iPod Touch: An iPod & Computer In Your Pocket?

Amie said:
Hmm ... OK. :(

My thinking now has changed slightly. I thought I could just be at a store, restaurant, the beach, etc. and whip out my iPod Touch and start surfing the Web. Guess not. I mean, I already have a laptop for Internet and an iPod Nano for music. Can you think of any reason(s) why I'd want an iPod Touch? I already bring my laptop and iPod with me to wi-fi hotspots like coffeehouses, cafes, home, etc. ... what's the advantage (if any) of owning an iPod Touch? I'm thinking, if anything, the iPod Touch would be more cumbersome to surf the 'Net than a laptop.

Just trying to figure out if I really need/want one. Thoughts, comments are greatly appreciated.
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I'm kinda with you on that, I have a MacBook and the old white nano. So, right now I have a chance of getting a $200 chair or a ipod touch, i'm going for the chair. The only real reason why I would get the iPod touch would be for the internet, and maybe the video, it's just to bulky for carrying with you just for music. Thats why I hate the new nanos, there just too fat.
 
fryke said:
That article is, however, just speculation so far. Wait for confirmation before buying an iPod touch if you plan on using iPhone's missing apps on the touch. Check this: http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/15/the-state-of-the-itouch-jailbreak/ ... Not looking so good.
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Thanks, Fryke. By posting that link, you've introduced me to what looks like a good overall Web site. Hadn't been to that one before. So, thanks! :)

Now, about this "jailbreak" stuff... I posted a link about it a few posts up. I was totally thrown by it. I didn't realize that one had to do this jailbreak thing with their iPod Touch just to be able to add on the third-party apps. I don't like that one bit! Sounds dangerously like altering the machine (and taking a huge risk of messing things up). Is it???
 
Amie said:
Thanks, Fryke. By posting that link, you've introduced me to what looks like a good overall Web site. Hadn't been to that one before. So, thanks! :)

Now, about this "jailbreak" stuff... I posted a link about it a few posts up. I was totally thrown by it. I didn't realize that one had to do this jailbreak thing with their iPod Touch just to be able to add on the third-party apps. I don't like that one bit! Sounds dangerously like altering the machine (and taking a huge risk of messing things up). Is it???
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If you like the TUAW site, you should check out there podcasts.
 
Amie said:
Sounds dangerously like altering the machine (and taking a huge risk of messing things up). Is it???
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In short: yes.

Neither the iPhone nor the iPod touch has real third-party app support. The only way to add functionality to either is through web apps. For those unfamiliar with the term, "web apps" are those things you don't use on your desktop computer because they all suck. ;) (I kid, I kid. Web apps are like Dashboard widgets, more or less.)

Everyone assumes that Apple will open up eventually. My theory is that they want total control at first so as to avoid bad press related to buggy third-party apps.

I would reeeeeally want an iPod Touch or iPhone if they supported third-party apps. There's just no way all my needs will ever be met be one single company. I think the same is true of most people.
 
Mikuro said:
In short: yes.

Neither the iPhone nor the iPod touch has real third-party app support. The only way to add functionality to either is through web apps. For those unfamiliar with the term, "web apps" are those things you don't use on your desktop computer because they all suck. ;) (I kid, I kid. Web apps are like Dashboard widgets, more or less.)

Everyone assumes that Apple will open up eventually. My theory is that they want total control at first so as to avoid bad press related to buggy third-party apps.

I would reeeeeally want an iPod Touch or iPhone if they supported third-party apps. There's just no way all my needs will ever be met be one single company. I think the same is true of most people.
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I don't understand. Why would Apple allow third-party apps to be added on to their computers but not their iPhones and iPods?
 
I think that Apple will need to, at the very least, provide the same feature set from the iPhone on the iPod touch or risk seeing a high percentage of the iPod touches on the market being modded and hacked.

If it were just a couple of little projects out there trying to get Linux or Mame running, then the issue could be safely ignored. Most users don't care much about this kind of hacking.

This case is different, though. There are a lot of potential Touch owners who want the feature set that they've already seen on the iPhone - Maps, Mail, Stocks, Weather - and are annoyed that Apple have decided not to provide these. People are quite likely to try a hack to get Mail working. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see 30-40% of iPod Touches shipped in the first three months being hacked to run these apps.

I think Apple need to reconsider their approach to iPod touch software. I can understand that they don't want to have to support Mail.app on every iPod touch. But they need to find a happy halfway point; such as allowing people to install additional apps should they wish to.
 
Again, that's what I don't understand: Why would Apple allow Mac owners to install what they want (i.e., third-party apps) but not iPhone and iPod Touch owners??? Why? What's the difference? Am I missing something? I mean, if you can do it to your computer without modifying/hacking/jailbreaking and all that jazz, why must you do it that way with iPhones/iPods?
 
Amie said:
... What's the difference? Am I missing something? I mean, if you can do it to your computer without modifying/hacking/jailbreaking and all that jazz, why must you do it that way with iPhones/iPods?
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Ah, there's easy file system access on Macs (desktop and laptops). It's a simple matter to copy files into the file system. The Macs with OS X have a stable installer, and lots of apps to easily install.
iPhones, and now the Touch, do not allow such simple access to the file system. That's what the hacks are mostly about - access to the directories and etc.

I don't expect that situation to last too long. Someone will come up with an effective installer. Apple already announced that the OS on the 'Phone and the touch is a substantial portion of the OS X code.
 
