Policy on Warez, Serialz, and P2P Discussions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hmmm interesting discussion wich is as old as the way to Rome. Ahm.. nothing really new under the sun. Those who favor the new policy don't show the legal base it is based on cause it seems more like the oldfashioned "trick to hear yourself talk: "This is my house and i can do whatever i like"

Well think again: Wrong.
I am not going to summon up all legal rules cause that it's kid'stuff but i will try to put it in plain english.

1st:

This forum is not "as in your house"
Your house is a piece of property inside a country wich you rent or own.Neverthless you still can't do everything inside your own house.The law is clearly on that. Using those "rules"is just to cover youself in for troubles.Old trick,doesn't always work that way.
Let's put it more clearly: If you use those socalled social (by law)rules of real-life as a way to make your point, fine... BUT then you are also abliged to honor the rights! of those same people.In other words IF your socalled "Houserules" neglect the civil right someone has, your set rules are invalid.

Let's have an example:

I am invited in your house. we differ on politic's and you don't like to hear the name of a certain politician who isn't a racist or whatever but just your average politician and because of that you wanna throw me out of your house, you are breaking the law cause you neglected my rights as a citizen to use my freedom of expression cause as it says clearly that "no one can be stripped of his rights to express himself in the open or within certain borders"Despite that you don't like it it still gives you NOT the right to trown me out.
It is different if i start to threaten you or hurt anyone in your family thusfar bringing danger to your house and property.You as a host has a certain dutycare for his guest.Don't believe it, check the facts on human rights and the convictions regarding this matter.

So... If I wanna talk about warez or whatever i am allowed to speak about it.NO law prohibits that cause talking about it is not wrong, having it, is wrong! BIG diference! Despite that someone is waving with "But my rules state"" those rules differ with the real set rules set by law(one uses so dearly to set houserules regarding warez etc) wich allowes everyone to speak his mind freely, your socalled "houserules"are invalid,plain and simple!Thus no one has to follow them up. And if you still do whatever you like. Good.. you are free to be held accountable for your actions irl.

One cannot use on the other hand the wellknown law to set the rules but on the other hand don't wanna hear about the rights people have.This is not a dictatorship or even the censorburo but the worldwide web, where there are certain rules set, but also alot of freedom.Anyone..i repeat anyone who wanna temper that freedom of expression(except those who misuse it to threaten etc folks or whatever) should be held accountable for their action.

So to conclude it all:

Lighten up and don't misuse the freedom of the worldwide web to become a part of the censorburo cause the talk about:"It is part of preserving the honesty or purity of the web" is alot of BS!

So i have spoken...:)
 
Speech in private workplaces may, of course, be restricted by employers; the First Amendment by its terms applies only to the government. But this is true for all speech on private property. Speech in private universities may be restricted by the university. Private commercial landlords may refuse to rent to the Communists or the Nazis. Speech in churches may be restricted by the church; speech in Slate may be restricted by Michael Kinsley. But none of this empowers the government to suppress what people say in these places.
Click to expand...

Cigar, educate yourself on American laws before assuming you know what they are. Anyone else feel like allowing me to test out my freedoms on your account?

People bitch and moan all day... I get tired of it.
 
Nah, I guess ScottW just wanted to make very clear that this new policy is in place for quite a while now and that he's a bit tired of discussing it over and over again. :)
 
he doesn't have to defend it alone. It's not HIS policy but the forums. And we have a bunch of moderators..
This thread is for such discussions. It's free for everyone to post his complaints about this site or the rules in THIS thread as much as it is free for everyone that is tired of it to ignore it. Unless we close this thread, no one has the right to silence anyone here with threats. Not even the site founder.
This forum is so successful because there are a bunch of experts here and other ppl with an ear for any problem, donating ppl and good moderators with sensible rules. There is no freedom of a single person.
Just for everyone who got shocked by that comment. ;)
If you want this, I will dedicate myself to deal with the "bitching and moaning" ppl and logically defend our rules and policy.
 
I think you don't have to dedicate yourself to that Sisiphus-work. It's enough if we have quite a few members and moderators who understand the policy and explain it where necessary. I'm glad you're willing to help, but afaik this is the only place where it's ever discussed. If someone asks about it in another forum, it depends on how he or she is asking. Either their thread is merged with this one (dunno if that has happened before) or their thread is removed and they're banned (if they're actually skipping the board rules, go ahead and ask for warez etc.).
 
It's amazing to me that people can't accept the rules that they agreed to when they signed up to this board in the first place…hrumpf.
 
