Apple - two words to consider: "Home Automation"

Hi Chevy!

Thanks for this - but can you help explain this for those of us without a Star Federation Class A Engineering Certification? :)

It is interesting that they show a music sharing device, but I don't see why the Mac and iTunes can't BE that music sharing device. Know what I mean? I have played around with some of these boxes that cost $2000 and they let you do the following:

A. Import your CD collection to the Hard drive, complete with track names and cover art and make play lists.
B. Access many online radio channels.
C. Access it via remote control devices and listen over home audio/video network.

Except for C, it sounds like iTunes on a Mac to me!
 
I was watching tactical to practical last night on the history channel, and they showcased a home automation app that was running on OS X. They said the name, but in my glorious wisdom, I have forgotten it. Looked more to be a security thing anyway (was hooked up to security cameras), maybe not full automation. If i can remember the name i'll post it.
 
karavite,

sorry, even if I work now in electronics, I studied physics... and my title is more research oriented than engineering. that's just for the small story. and today I do marketing... and what I'll try to explain here is more Product Marketing than engineering.

What is the problem with Mac (iTunes) and other cube-like PCs ? The customer considers it's a computer. Of course you can listen to your music (I'm listening to The Turtles right now), watch your DVDs, or even watch/record TV with a minimal extra hardware. I can remote control iTunes and iDVD with my T68i cell phone. The screen of my 17" iMac is not much smaller than the 22" screen of my B&O TV set. But if the TV set, the CD player, the FM radio are though from the beginning to be used just for entertainment purpose, the iMac is not: it has a keyboard, a mouse... when I connect a peripheral, I do that over USB/firewire (1 to several) or Ethernet (which required some complex addressing before Rendez-Vous). So the iMac can be used as a digital entertainment center... but it is NOT an entertainment center.

Now, imaging the same iMac without a wired keyboard and mouse, but with a remote control, starting by default in a mode where TV is the input, switching to DVD or CD when you insert one, one key press launches iTunes... the Bluetooth keyboard being optional. No multi-user (at least not visible). Imagine that when you want to connect another peripheral, you just plug it and it recognizes it automatically (Rendez-Vous). It still connects to Internet via Ethernet for access to CD databases, to iTMS, to Pay-per-View TV... this is Home Automation (in the American Style... in Europe "Home Automation" is more security/comfort oriented, what you name Building Automation, like HVAC control, video surveillance). A Bluetooth enabled 20" iMac is a good start if the system starts directly in full page iTunes with possibility to go to DVD player or iTV/QuickTime or iChat, always full screen like you do with your stereo (you don't play the movie on your home theater at the same time you listen to a CD).

So they have the hardware (for long time), they have the software low level routine... they still must enable the top level application layer so that we feel we use a stereo, or a TV, not a computer (even if it's a Mac).
 
Chevy, at that point it will cease being a Mac, even if it is in the technical sense.
 
dave17lax said:
I was watching tactical to practical last night on the history channel, and they showcased a home automation app that was running on OS X. They said the name, but in my glorious wisdom, I have forgotten it. Looked more to be a security thing anyway (was hooked up to security cameras), maybe not full automation. If i can remember the name i'll post it.
Click to expand...

Indigo?
http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/
 
karavite said:
P.S. Some people seem to think I am being a ridorkulous dreamer here, but look what MS is doing - email, the web and photos on a TV. http://www.msntv.com/Default.aspx

Come back to this post in a year or so and tell me MS and others won't expand this to all kinds of media and communication with all kinds of devices - movies, radio, music, home theater/audio and PCs. Apple could do it so much better.
Click to expand...

Tivo with the home media option will do a bit of that and more now...it's getting there.

Now if only my wife would consent to my spending a ridiculous amount of money on said TiVo setup...
 
Hey Chevy - I wrote a big reply to you, but seemed to botch posting it! What I said was first, thanks for your post and second I do appreciate what you are saying about the marketing aspect of things. It is critical. What gets me is I go see and play with $2000 audio servers (like those by Integra) and quickly realize that minus a little networking software and control, the darn thing isn't much more than my Mac and iTunes in a box that looks like more than a stereo than my Mac. Just like you said, but in a way I am coming at it from the opposite perspective (and probably the opposite of most consumers).

Read the description of this thing and tell me how close it is to a Mac running iTunes: http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?class=Nettune&m=NAS-2.3&p=i

Still, maybe marketing people should listen to me too! I am a audio/computer junkie and big spender! I have spent $10,000 on home audio this year! Still, I will not spend $2000 for an audio server which is basically a dumb downed and propierity version of a computer with a program very similar to iTunes while my Mac's dual 1 GHz processers basically sit around doing nothing all day. Those little puppies need to earn their keep! :)

However, has anyone checked out Sailing Clicker? http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11007

Apparently you can use it to control/communicate with your Mac from a Palm or Sony Ericsson phone (via Bluetooth). At the same time, there is software for Sailing Clicker to control iTunes - http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19018

Not quite the best option (to have little Palm pilots all over the house to control music listening...) but it shows that you can control iTunes and Macs remotely!!! Just a couple of little pieces to add and it is all there! Seems like the door is wide open to create a little tablet device/PDA that would have some dedicated apps (email, web...) and/or act as a contoller/client via Bluetooth to my Mac(s).
 
cdavis16 said:
Now if only my wife would consent to my spending a ridiculous amount of money on said TiVo setup...
Click to expand...

cdavis - I feel your pain!!! :)

Perhaps the biggest factor standing in the way of complete home automation, video, audio, computers is not technology and protocols, but a serious issue known to home automation experts as the WAF. Yes, overcoming the Wife Acceptance Factor is perhaps the greatest challenge for IT and consumer electronics!!!

