Which browser do you use for primary?

[neutrino23]

Omniweb is my main browser. The number of sites it can't handle has become virtually zero for me. For those rare cases I use Netscape.

For a few special features I use iCab. I use it for automated page access via Applescript and I use it to save whole pages or sites.

 

[googolplex]

Err I don't see why anyone likes Netscape and doesn't like Mozilla. Mozilla = Netscape but also Mozilla > Netscape.

 

[azosx]

You Mac users are kidding yourselves. IE 5.2 is garbage compared to IE 5.5 or 6 for Windows or even Mozilla for OS X.

I wasn't going to download the update for Mac because I don't use IE in Mac, but after hearing such good things from this forum about 5.2 and all it's improvements, I became curious.

Honestly, I can't tell the difference. It is still terribly slow rendering web pages and feels like it belongs more in OS 9 than X. It still uses the Tasman rendering engine, developed in 1998. This browser is terribly out dated and renders garbled web pages more often than not.

I have to admit, it's never crashed, but it's never looked or felt right to me either.

I'm not anti-MS. I used IE 5.5 and 6 in Windows up until the Mozilla 1.0 release. I think Mozilla is just awesome for OS X as well.

All I can assume is you IE zealots prefer Aquafied icons over performance or capabilities.

I'm not impressed with OmniWeb 4.1 either. It's terribly slow as well compared to IE or Mozilla. It integrates with X nicely but who cares what the browser looks like when web pages load up looking like crap?

Seriously, someone who honestly believes IE is a better web browser in X, tell me why because I just can't see it. And please just don't tell me because it looks prettier.

As for people who dislike Netscape but adore Mozilla, I am one of them.

Yeah, Netscape is based on Mozilla and the gecko engine but it's the commercial things that AOL/Netscape does with the browser that annoys me.

You can't block popup ads, my book marks are filled with links I'll never use and AOL/Netscape releases weeks behind Mozilla with added features I don't consider improvements.

I think it's best to stick with the source before it becomes mutated by AOL.

 

[googolplex]

Well said, except I like nice interfaces though. Thats why chimera is good.

 

[azosx]

The first few builds of Chimera I tried worked pretty well.

The last time I tried it I downloaded a nightly build. It was really slow and crashed a lot.

Since it's Beta, I'm not going to hold that against it and nightly builds really aren't releases anyhow. The browser certainly has potential.

Can you download with it yet?

I think if Apple every made a web browser, I would like it to be "brushed steel" like the rest of the iApps and for it and to use the gecko rendering engine like Mozilla or Chimera.

Also, for you IE zealots. Head over to http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/demos.html
and watch your browser choke on 6 out of 7 W3C compliant web pages.

And for some additional fun, how about finding 6 or more web pages Mozilla will completely choke on.

 

[googolplex]

you can now download kind of with chimera

I would hope it wouldn't be brushed metal. A brushed metal look on a web browser would suck.

 

[themacko]

I agree with googs, brushed metal on a browser would not look very good at all.

 

[azosx]

Ah, but the new iChat is brushed metal and I think it looks bitchin!

There will be a brushed metal iBrowser, you just wait in see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

muhahahahahaha

 

[ddma]

They added a new one: Big Borther

 

[Koelling]

Notice how OmniWeb goes all the way to the edges (the website I mean, goes all the way to the edge of the window). If it were brushed metal you wouldn't get that and you would loose a good 10 pixels on each side of the page. Even Chimera has worthless space at the bottom of the screen cause the links have to show up there. I think all browsers should take the cue of Omni and only put up the bottom status bar when it's needed.

IF Apple makes a browser it had better not be brushed metal. I think they should stick to other, more interesting ventures and let the third parties wage this browser war.

 

[edX]

*Ed gets up from his imac and runs naked thru the streets, screaming in a primordial voice. ripping his hair out and begging for the pain to stop. He thinks: In what world do mac users proudly proclaim to use ie, or any m$ product? in what world do mac users, especially power users, stand up and shout "Mozilla" or "netscape"? Are these not the warning signs of the apocalypse? Can the four horsemen not be far behind? And for what - speed. Does no one remember the slogan of the past - speed kills? Once you have it, you have to have more of it, and the pusher man just smiles as you slowly destroy yourself. oh, it hurts to see friends thinking so little of their actions - their only concern being thier own immediate gratification. He releases a scream that makes hair stand on end and children run away. Finally, he falls to the ground, collapsing from the pain*

 

[googolplex]

Thats exactly what I think, except I think mac users should suppor things like Mozilla. But thats a different arguement between you and I . Mac users loving IE is wrong.

 

[azosx]

Everybody should support Mozilla and Open Source software.

Since 1998, our web experience has slowly been degraded because of IE's dominance over the market and use of non compliant web standards.

A lot of the blame can be attributed to AOL, who purchased Netscape and essentially killed it.

They didn't want a web browser in the Netscape acquisition, they wanted the largest web portal in the world and because of this, Navigator was only an after thought.

Luckly though AOL had the sense to fund what started out as a little project called Mozilla.