Natobasso said:
It's amazing to me that people can't accept the rules that they agreed to when they signed up to this board in the first place…hrumpf.
Click to expand...
did you read the rules before you signed in here? I actually came here with a single problem and wanted to find some help. Searched the posts and when I found one and I wanted to add my problem, I realized I needed to sign in and so I did. Didn't read any rules. Just by time I learned them.
I don't find it bad that ppl discuss about the rules and other board policies. It shows they don't just come here to find solutions for their problems, but kinda care for the whole system. As far I can overlook the ppl posting in this thread, they are mostly old members to whom macosx.com got very important or some new members that do not just post in the software or hardware issues forums, but also in the cafe forum or other "non-issues" forums. I find such ppl "more important" for the forum than those rather "egoistical" members that only care for their own problems..
Silencing such ppl won't help macosx.com..
 
I think I am just responding to those people who complain about not being able to talk about sharing software, P2P, or anything else that on this board is EXPRESSLY forbidden.

I find it very hard to understand why people go on a rant when if they just read the rules of the board they would probably have their questions answered. You can debate what's fair till the cows come home, but the fact is that when you sign up to this board, you agree to play by its rules.

There's no need to silence anyone, but there is a need for some to do a little research before they start trying to bend the rules or explain them away. They are in place for a reason.
 
Natobasso said:
Zammy, so what's your point? I didn't quite understand your post.
Click to expand...
When you joined the forum, did you first go to the board rules and read it all? I didn't and I think many ppl did like me: they had a problem, searched in google, found a post on macosx.com, read the post and wanted to ask the ppl how the problem can be solved in their case, try to post something but a message poped up asking for login, then quickly signed in and finally post the question and hope you will get an answer soon.
Of course, there is something somewhere telling what I should do and not do, but does this interest you at that moment? Aren't most of us just thinking: ok, just this question and I won't have anything to do with the ppl here anymore? So, the mods have to deal with a lot of new members that post things they are not allowed to simply because they didn't read them.
It's not right, but that's the way it is.
Your line about being amazed how ppl could "accept" the board rules and start complaining about them afterwards is because they didn't read them before. Hope this was more understandable for you.
But still there are ppl knowing about the board rules and still discussing them. And as I said in my previous post: those ppl are not trying to complain, but make macosx.com (as their "home") more - in their opinion - fair. And just referring to the board rules as a tenet is not right. Imagine every political party would be silenced when they wanted to change anything about the law... If someone has a great idea, why not change it? But by now, no one had a better idea since things simply work fine. I know that p2p tools are not illegal, but avoiding any discussions of them will make it easier for the mods to not deal with tough borderline cases. And this proved to be a great concept. Our forum is probably the best mac forum and probably also because of the rules.
I think this will satisfy everyone that has a question about avoiding any p2p discussion.
 
"Imagine every political party would be silenced when they wanted to change anything about the law..." That would again assume that macosx.com is a 'democracy'. But the important thing to keep in mind here is that basically any comparison to any countries and forms of states out there are inherently flawed, because this is NOT a country, it's a website. And it's a forum. With an administrator and moderators. And we'd better just use _that_ picture to talk. It's a forum with an admin, moderators and users. And yes, the users do not decide the rules of the forum - and it's the admin and mods who are there for keeping the rules intact...

(You see, it's a bit like people always talking about computers comparing them to car-makers. While that's fun and all, some fundamental things about the making of cars just doesn't apply to computers, which renders the talk futile in most cases...)
 
Users, of course, can still _talk_ about things they'd like to see changed. That, of course, depends on the seriousness of some rules. You see: We, for example, don't like religous or political talk in System & Software. However you _can_ do that in the Café. We also don't like talk about the warez-rules in News, Rumours and General. We _do_ however talk about it here. I think macosx.com offers a place for (almost) everyone. And the other things are set by the rules...
 
Zammy
Anyone signing up to join something should read the rules. No excuse for not doing so.

If you were buying a house, would you go through with the deal before reading the paper work?

Same with a car.

Like the old saying, Ignorance is no excuse.

I know probably most people don't read the Board Rules when they join, only after they've seen a discussion like this. The majority of folks are fine with our rules. The rules are in place to keep this a nice, friendly and legal forum for everyone to enjoy.

Those that don't want to conform to Board Rules are free to go to other forums for what they need.

P2P discussions, warez, etc, are not permitted here. It usually leads to asking about illegal things. So, we stop it before it can start.

We'd like everyone to enjoy the forums, come here for help, help others, inform people of things. Just adhere to the board Rules which really aren't too stringent.
 