Utlizing your existing Macs potential as a home media control center could be the best strategy for countering the all powerful WAF!
 
Fresh from O'Reilly MacDevCenter: Home Automation on Mac OS X.
The only thing that really bugs me about the current X10 hardware out there is it's size. That stuff seems to be so huge, I can't imagine ever putting it into my house.
I can't wait until some kind of more efficient automation system comes along, like a bluetooth system where you pair stuff in your house with a central server which you can program. Maybe something more like a central power server somewhere which can scramble a 220v or 110v signal and beam it wirelessly... No cord electricity.. There could be hotspots in café's downtown that you could sit and recharge your laptop while you worked all wirelessly. That would be cool!
 
Wireless POWER is impossible, barring the use of large induction coils or magnets, neither of which are particularly good for computers what with the tendency of magnetic fields to format data-storage devices, and large quantities of components themselves being magnetic...
 
texanpenguin said:
Wireless POWER is impossible, barring the use of large induction coils or magnets, neither of which are particularly good for computers what with the tendency of magnetic fields to format data-storage devices, and large quantities of components themselves being magnetic...
Click to expand...

They have a solution ! http://www.mobilewise.com/
 
mr. k said:
Fresh from O'Reilly MacDevCenter: Home Automation on Mac OS X.
The only thing that really bugs me about the current X10 hardware out there is it's size. That stuff seems to be so huge, I can't imagine ever putting it into my house.
I can't wait until some kind of more efficient automation system comes along, like a bluetooth system where you pair stuff in your house with a central server which you can program. Maybe something more like a central power server somewhere which can scramble a 220v or 110v signal and beam it wirelessly... No cord electricity.. There could be hotspots in café's downtown that you could sit and recharge your laptop while you worked all wirelessly. That would be cool!
Click to expand...

Hey Mr. K - not sure if you know this, but not all X 10 devices are bulky wall plug in modules. You can replace your existing wall outlets and switches with X 10 switches for a much "cleaner" look to it all. I think there are many advantages to X 10 - the use of the existing electrical system as a network is brilliant. I don't think every manufacturer of electrical devices (lamps, lights) could afford to add bluetooth technology to such cheap devices and since you only want to turn these on or off and/or dim them, all that can be handled perfectly by X 10 right here and now.

As for the electrical wireless thing - I'll leave that up to others. I already have enough static in my hair! :)
 
chevy said:
Here is the difference ! (see attachement)
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the outputs! Okay, you got me there! :)

Well, once again my own geekyness is an issue in my view of things - my G4 is hooked up to a 6 channel audio mixer, digital effects processors, CD player, guitar preamp, an old but trusty Marantz 2 channel home theater AV receiver, two awsome Tannoy studio monitor speakers and other gizmos for audio in and out and a Dazzle AV bridge for video in and out to an external DVD, VCR, camcorder and 20" Sony TV! (not to mention a USB X10 controller and, a USB infra red controller for X10 too and a wireless FM transmitter for outputting stereo audio to my other audio system in the living room). None of that is exactly standard equipment with a Mac!!! Talk about needing more wireless solutions!!! :)

Still, newer G5 Macs come with optical audio connections and I remember my old 1994 (!!!!!) Quadra 660 AV had built in S-Video ports in and out. Apple, or some 3rd party card vendor like ATI, could certainly do more for the "connectability" issues!
 
Yes, you CAN do it (I've done it with my old G3 and a $10 amplifier I bought on the street with even older loudspeakers)... but this is just for geeks like us, nothing for the masses.
 
Hey Chevy, still while us geeks ply away (and it is fun isn't it - think how much Apple could learn from our exploration...), there is a movement for the masses in home theater PCs. I often browse the home theater and audio magazines at the local bookstore and more and more "mass appeal" products are on the horizon if not already out. Whether Apple should or shouldn't invest too much in this area, (I sound like a broken record now), I still think they could do it better than anyone. Also, to continue the broken record loop, it was Jobs and Apple who said they wanted to make the Mac the "digital hub," not me!
 
Somewhat related - somebody finally made a universal remote that my wife can use without wanting to kill me whenever she wants to switch from our DVD player to cable and/or to music (and all the associated input/output changes via the AV receiver). http://www.harmonyremote.com/

It works with Macs too (for the initial set up) via a usb port and software and a web connection to "tell" the remote all about your set up (brand/model of TV, AV receiver, CD player, DVD player, cable box...) and then sets up easy to use settings such as "Watch TV", Watch a Movie"... without having to program macros. This will be great for the "Wife Acceptance Factor" WAF I referred to above. For example on my ROTEL remote in order to switch to DVD from cable, my wife has to remember to:

1. Hit Audio (to make the remote undertstand that the following commands are for the AV receiver).
2. Hit Macro then DVD.
3. The macro (which I programmed) then switches the AV input to Video 1 from Video 3, switches to the TV to switch the input from S video (input 1) to component (input 2) and a few other things.

On the new Harmony remote she can just hit "Watch a Movie" and it is all taken care of. Very "Apple-esque" in its approach by answering the question, "What is it people want to do?"
 
well, after hours of searching for a powerlinc 1132u that works with 240v (as recommended for use with Indigo - which looks like a good interface to me) I've just heard that it's only for use on 110v...

I still think Home Automation is the future (but how far away is it for those outside North America?! :( )
 
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