In 4 1/2 years, that little project turned into one of the largest Open Source software projects of all time. With over 1000 active developers, it had the support that other commercial software projects yet few developers were getting paid, most worked absolutely free.

Now we have this little jem that is as good or better than IE, runs on dozens of platforms and can be openly developed by anyone because it is Open Source, and not only to create web browsers based on it but potentially any type of program thinkable. Even MS could develop a browser based on Mozilla, though they'd have to keep the source open so the likelyhood of this is next to zero.

Don't be surprised if you see office applications based on Mozilla technology sometime in the future.

The most absurd argument I have heard for not supporting Mozilla is because it's development was funded by AOL, there for it to must be inherently evil.

That has to be the stupidest thinking I've ever seen come out of someone's head.

MS is considered evil yet donates hundreds of millions of dollars anually to AIDS research and childrens charities.

So should we shun these organizations and consider them evil as well because they are operating primarily on MS money? No, and neither should we shun Mozilla being born of AOL funding either.

You have a choice with Mozilla, you don't with IE. Use it or don't but never condemn it.

 

[googolplex]

Listen up Ed.

 

[edX]

oh, i'm listening Jeff. but just because azosx says it, doesn't make it so. I could add a link here to that thread, but what's the point. i'm not likely to change his mind or the minds of anyone who only sees that side of the picture.

How the internet is dominated isn't going to change much as long people see this whole issue as being like an american presidential election - vote for one of the big 2 or your vote will be wasted. all that will change is who is dominating it. the lessor of 2 evils is still evil.

my problem isn't really with the 'open source community' - a group who has contributed much to improve the computing experience. When programmers work for free, knowing what they are doing, then all is well. But i would guess that some of the people who put a lot of hard work into development of mozilla before netscape was bought by aol, feel pretty taken advantage of at this point. They worked for free and aol reaps the dividends. but the worse are users who naively contribute with their buggy bug reports to continue feeding the beast.

of course i could go on and on with my reasoning for "condemning" mozilla, but i haven't the time these days.

oh, one other point - donating a relatively miniscule amount of money to charities doesn't make anyone 'good'. It just means they are exercising some control over how some of the money they are going to be forced to part with will be spent.

 

[azosx]

I never said donating money to charities makes anyone good. I just pointed out that even though the source of the money may be "evil", they charity doesn't become inherently evil because of this.

As for "relatively miniscule amount of money", am I to assume your donations exceed 100 million dollars anually?

I've seen your previous Mozilla thread, and from what I've ascertained, it is complete BS.

Your ramblings on sound like nothing more than someone burned by AOL that is now hell bent on condemning them and anyone associated with them.

I hope you don't read, watch TV or use the telephone because it's very likely AOL/Time Warner has influence over many of those things in your life as well.

I'm not saying there should only be two choices and that this is an election between IE and Mozilla.

You totally have no concept of what Mozilla truly is.

Thanks to Mozilla we're likely to see dozens of choices in the future, not just a war being waged between two "super powers." How about heading to the URL below and seeing what choices already exist because of Mozilla.

http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/support.html

It is very likely that Mozilla itself will fade into obscurity and projects such as Chimera and Galeon will be the browser of choice on their respective platforms.

Your argument thus far, between now and your previous Mozilla rantings, has no bearing whatsoever on what Mozilla was truly developed for, choice.

As for the AOL/Netscape merger and any shake ups within the Mozilla development team, when have two major corporations ever merged without there being a loss of jobs and some unhappy patrons? Also, considering the Mozilla and any browser derived from it's technology is free, why shouldn't users contribute back and report bugs through the Feedback Agent?

It only helps the Mozilla source become more stable and other projects based on Mozilla to develop quicker. I'm sure they are the ones who appriciate all the help they can get the most, because unlike major corporations, they don't have millions of dollars to spend on development and fixing the bugs themselves.

They just want to give people a choice.

 

[googolplex]

I don't want to get into the disscussion, Ed. I just thoguht what was thead was said very well and you should listen to it . I've tried convincing you, but frankly, it is impossible

 

[azosx]

I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch. If you're happy with what you're using, keeping using it. That's the smartest thing anyone could ever do.

It just hate to see propaganda being spread that is completely untrue and utterly absurd.

 

[edX]

Originally posted by azosx
I never said donating money to charities makes anyone good. I just pointed out that even though the source of the money may be "evil", they charity doesn't become inherently evil because of this.

ok, i'll give you this one. that is what you said. but the way you said it seemed to imply that the companies did it all from the kindness of their hearts.

As for "relatively miniscule amount of money", am I to assume your donations exceed 100 million dollars anually?

do you know the meaning of the word 'relative'? do you know the term 'tax deduction'?

I've seen your previous Mozilla thread, and from what I've ascertained, it is complete BS.

most of what i write is fact. the other is my opinion. show me the 'BS'.

