Windows on an intel mac?

DevilRocks

Registered
Hey All!

Before the intel mac's were released everyone was wondering wheather or not it would be possible to install windowsXP on it as a dual boot os. Now that they are released i would like some feedback on wheather or not that is possible, if not, will there ever be another "virtual pc" that may run better since the cpu change?

thanks

-Thomas Johnson
 

nixgeek

Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
There is actually a bounty out there for whoever can get a working Windows installation booted on any of the Intel Macs. So far, no one has succeeded and it looks as though some people might have "bricked" their Intel Macs in the process of doing this.

Personally, I would like to see WINE really take off on the Intel Macs (and consequently on all other open source UNIX operating systems) without ever having to launch into a Windows environment.
 

ElDiabloConCaca

U.S.D.A. Prime
Yes, you can install Windows XP on an Intel Macintosh -- but it's more of a hack than I've ever seen, and it requires that you have a copy of Microsoft Vista around as well, plus you need to download some modified boot files from the internet (easily findable with Google).

So, for the average user, no, you cannot install Windows XP on the new Intel-based Macintosh computers. For those who have more experience with the "guts" of operating systems, it's completely possible.
 

ElDiabloConCaca

U.S.D.A. Prime
A "beta" version of windows for OS X? What exactly does that mean?

Microsoft Windows will always be Microsoft Windows, and no specific version of Windows will be produced that is solely meant to run on Intel-based Macintosh computers.

The new Intel-based Macintosh computers don't use anything that is specifically proprietary to the Mac computers -- they'll use EFI, which is a standard to succeed BIOS. Microsoft Vista will support EFI (XP does not), so Vista will more than likely be able to be installed on Intel-based Macintosh computers simply by booting from the install CD/DVD and installing it, just like on a normal PC.

Can you explain what you mean by, "beta version of windows for osx?" What do you mean, "for osx?"
 

RacerX

Old Rhapsody User
I think it should be noted that all PCs share one common design element... they are all designed to be Windows compatible. Microsoft puts out a specification of what qualifies as a Windows compatible system, and these companies build their systems with that in mind.

On that note... Apple Computer is not a maker of Windows compatible PCs. They had no reason to make a Windows compatible PC... and it would have been an extra step to make Macs Windows compatible.

What most people based their judgment on when predicting if the new Macs would run Windows was two cases... (1) the fact that people were able to install Windows on the developer kit systems from Apple, and (2) pretty much all Intel based systems are able to run Windows.

The first case was a bad basis because those systems were based only on what hardware that version of Mac OS X for Intel was able to run on at the time... and Mac OS X for Intel was maintained on PC (Windows) compatible systems up to that point. Why? Because Apple had never made an Intel based system and the original software Mac OS X for Intel was based on was designed for PC compatibles. Once Apple had a chance to design new hardware based on Intel processors, Mac OS X for Intel could be ported over pretty easily.

The second case ignores the fact that the makers of all these other systems set out to be Windows compatible. When Apple made systems based on Motorola's 68040 processor and NeXT was making systems based on the same processor, were we able to run System 7 on a NeXTstation and NEXTSTEP on a Quadra? No. Why? These systems had no reason to be compatible with the other company's operating systems and they took no steps to be compatible.

Further, it is to Apple's advantage to make non-Windows compatible systems. Why? Because if Mac OS X for Intel will only run on systems that are not compatible with Windows, and all other PC makers are making Windows compatible systems, then Mac OS X wouldn't be pirated and run on other maker's hardware.

The fact that the developer kit systems were Windows compatible, and that people pirated Mac OS X for those systems, was incentive enough to make sure that Apple hardware was different enough from PC compatibles to protect Mac OS X.

ElDiabloConCaca said:
Yes, you can install Windows XP on an Intel Macintosh...
To date, I have seen no credible evidence of anyone running any version of Windows as the main operating system on an Intel based Mac. But I have seen plenty of reports of people killing their systems trying to hack them.

As it stands right now, the EFI software on Macs is looking for specific files on a certain type of volume. There is no evidence that a version of Windows design for EFI is going to work on a Mac where EFI is configured to boot the Mac OS. In fact, EFI on Macs is set up to provide many of the same boot features that Macs had under Open Firmware... I know of no PC using EFI that has the boot options that Intel based Macs have.

Also, Microsoft has stated that Apple could have followed their specifications for Windows... I think it is safe to say that Microsoft is not going to be altering Windows to meet Apple's hardware specification any time in the near (or distant) future.
 

MisterMe

Registered
RacerX said:
....

On that note... Apple Computer is not a maker of Windows compatible PCs. They had no reason to make a Windows compatible PC... and it would have been an extra step to make Macs Windows compatible.

