World Cup 2006

[Esquilinho]

I didn't see the game, but I heard CH vs. UKR was the most boring game of the competition…

rhisiart: Blasphemy!!! Well, they CAN but they WON'T!
We've beat them before. And I just remember that in Euro 2000 England was winning by 2-0 and we ended up winning by 3-2

The problem is that everyone wants to get even (Holland and England) because we beat them in Euro 2004! Anyway, even if we win, I thing we'll never beat Brazil or France…

 

[fryke]

France? Those old fa....ntastic players? ... Seriously: Any team still in the game can be beaten. Saw Argentina play Mexico? Surely, Portugal can play them as well. Saw Brazil at all? They're not on top of their game. Italy? Pu-leeze! England's not the best they ever were, either and I hear France was almost beaten by a team from a small country in the heart of Europe with a red flag with a white cross in the middle. I certainly view Portugal as one of the better remaining teams. The one team which I seriously doubt can be beaten right now: Germany. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

 

[bbloke]

I think England can beat Portugal (sorry Esquilinho), but then they will face either Brazil or France.

On paper, I certainly think the England team can beat Portugal. The current England team certainly should be, in theory, one of the best squads this country's had in many years. Now, the only issue is whether or not the stuttering team can actually perform properly on the night!

Final? Argentina vs. Brazil (with the latter winning).

Yup, this is what I've been expecting too, although Argentina vs Germany will be a tough one to call. I'm a bit torn between thinking Argentina or Germany will win, especially as Germany has the home crowd behind them. Hmmmm...

The problem is that everyone wants to get even (Holland and England) because we beat them in Euro 2004! Anyway, even if we win, I thing we'll never beat Brazil or France…

Ah yes, I remember that...

Seriously: Any team still in the game can be beaten. Saw Argentina play Mexico?

Indeed. I remember thinking Mexico made Argentina look very beatable! This was when I started to wonder if Germany would beat Argentina, actually.

Surely, Portugal can play them as well. Saw Brazil at all? They're not on top of their game.

True, but Brazil can beat teams 3-0 when not playing their best.

Italy? Pu-leeze! England's not the best they ever were, either

I agree that they are not playing their best, although the squad seems excellent in theory. I remember one person joking Sven's been impressive: he's been able to put together a side that is equal to less than the sum of the parts!

and I hear France was almost beaten by a team from a small country in the heart of Europe with a red flag with a white cross in the middle. I certainly view Portugal as one of the better remaining teams. The one team which I seriously doubt can be beaten right now: Germany. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

I hope you're wrong too...

 

[bbloke]

And the referees?

Your objective opinions. Please.

OK, I think some referees have been good, and some have been bad. Graham Poll was certainly dreadful when he gave the Croatian player three yellow cards before he was sent off... and Poll paid for it by being sent home now.

The Russian referee, Ivanov, was diabolical. The game between Portugal and The Netherlands became very bad tempered and was just awful, with those 16 yellow cards and 4 four cards. The players were badly behaved, but I think Ivanov made things difficult for himself when he started giving out too many cards and therefore, in the interests of consistency, could not stop. I was not impressed by the referee ("Sanchez?") who was present in England's game against Paraguay; even the commentators were beginning to make comments about him.

There is also some inconsistency: I think it was the referee between Mexico and Argentina (?) who didn't send someone off for being the last defender who took out a forward going for goal, and yet a different ref in different game did send someone off for something similar (sorry, I can't remember the details). This sort of thing is to be expected, but doesn't give an impression of "justice" in the tournament, though.

In general, though, I think the referees are simply in a very difficult position. For the most part, I think FIFA's stricter legislation has made life tougher for the referees, as it has added confusion and it has also made players more likely to take up acting in order to try to get opponents sent off, reasonably safe in the knowledge they are unlikely to get a card for their deceit. This makes it worth the risk for many... Throughout the competition, there have been some good decisions and there have been some bad decisions. Most refs have probably been reasonably OK under the circumstances, although there are some howlers from time to time...

 

[Rhisiart]

The Russian referee, Ivanov, was diabolical. The game between Portugal and The Netherlands became very bad tempered and was just awful, with those 16 yellow cards and 4 four cards. The players were badly behaved, but I think Ivanov made things difficult for himself when he started giving out too many cards and therefore, in the interests of consistency, could not stop.

If I had been in Ivanov's shoes, I would have sent all 22 players off.

P.S. Apparently (so it said on the news yesterday), two England fans parked their Car in Köln and then forgot where they had left it. After a fustrating search they approached a German policeman and asked for his help. Thankfully the two lads had written down the name of the street ... Einbahn Strasse!

 

[fryke]

bbloke: I hope the English have by now seen all the footage about that game in 2004 and seen that the Swiss ref was perfectly right...? That was a shame, how the British reacted and how the press called to _weapons_ against a ref who was _right_.

 

[lilbandit]

Sepp Blatter is a disgrace and a running joke at this stage, the guy who is ultimately responsible for the World Cup comes out criticising his own refs. It's not fair to them or the players. I'm not 100% sure (please correct me!) but due to the international nature of the world cup, there is a broad spectrum of nationalities represented in the ref lineup. With all due respect, some domestic leagues are not up to providing refs equipped with the expertise at this level. I also think that the players need to take a long look at themselves. Diving, feigning injury, headbutts and timewasting don't help the situation. Video evidence is needed and an open system similar to American football or rugby would allow for transparency and the players would know that they couldn't get away with misconduct. It's got to the stage that players are so good at cheating that the ref can't tell exactly what happened in a split second incident.