Your ramblings on sound like nothing more than someone burned by AOL that is now hell bent on condemning them and anyone associated with them.

so what do you do when somebody burns you? keep spending your money with them? help promote them? maybe go get a job working for them? or do you just sit quietly and let them keep burning everybody else?

I hope you don't read, watch TV or use the telephone because it's very likely AOL/Time Warner has influence over many of those things in your life as well.

part of my point exactly. nobody should have that much ablilty to control what is going on. not m$, not aol, not ibm, etc. convicne me it's all for the good of the world and freedom, and i'll shut up.

I'm not saying there should only be two choices and that this is an election between IE and Mozilla.

maybe i wasn't talking to you but to others at that point.

You totally have no concept of what Mozilla truly is.

whether you want to believe it or not, the political landscape around mozilla changed the day that aol bought netscape. What mozilla was and what it is and what it potentially can be are very different things.

Thanks to Mozilla we're likely to see dozens of choices in the future, not just a war being waged between two "super powers." How about heading to the URL below and seeing what choices already exist because of Mozilla.

http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/support.html

It is very likely that Mozilla itself will fade into obscurity and projects such as Chimera and Galeon will be the browser of choice on their respective platforms.

it is time for mozilla to slide into obscurity now and let its offspring arise.

Your argument thus far, between now and your previous Mozilla rantings, has no bearing whatsoever on what Mozilla was truly developed for, choice.

once more - what it was and what it is are different. i once ran with the mighty beast. it was proud, it was mighty, it was independent like netscape itself. it was the future. it was everything one could want from a browser in those days. but now that it's greatest triumphs are hustled away and incorporated into aol, it is proud no more.

As for the AOL/Netscape merger and any shake ups within the Mozilla development team, when have two major corporations ever merged without there being a loss of jobs and some unhappy patrons? Also, considering the Mozilla and any browser derived from it's technology is free, why shouldn't users contribute back and report bugs through the Feedback Agent?

aol users should!! aol supporters should!! anyone oppossed to aol probably shouldn't because they are only helping to solidfy aol's hold on the masses. and please tell me you don't really believe that free means there is no cost involved. Didn't your mother ever teach you there is no such thing as a free lunch? especially from aol!! (oh, wait. i forgot all those 'free trial' disks they send out. )

and my point from the beginning has only been that people who don't understand the connection between aol and mozilla should be aware before they make the choice to use it. mozilla hides this info deep in their website. many people do not know about it.

It only helps the Mozilla source become more stable and other projects based on Mozilla to develop quicker. I'm sure they are the ones who appriciate all the help they can get the most, because unlike major corporations, they don't have millions of dollars to spend on development and fixing the bugs themselves.

and back when those improvements went into supporting an indepent netscape, i was all for it. i sent my bugs in no matter how many crashes it cost me. but now there is a major corporation with billions of dollars benifitting from the hard work of the people who work for free. Frankly, if you want to be one of those people, go ahead. I DON'T

They just want to give people a choice.

well the concept of choices seems to be something we can agree on. i just think there are plenty of alternate choices available to us now. more than we have ever had before. there are 'sons of mozilla' that are worth supporting - even paying for. these new generation browsers deserve our support. aol has done so little to deserve any mac users support that it is almost criminal. so it is time to stop feeding daddy (or Big Brother) and start raising the kids up to where they should be. but that takes user participation. which they aren't getting while people stay loyal (for whatever reason) to ie, netscape and mozilla. please, use your choices.don't squander them.

also from azosx It just hate to see propaganda being spread that is completely untrue and utterly absurd.

please azosx, use quotes and show me something i have said that is not true or potentially true!! something you can actually prove is false.

as for absurdity - i was around when it would have been "absurd" to imagine that Bill gates would be the richest man in the world. absurd to imagine that m$ would dominate the world of computing the way they do now. I was around when it was absurd to think that aol would buy Time Warner. that aol would actually dominate the isp market and then go for more.

see, i've lived long enough to realize that today's absurdities become tomorrows realities if we allow them. (bday in profile is wrong, real dob is 8/9/57. been using macs since there were no windows and no aol)

please have an answer ready for me by the time i wake up because having it implied that i am a liar and a moron are the way i like to start my day

 

[gibbs]

oh my goodnesss..rant city
and all this over browsers ..look out folks we are in geek country! [lol]

I tried omniweb, its good, but slow. I havent tried 4.1 final but someone did comment that its faster now.

I use ie5.2, but I decided to try chimera. I downloaded their nightly trunk binary from their homepage, i think it was dated the 24th. It runs i'd say responsiveness wise about 3x faster than mozilla, and is totally stable for me. Of course, it doesnt have a lot of configuration options, but you couldnt PAY me to stop using this browser for everyday surfing. Its practically saved my life in that respect.

If you ask me, the main mozilla release has a lot to learn from chimera, and at this point I rate the browsers this way -

1) Chimera - Fast, stable, and simple.
2) This is a tie between omniweb 4.1 and ie5.2
3)Mozilla, slowest browser [tried 1.0 final and alpha 1.1] from my experience. Has a nice advantage of email/news/web all in one app though. Sorely needed.