....
As an "old Rhapsody user," you know better than that. OpenSTEP and Rhapsody ran on stock Wintel machines. So too does Darwin now. The technical reason for not chosing basing Apple's Intel-based hardware on beige beige box PCs is that the BIOS is an anachronism of the 1980's. By its choice of EFI, Apple drags the Intel platform kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.
 

RacerX

Old Rhapsody User
MisterMe said:
As an "old Rhapsody user," you know better than that. OpenSTEP and Rhapsody ran on stock Wintel machines. So too does Darwin now.
What I know is that NeXT made NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP for PC compatibles by design. And I know that Apple made versions of Rhapsody, Darwin and Mac OS X for PC compatibles, again, by design.

But I also know that throwing a bunch of parts together that happen to be the same as those in one type of system doesn't make it compatible with that system from an operating system point of view. Operating system software needs to be tied more intimately with hardware than any other software.

But starting from scratch, Apple had no reason to model their hardware after PC compatibles... and plenty of reason to not follow that model. An Intel processor in a computer does not make that computer a PC compatible system. And I know that the version of Mac OS X v10.4.x that ran on the developer kit systems will not run on Intel based Macs.

And while Apple said that they would not do anything to stop people from trying to install Windows on their systems, Apple was going to do everything in their power to prevent Mac OS X for those new systems from being able to be installed on PC compatible hardware. The easiest way to do that... don't make Macs compatible with PCs.



But to take the example of the NeXTstation and the Quadra a few steps further...we can look at what both systems were made up of beyond the 68040 processor. Both systems used SCSI, both used 72 pin SIMMs, both used ADB keyboards and mice... but they were not made to be compatible with each other, and in the end that was all that mattered.
 

g/re/p

I can haz cigar?
What i want to know is this: when will i be able to run linux on my electric toaster????
 

mdnky

[Bobs/Prog/Design:~] mod%
Staff member
Mod
g/re/p said:
What i want to know is this: when will i be able to run linux on my electric toaster????
PPC versions of Linux run on PowerBooks. All you have to do is run something processor intensive after placing a piece of bread under the laptop. :D
 

DevilRocks

Registered
There are many distro's of linux for ppc processors, I am not sure about the intel mac's though they are new. Right now i have Ubuntu linux for ppc, amd64, and regular x86 computers. You can download a copy of any linux online or order copies of ubuntu for free with free shipping so you pay nothing. That's what i did, i ordered 45 cd's and got 45 cd's, it took me like 6 months though. What the hell am i gonna do with 45 copies of linux?
 

Viro

Registered
DevilRocks said:
...order copies of ubuntu for free with free shipping so you pay nothing. That's what i did, i ordered 45 cd's and got 45 cd's, it took me like 6 months though. What the hell am i gonna do with 45 copies of linux?
The Ubuntu foundation is unique in its approach to Linux advocacy. They freely provide the physical CDs (including postage) for anyone willing to try out Linux. I think it is the pinnacle of idiocy for people to abuse such good will.
 

fryke

Moderator
Staff member
Mod
Rrrrright. Back on topic, please...
 

Lt Major Burns

"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
why do linux geeks feel like it's their preogative to get their frankenstein's monster of an OS to run on everything?

i mean, have some restraint!

also, yes... back on topic. i managed to get Windows to run (nearly) on my parents Dell. it was a bit flakey, and it crashed occasionally, but i understand it's not that compatible with PC's.
 

nixgeek

Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
Lt Major Burns said:
why do linux geeks feel like it's their preogative to get their frankenstein's monster of an OS to run on everything?...
Umm...because we can?? ;)

Anyways, so far I haven't heard anything about natively running Windows on the Intel Macs, but I have heard that Windows on VMware on Intel Macs flies compared to running Windows on VirtualPC on a PPC Mac. (Trying to stay on topic after that rude comment about my other favorite OS... :D)
 

tomdkat

Registered
Has anyone tried a Linux "live CD" on an Intel-based Mac?

Peace...
 

nixgeek

Mac of the SubGenius! :-)
tomdkat said:
Has anyone tried a Linux "live CD" on an Intel-based Mac?

Peace...
As far as I know, there aren't many that are running Linux as of yet. I think there are a couple but i don't remember which distros, but if you think you'll be able to take any x86 Live CD out there and boot it on the Intel Macs you might be unpleasantly surprised. :eek:
 

CharlieJ

R.I.P bobw
DevilRocks said:
Hey All!

Before the intel mac's were released everyone was wondering wheather or not it would be possible to install windowsXP on it as a dual boot os. Now that they are released i would like some feedback on wheather or not that is possible, if not, will there ever be another "virtual pc" that may run better since the cpu change?

thanks

-Thomas Johnson
Putting Windows on a mac is a form of bullying ad ive been bellied and its not nice :(
 
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