Vista, the osx wanna be....?

contoursvt

Registered
Yeah, that one is just like going to "Start" to shut down your computer :)


sal

Sorta :) ... but I always thought it meant the button was a starting point to stuff you want to do so if I want to start shutting down, I'll click on start and then see what tasks are there. Ok fine I'm making stuff up a bit now. LOL
 

ApeintheShell

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Here is an explanation for the eject to trash debate:

"The Macintosh, from the Mac 128k up until the Quadra 605, included floppy drives that featured auto-inject and auto-eject. Auto-inject sucks the disk out of your hand into the drive if you push the disk in most of the way. Auto-eject ejects the disk from the drive when the user drags the disk icon to the trash in the Finder. IBM PC-compatibles, in contrast, have never offered either of these features, forcing users to push the disks all the way into the drive and press a button on the drive to manually eject the disk.
The origin of auto-eject can be attributed to Steve Jobs conception of the Macintosh as a "crankless Volkswagen" that runs "a system which is generally intuitive to users." In the Finder of the Macintosh operating system, the icon of a floppy disk appears when a disk is inserted. When the user is finished working with the disk, she drags the floppy icon to the trash, and the disk is ejected. Auto-eject completes the metaphor of the desktop, providing the user with a consistent experience.

In DOS on PC-compatible systems, inserting a floppy disk results in no immediate visual feedback. (Even in Windows 9x/NT, the floppy drive icon remains visible whether or not a disk is inserted.) The user must type the highly intuitive "cd A:" in order to even access the contents of the floppy disk. PC users often argue that the manual eject offers them the freedom to remove their disk whenever they please; however, this freedom can be quite dangerous when new users try to eject a floppy while it is being written to or read from. Auto-eject, therefore, is not only a means of consistency, but also of preventing potentially catastrophic user error".

source: http://home.socal.rr.com/fuweb/floppysite/eject.html
 

fryke

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Hm. Yes. But it kinda _still_ doesn't explain why ejecting a disk (even if automatically) would be represented by dragging it to a trashcan. To a user, this *obviously* looks like "deleting". I guess they just didn't find a metaphor for it that worked.
 

nixgeek

Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
Hm. Yes. But it kinda _still_ doesn't explain why ejecting a disk (even if automatically) would be represented by dragging it to a trashcan. To a user, this *obviously* looks like "deleting". I guess they just didn't find a metaphor for it that worked.
I always thought of it as trashing it from your "virtual" desktop since you didn't need it anymore, and that way the disk would remove itself from the computer and be put somewhere in the "real-world" desktop or anywhere else in the real world. That's how it made sense to me.
 

fryke

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I always thought of it as trashing it from your "virtual" desktop since you didn't need it anymore, and that way the disk would remove itself from the computer and be put somewhere in the "real-world" desktop or anywhere else in the real world. That's how it made sense to me.
But that's clearly a "workaround" for a user interface bug. When you "open a folder", you "open a folder". When you "label a file" you "label a file". But when you put a disk to the trashcan... ;)
It's also not only about explaining what the metaphor should mean. Think of it the other way 'round. You're in front of a Mac Plus the first time in your life. Inserting the disk: Easy. You put it in. The Mac even helps you by sucking it in the last inch. But now: How to eject it? I'm *QUITE* certain that a user who doesn't know about it wouldn't try to move it to the trash. Not with important files on it.
 

ApeintheShell

Registered
If you search in the Mac Help on your computer under 'eject disks' this shortcut is listed as the third step. So most people are probably going to use the menu bar or sidebar in the Finder first. If they do decide to use it for ejecting their disks the Dock lets them know they are ejecting the disk by replacing the trash icon with an eject icon.
 

fryke

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Wasn't the case 'til OS X, ApeintheShell. I'm talking about the beginning of this metaphor...
 

