The Official War Room

Originally posted by Ugg
BD, too many Americans are concerned about their rights and not about their responsibilities.
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If I were to take that kind of tone this is what would be said: Too many Europeans (esp. the French) are hating ALL Americans and are discriminate against me just because I am an American.

See what I am getting at?
 
I think that by doing this, Bush has jeopardized his ablilty to run for a second term.

I strongly hope he won't get a second term. As for Tony Blair: I'm sure glad he'll be out of his office after the next elections by the latest.


What would be happening right now if Gore was president?

We might be in a similar situation (I don't think the difference between Republicans and Democrats is that fundamental anymore), he might also go to war with Iraq but he would probably get away with it (unlike GWB I hope).
I could open a debate on the US two-party system (and how much political diversity you can expect from that) now but I think we should concentrate on urgent matters here.
 
I beg to disagree. For one thing, the French have a much clearer idea of who we are. Whether this allows them to judge us more fairly is debatable but nonetheless our ignorance of the world will be our downfall.

As an American I have the right to legally own a gun. I also have a morally if not legally defined responsibility to ensure that the gun is locked away from those who would misuse it. Not only that but if I use that gun and I injure or kill someone without legal justification then they have the right to come after me with all the force of the law. This is a simplified version of how things work.

Is GW willing to accept the fact that he is going to be killing many thousands of Iraqis? Does he have the moral or legal justification to do so? Is his behaviour responsible? Does he have the right to make this decision?
 
One thing that I seem to keep reading in the foreign press is the religious fundamentalism that is common both to the USA and large parts of the Arab world. The more I think about it, the more it scares me. Both Arab and American versions of fundamentalism seem to share a common bond, one that goes back to the crusades, in that there is only black and white, right and wrong, good and evil, believer and non-believer.

GW sounds more like a bad circuit preacher of the 30s and 40s than he does a ruler of the most powerful nation of the world. But then maybe in the end we get what we want........
 
About my "seeds of democracy"...
as I said, binaryDigit: it's so paradox! USA is so sure they are the seeds of democracy, but the way they act rigth now they look more like Hittler than Saddam does. That's why the whole thing stinks

Be careful with such statements! Be sure to back them up with sufficient histprical knowledge. Although I wholeheartedly agree with you about the so called seeds of democracy I suggest you read a little more about WW2 and the time between the world wars before you compare anyone with Hitler.


Granted, Armand is not in danger of being bombed by the U.S. Air Force, but his opinion is valid, yes?

Sure he is. But we wouldn't be in today's situation if the Iraqi opposition had been properly supported by the US and its allies after Gulf War I. But I guess that option did not appeal to Bush Sr. and his successors.
 
Ugg wrote:
"One thing that I seem to keep reading in the foreign press is the religious fundamentalism that is common both to the USA and large parts of the Arab world. The more I think about it, the more it scares me. Both Arab and American versions of fundamentalism seem to share a common bond, one that goes back to the crusades, in that there is only black and white, right and wrong, good and evil, believer and non-believer. "


im writing my university master paper on the subject of Lucretius (ancient roman guy who wrote this large poem in the century before christ about the nature of everything) and he noticed that there is always a line that must not be crossed in societies that worship gods. That is when you start to justify things by your religion. Gods should inspire love. not war.
 
One thing that I seem to keep reading in the foreign press is the religious fundamentalism that is common both to the USA and large parts of the Arab world. The more I think about it, the more it scares me.

You have good reasons to be scared. Just take a look at history and how much pain, suffering, injustice, death and grief religions have brought to the human race. Considering that the worlds most powerful nation is far from being a secular one (especially with the current government) and many of its opponents aren't either, there could be a desaster anytime.

One more reasons not to follow any flock when it comes to my personal beliefs. Organized religion can turn into anything: Blind faith combined with power is bound to oppress and/or force convert infidels.
 
Originally posted by doemel
One thing that I seem to keep reading in the foreign press is the religious fundamentalism that is common both to the USA and large parts of the Arab world. The more I think about it, the more it scares me.

You have good reasons to be scared. Just take a look at history and how much pain, suffering, injustice, death and grief religions have brought to the human race. Considering that the worlds most powerful nation is far from being a secular one (especially with the current government) and many of its opponents aren't either, there could be a desaster anytime.

One more reasons not to follow any flock when it comes to my personal beliefs. Organized religion can turn into anything: Blind faith combined with power is bound to oppress and/or force convert infidels.
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That "religious wars over the years" thing is getting quite old. Yes, there have been countless atrocities done in the name of one "religion" or another. But then again I completely fail to understand how anyone who has a concept of man outside a higher being can miss the point that if there IS NO higher being, then religions are merely an extension of man. Therefore anything done in the name of "religion" would, could, and is being done even in the lack of an organized religion by the perpetrators. Just because organizations such as churchs have power and therefore can foist their members into powerful roles is meaningless in the context of _man_ doing evil things to man. Religion might give justification and an avenue to exercise ones will over a greater audience, but it hardly breeds evildoing any more than any other organized group.

Saying "look at how much suffering is caused by religions" is the same as saying "look at how much suffering is caused by a group of people against another group of people", whether they be bound by religion, economic status, race, tribe, country, gang, etc, etc, etc.
 
Originally posted by Ugg
BD, too many Americans are concerned about their rights and not about their responsibilities.
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Here I cannot agree. This may be true in other cases but not here. In the contrary, on my opinion, USA feels responsible for something that the rest of the world would like to share responsability: how to make a better world. American think that because the other do not share their (just ?) view, they have the responsability to impose these. And the vast majority of the rest of the world thinks that they are other ways to think and to behave.
 
Just because organizations such as churchs have power and therefore can foist their members into powerful roles is meaningless in the context of _man_ doing evil things to man. Religion might give justification and an avenue to exercise ones will over a greater audience, but it hardly breeds evildoing any more than any other organized group.

Couldn't agree more. I'm just trying to point out that we're not dealing with opponents that base their motifs very much on reason.
 
Many of your comments make me sad, and laugh at the same time.

Just remember, God (the one true God) is in control.
 
Many of your comments make me sad, and laugh at the same time.

I guess this qualifies me as your opponent in this debate :D
 
Originally posted by Decado
I think we should discuss a line that came up in this thread. Its meaning went something like this: "Iraq has illegal weapons".
Illegal weapons? Weapons of massdestruction?

USA got them, and they have even attacked another country with them. Shouldnt it be illegal for USA also to have them?
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The reason that Iraq's weapons are illegal is that Iraq is under sanctions from the UN, and forbidden to have any weapons. The US is not under sanctions, and has the right under the charter of the united nations to defencd itself and its people. Thats why we can have an army, and some pretty nasty guns.
 
well, all i can say is that it's good you've got a relationship with God, because i think there's going to be a lot of praying to be done in the future.
 
Originally posted by ScottW
Just remember, God (the one true God) is in control.
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And I wonder how you are going to answer for your actions and motivations when you see Him.

:D Maybe you could play out that encounter by telling all of us how you expect your proud signature would be received by your god ( :rolleyes: assuming you actually believe and it is not a matter of convenience).
 
Dangerous assimilations between God and war being made here.
It seems it has been forgotten that no religion supports war.
 
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Genoa, Italy, today's newspaper (La Repubblica). W (=viva) peace.
 
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