
In Geostationary Orbit
That is why they are called "Upgrade Disks". This is why I am waiting for the full US $129 version this time around. I am saying this as a Beta tester (I think it safe to say now) there will be a lot of bell aching coming this Friday.
Unless the program was written for 10.5 only you are 90% assured that the program will not run! That is almost across the board! Third party developers will have to be releasing like bandits come this weekend. That is why I am waiting this time and skipping the bleeding edge.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
I understand this perfectly. I was wondering this because Snow Leopard could have taken the direction of, say, Adobe in the sense that you needn't have Leopard installed to upgrade -- you can perform a clean installation, and at some point, you'd be asked to insert your Leopard DVD to verify that you are eligible to perform a clean install.
I think you're going to be waiting for a very long time. I don't think there's going to be a $129 Snow Leopard-only version -- I think the Box Set is the full version, and Apple is transitioning to including iLife with OS X now.
Just a guess.
Why would this be? Adobe CS4 runs fine under 10.4 and 10.5, and runs just fine under the developer seeds of 10.6 as well.
The latest version of Panic's Transmit runs on systems as far back as 10.3.9 and runs fine on 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 as well.
10.6 is not a huge leap in architecture like 10.4 to 10.5 was. Granted, there are many changes and improvements under the hood, but most developers will find that their programs that run under 10.5 will run under 10.6 as well.
Unless the developer is using 10.5-specific hacks or some underlying hooks into the system that have changed (which not many, but some, have), then their apps should be good to go. A simple Google search for "10.6 compatibility list" yields many results and on each of those lists, the majority of apps listed are "OK" for 10.6. That tells me that 90% of current apps WILL run under 10.6, not 90% of apps WON'T run as you state.
Like I said: There are user reports that claim you *CAN* clean install the 29$ disk _without_ having Leopard installed on any machine. I know my previous post was long and numbered, but it contains most information on any frequently asked questions I've heard so far. I'll gladly edit the list later on, should newer information become available.
Besides, even if those reports should turn out incorrect: Why would you wipe the harddrive *first*, instead of letting the Snow Leopard installation disc do it (and recognise that you already had SL installed)?
---> I've added a FAQ to the first post in the thread. Please expand it and ask me to make changes if you find mistakes.
Besides, even if those reports should turn out incorrect: Why would you wipe the harddrive *first*, instead of letting the Snow Leopard installation disc do it (and recognise that you already had SL installed)?
---> I've added a FAQ to the first post in the thread. Please expand it and ask me to make changes if you find mistakes.
Last edited:
Satcomer
In Geostationary Orbit
Well I found if the developer used another program besides XCode to make the program ( a lot of them do that) then they will have problems. I also think with Rosetta being an Optional install will trick up a lot of Users.
ElDiabloConCaca
U.S.D.A. Prime
What other development programs exist for making native Mac OS X programs?
The only one I can think of is CodeWarrior, which I believe only makes Carbon-based programs, which should still run fine under 10.6.
The only other IDEs I can think of are RealBasic, Eclipse/NetBeans (for Java-based apps), and command-line scripts/binaries, all of which are "cross-platform" capable and do not have many hooks into version-specific OS functions.
Can you give an example of a few programs that:
a) ran fine under 10.4 or 10.5 and...
b) do not run fine under 10.6 and...
c) were developed outside of XCode?
The only one I can think of is CodeWarrior, which I believe only makes Carbon-based programs, which should still run fine under 10.6.
The only other IDEs I can think of are RealBasic, Eclipse/NetBeans (for Java-based apps), and command-line scripts/binaries, all of which are "cross-platform" capable and do not have many hooks into version-specific OS functions.
Can you give an example of a few programs that:
a) ran fine under 10.4 or 10.5 and...
b) do not run fine under 10.6 and...
c) were developed outside of XCode?
Satcomer
In Geostationary Orbit
Like I said: There are user reports that claim you *CAN* clean install the 29$ disk _without_ having Leopard installed on any machine. I know my previous post was long and numbered, but it contains most information on any frequently asked questions I've heard so far. I'll gladly edit the list later on, should newer information become available.
Besides, even if those reports should turn out incorrect: Why would you wipe the harddrive *first*, instead of letting the Snow Leopard installation disc do it (and recognise that you already had SL installed)?
---> I've added a FAQ to the first post in the thread. Please expand it and ask me to make changes if you find mistakes.
Well as you may know that when people used the Leopard upgrade function a lot of people experienced networking wireless issues that full and archive & install people did not have. Some major hacking to get it working correctly. Everyone in the Mac User groups I was in that did either a Fresh or Archive Install had zero problems compared to the Upgraded versions.
so this time around I am going to wait and let all the Mac users I know be my Beta tester before I jump in. Yes I will eventfully upgrade because the Beta was that good. People will be amazed on how much everything seems quicker and lighter. The new Finder IMHO is the creme of the crop and people once they learn the ins and pouts of the new Finder will be plenty surprised.