CincyJim

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quite off-topic, stevenyc.
Not "off-topic" at all! The topic is " Vista, the osx wanna be....?" and stevenyc pointed out how Apple was copying MS with its number of OS fixes, thus on-topic as Vista is a MS product.

Further there is no relationship between the two as MS does not make computers.
 

fryke

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you realise that my "off-topic" message was from March, and that he was talking about how "Apple copied MS" by releasing a large security patch. Hardly what the thread was talking about... But hey: Welcome. :)
 

Rhisiart

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I use XP at work (our PCs are frequently serviced). Drives me absolutely insane. Difficulty removing devices, poor quality graphics and frequent freezes and involuntary shut downs. The only thing I like is Windows Explorer.

My father recently upgraded to Vista (well he did and has now changed back). It was the same mess, but with more eye candy.

I tried it. Everything ran too slow (OK maybe he needs to upgrade his hardware) and the incessant pop-ups were enough to drive the poor man to throw himself out to of his cyber-shed window.

There are aspects of MacOS X I don't like (an unlockable dock!!!). Inconsistent interface designs (thank heavens for UNO). I don't know why the trash can is in the dock and I think we are all agreed that the Finder needs improving (hail Leopard?).

My last car got me from A to B - sometimes. My current car, whilst not perfect, gets me from A to B just about every time. The same applies to Vista vs MacOS. I just want an OS that is reliable and enables me to get my jobs done. MacOS X does this so much better.
 

CincyJim

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The main difference is that Apple builds computers whereas MS does not. Therefore Apple has a significant lead in providing a more stable platform since Apple decides on the hardware AND software specs.

Gates lucked out and stuck to selling just the OS forcing others to try and make their hardwares software work with his POS.
 

Lt Major Burns

"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
on Monday i will be installing home Premium vista on a 6 year old Dell Dimension 1.8GHz P4, also adding in 1GB ram and a GeForce 6200 256MB to hopefully offset the vista bloat. My Dad decided to buy a copy of vista and asked me to help get it to work... minimum reccomended reqs are 1Ghz, and i presume that takes into account Celerons... a processor twice as fast should be ok, right? ha ha ha i've told him the next time the computer is too slow, it'll be an iMac as an upgrade...
 

Rhisiart

Registered
The main difference is that Apple builds computers whereas MS does not. Therefore Apple has a significant lead in providing a more stable platform since Apple decides on the hardware AND software specs.
I take your point.

Gates lucked out and stuck to selling just the OS forcing others to try and make their hardwares software work with his POS.
I'm not sure that Gates really made a mistake when he stuck to selling only his OS.

IBM were very dominant at that time. They just hadn't put much thought into developing an OS themselves. They thought the hardware would be more important.

Gates had the vision to see that if would be the other way round and that trying to compete with IBM on the hardware front as well would be a folly.
 

fryke

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Ah, we're mixing up history again once more. ;) ... (IBM wasn't dominant in personal computers back then. Dominant, but not in the PC world. Apple was with the Apple II, if anyone was.)
But let's look at things as they are _today_. And while it's true that designing the hardware for their OS is a good reason for Mac OS X' stability, that shouldn't matter for the user –*unless if you mean that they should actually _buy_ Macs. ;)

"Macs are only better because Mac OS X has only got to support a specific range of machines." – "So you agree they are better, then." That's how these discussions should go.
 

CincyJim

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... ... I'm not sure that Gates really made a mistake when he stuck to selling only his OS.
I did not mean that "Gates ... made a mistake" but that his decision was luck leading him to be the world's richest man.
 

hawki18

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I did not mean that "Gates ... made a mistake" but that his decision was luck leading him to be the world's richest man.

Why is everything with Bill is always luck or screwed up. He bought dos for 50k and sold to IBM and was smart enough not to give them total rights to the os. That is what got him started on being the Wold Richest man. He a very sharp business man, I don't get why mac users always got to find issues with him. I guess the old book The Cult Mac expalins it better than anything.
 
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