My point was actually to give ppl that care about the forum a chance to take part to it. I am not talking about giving them the right to change the rules. And I am not talking about any democraticall system in this forum. But showing them that we are opened to any suggestion is a very important thing which we actually do show with this thread. I collected a lot of experiences with my sport club. I think you can find a lot of similarities to this forum. I am one of the coaches like the mods in here and the owner could be seen as the site founder. Of course, no member has the right to change any rules or the fee for memberships eventough ppl complain a lot about it. Yes, it's actually simple: if you are not ok with it, you are free to look for another place, as Bob said. But showing the ppl, that we do care what they think about our system is very important and makes the ppl feel much more comfortable. The members in my sport club never changed any rules and they know they may not. But they know they can complain about things and there is an ear for these things. That's all that matters.
The reason for all my recent posts in this thread were actually because I got the impression members shouldn't have the right to discuss about the rules. And that's why I offered my "service" to give the unsatisfied ppl a listening ear and some feedback.. This will - how I think - make the atmosphere a lot more friendly.
 
Zammy - I agree with you on one point. I'm guessing that over 75% of new users do not read the board rules before signing up. I never read the board rules myself, but I live by my own rules, and they generally are in line with what is right, legal, and fair.
It should also be mentioned that the board rules, like the color schemes of the board itself, have changed since I first made my account. I did not agree to the terms of servive as they have been changed.

Scott - I don't give a DAMN if you are sick and tired of this discussion, it is obvious that there are numerous others for whom this issue is a hot topic and it's not going to go away. So until you become enlightened like the rest of us, you'd better get used to it. I myself personally don't like bullies with "my house my rules" attitudes, and I absolutely loath censorship anywhere in any form and despise with a passion those that practice it; that is why I make a continued effort to fight for the cause here.This place really used to kickass, now it kinda sucks. Blah blah blah, I'm a drama queen yada yada yada.
This is not a kingdom Scott, and you are not the King. You are more like the owner of a big bar and you have a very large group of regulars. We don't come here because of you Scott, you are inconsequential at this point. But for some reason you have a big swollen head. You enjoy the power you percieve to have here. But as the aforementioned bar owner, while you have the right to set up certain expected house rules, you cannot seriously expect your patrons to let you control what they talk about. You are ruining what was once the best OS X forum on the net with your blatant censorship and fascist mentality.

Here is a perfect example of your abuse of powers:

You deleted the follwing text from one of my earlier posts:
" use google and search for x"
x was implying an unknown variable. Basically, n could be anything. I said simply "use google and search for the thing that you want to search for. This could be distilled as simply "use google". I was recomending to someone that they use google,..one of the best known and most widely used search engines on the net today, and you had that censored. Why? I'd love to hear a logical reason from you with more depth than a simple "my house, my rules, don't like it, leave" kneejerk response.

And the Banning of people just because you can? That really shows us all a lot about the quality of your character.

/HELP SAVE AMERICA! VOTE KERRY ON TUESDAY!
 
Scott says we cant talk about p2p software because although it may have legit uses, it may also be used illegally, and he would rather avoid any grey area and fine line discussions on the topic. Better safe than sorry says he. By that logic, the following would also apply.



Macs have many legit uses, but they can also be used to break the law. To avoid any discussions about macs being used in these nefarious ways, we will have a zero tolerance policy regarding macs. Anyone talking about macs on macosx.com will be banned immediately, no questions, no second chances.

also,

the internet may have many legit uses, but since it also may be used for illegal and immoral activites, and since we wish to avoid any possible discussions about these nefarious activites, any discussions about the internet is immeadiate cause for bannation, no questions, no second chances.


see how ridiculous it is to stand there and state that we wont allow p2p discussion because it may lead to grey area discussions?
 
stizz said:
You deleted the follwing text from one of my earlier posts:
" use google and search for x" x was implying an unknown variable. Basically, n could be anything. I said simply "use google and search for the thing that you want to search for. This could be distilled as simply "use google".
Click to expand...

Everyone ALWAYS assumes. I have NO CLUE what you are talking about... so if you want to point me to the post, that would be fine. What everyone fails to understand is board is made up of a team of great moderators, each empowered to take action as they see fit.

Yes, there are boundries, but there is great freedom inside boundries.

You can blast off at the mouth all you want... and rant and rave. But, at some point, you will cross a boundry, maybe you already have. It is at those moments in time that a moderator or even myself see something and take action as they see fit.

For all those who complain, go somewhere else. For 99.9% of our users, this is all fine... we have no issues with. It is the .1% that we have the rules for, it is the .1% that we take necessary action with.

If you want to be 1/10th of 1% of our users... then go ahead... be my guest. But realize the consequences.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top