I think you're giving Apple too much credit, DeltaMac. The only reason simple access is not possible is because Apple has not cared to make it so. There are no technical barriers here, as the quick hacks prove.

Amie, I've been asking that same question since I first heard of the lack of third-party support. The "official" reason given by Apple and Steve Jobs is that it's for stability, but I think that's bunk. Again, if desktop computers can be stable with third-party apps, why not a handheld computer running basically the same OS? It's just an excuse on Apple's part.

That said, people are stupid, and even if allowing third-party apps wouldn't make it insecure, it might make it LOOK insecure and create a PR mess. It would also make it look complicated, and Apple's selling point is simplicity. It would also make it more like a PDA, and thus draw comparisons to other PDAs out there, which would probably not be good for Apple. They don't want to explode into the PDA market with a sub-par product; if anything, they'll creep in, and by the time they're there the product will be good enough to compare favorably to the competition.

In short, I think the decision is all about business and marketing, not technology.

Again, I expect them to loosen up over time. But I'm not holding my breath on that. It's possible they'll do something similar to what they did with iPod games and control who gets to develop them, and collect royalties from those companies (kind of like the video game console makers). I certainly hope that's not what they're planning, but who knows?

Right now it's all speculation. I, for one, wouldn't buy an iPod Touch or iPhone until this issue is settled. My faith in Apple is not that high, and flexibility is too important to me. Of course, that's just me. Clearly I'm not in Apple's target audience.
 
When Apple introduced the iPhone and said "no 3rd party apps but Web 2.0 apps", they also claimed they'd upgrade the software features over time. Which led to speculation that the iPhone would, over time, _become_ more PDA-like. Talk of iChat, talk of a better Notes app etc. We've seen one addition so far, and it's iTunes WiFi Store. That's great, but it's primarily a service that helps Apple make more money more quickly. Right now it doesn't seem like Apple's coming true about extending the functionality. They could've easily added one or the other widget to the iPhone by now. They haven't. Teasing.
If you get an iPhone or iPod touch, either be aware that the functionality it has today is basically the one you're going to get - or be ready to go with some scary hacks. I think the iPhone and iPod touch still have a lot of appeal, but I wish Apple more clearly had a path of expanding the functionality. The iPhone would be a _great_ PDA. The hardware's there. It's software that's missing.

Then again: Maybe they're concentrating on finishing Leopard now. (They said Leo was postponed because of iPhone's OS development.) That can only be a good thing.
 
fryke said:
Then again: Maybe they're concentrating on finishing Leopard now. (They said Leo was postponed because of iPhone's OS development.) That can only be a good thing.
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Right, 'cause at this time the only major selling point for me is the potential of Core Animation...

The iPhone is already the best PDA on the market without trying. Apple will wake up -eventually- and smell the proliferation -and cashflow-.
 
BTW, does anyone know when Apple stores will actually sell the iPod Touch in the store? Without special ordering or any of that mess. I just want to walk in and play with one on display, then if I decide to buy one, I want to be able to pay for it and leave with it on the same day.
 
My friend went to Vegas about two weeks ago and picked one up from an Apple Store... brought it back with him as proof. Maybe they were confused. :p
 
Ipod availability has changed a lot within just two weeks. Check at your local Apple store now. You'll likely be able to hold that Touch if you want to... (touch that Hold? - touch that Touch?) you know what I mean. lol
 
Qion said:
My friend went to Vegas about two weeks ago and picked one up from an Apple Store... brought it back with him as proof. Maybe they were confused. :p
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No, different Apple stores got them in at different times. Your friend was lucky. Guess I'll be making (another) trip to my local Apple store soon...
 
DeltaMac said:
Ipod availability has changed a lot within just two weeks. Check at your local Apple store now. You'll likely be able to hold that Touch if you want to... (touch that Hold? - touch that Touch?) you know what I mean. lol
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LOL :D

I'm going back this weekend. Gonna see if they got them in yet...
 
fryke said:
When Apple introduced the iPhone ... they also claimed they'd upgrade the software features over time. ... We've seen one addition so far, and it's iTunes WiFi Store.
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Also, YouTube was announced since then. I wouldn't be surprised to see Adobe or Amazon's eBooks added in the next 12 months, either.

I think there is a big gap between what customers think they want and what they'll actually buy. When Apple finally caved in to all those people begging for games on iPod, and licensed a number of games, the total number of downloads was pathetically low, in spite of a price-point around a quarter of that for the same game on other platforms. People begged for it, and then when it was released, decided they didn't really care anyway.

Apple are going to focus their software development efforts where they're going to add the most value to the product. iPhone ships with the software it needed in order to be viable, and nothing more. iPod touch is the same; they've got it out the door with the features it needs to be a sales success, and anything else can wait until later.

So where do I think they're going next? iPhone will get iChat before it gets MMS messaging; its simply more beneficial to Apple to do iChat first. MMS messaging will come pretty quickly though, as the carriers will be insisting on it (more ways to use the phone equals more usage of the phone equals more money for the carriers). iPod touch will eventually get some of the apps that are already finished for iPhone. Mail.app for iPod touch will be an optional install that will come with a big disclaimer that it is not a supported application. eBooks will be available for purchase through iTunes - the structure is already there; I have a few PDF-casts already, all the touch needs is a custom-made PDF browser.
 
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