 

[bbloke]

bbloke: I hope the English have by now seen all the footage about that game in 2004 and seen that the Swiss ref was perfectly right...?

Perfectly right in which respect? I do remember there was a disallowed goal which caused a lot of irritation in particular (it's hard to say whether that was due to only bias by the English fans or whether it is because the English game tends to be a bit more physical by nature, or perhaps maybe a bit of both), but there was quite a number of decisions, not just one, that annoyed people.

That was a shame, how the British reacted and how the press called to _weapons_ against a ref who was _right_.

Did they actually call for weapons to be used against Urs Meier? I'm genuinely asking the question, as I don't remember that and would be surprised if they did. I agree that The Sun went too far by planting an English flag outside his home, though........

 

[bbloke]

I also think that the players need to take a long look at themselves. Diving, feigning injury, headbutts and timewasting don't help the situation. Video evidence is needed and an open system similar to American football or rugby would allow for transparency and the players would know that they couldn't get away with misconduct. It's got to the stage that players are so good at cheating that the ref can't tell exactly what happened in a split second incident.

I absolutely agree, well said.

I think video evidence should be used to judge whether or not people are acting. I also think players should be ashamed of themselves for trying to fool referees. While I know I can be harsh on referees at times, I do have some sympathy as a lot of players do try to mislead them.

I remember an Argentinian journalist talking about how this sort of "gamesmanship" is something the Argentinians take pride in, a sort of cheekiness, of trying to fool the referee, and how it is all good fun and part of the game. To me: no, it's not, it's called cheating.

 

[lilbandit]

best of luck on Saturday bbloke, every chance of beating Portugal.

 

[fryke]

bbloke: Well, that weapons thing wasn't meant literally by me. ... I just know that The Sun did not only plant the flag, they also called him names etc. and I think they _did_ go far too far back then. And IIRC, it really was perfectly reasonable to decide how he did. But that's all in the past, I guess. We have four nice games (I hope) coming up. And my _personal_ guess is that we'll have Germany winning vs. Argentina, Portugal winning vs. England (that's coloured by me being a Portugal fan, though), Italy winning vs. Ukraine and Brazil beating France.

 

[reed]

bbloke.
What a riot the "blind" ref. and the dog. Portugal has a lot yellow cards. Good for England. However, they have some good reserve players, but they have to watch their Ps & Qs. Unless things get really "delicate."
I see England in spades.
Good luck.

For you Football experts: The fans "without illusions" here think they can toss Brazil Saturday. Any bets?

 

[bbloke]

Thanks, lilbandit and reed.

As for the ole Urs Meier story, I know The Sun ran some sort of hate campaign against Urs Meier, which I certainly would not condone. The funny thing is I remember less about that disallowed English goal than some. I actually just remember being stunned watching decision after decision go against England, and so the disallowed goal, erm, didn't surprise me in the end, as it just felt part of the whole episode. I was watching the game with people of various nationalities (including Dutch, Italian, and Russian, of those that I remember), and I remember them commenting during and after the game on how atrocious they thought the refereeing was. Knowing them, they wouldn't have said that if they didn't mean it. As it happens, the Italian guy recently recalled the match and was saying again how awful he thought Urs Meier was, and he even thought the English goal should have stood!

But, anyway...

It is indeed in the past... I don't look back on that match as being OK or think Urs Meier did a good job, but I guess one moves on and just accepts that these things sometimes happen in the game, as annoying as they can be at the time.

In the UK, Budweiser have mini ads during commercial breaks, which I find quite amusing. They always have two (phoney) American sports commentators trying to be enthusiastic but not understanding the game at all. In one of these ads, they had one commentator say something like: It's incredible, the crowd have really got behind this man. He's been a rock. The crowd have even been chanting... "The referee's an anchor."

I think all of the Quarter Finals will be tough. Any team has a chance, actually. Brazil could be assumed to stroll through, but, on the other hand, France did surprisingly well against Spain. Germany vs. Argentina will be interesting... Everyone is also rather expecting Italy to beat Ukraine, but it might not be so straight forwards.

 

[fryke]

Watching GER vs. ARG, I have to say that Germany just shouldn't win this... And Maxi Rodr. _should_ have gotten that penalty... Ah. The refs again, eh? ... I think it _always_ depends on how you're viewing a game. Even if you don't root for one team, it can simply _look_ like the ref whistles against one team, but that could be because that team actually _plays_ in unfair ways. Of _course_ they would make signs that they're handled inadequately by the ref, but that wouldn't change the facts... This World Cup, 2006 I mean, shows us a lot of stuff where you first think it's clear, but after the replays, it looks entirely different. And I have to admit, I think most refs are doing good jobs here... Seeing things correctly. That on TV look off (before replays).

... Hmm... Just finished watching GER vs. ARG. Don't want to spoil this for late-viewers (so look away now), but they shouldn't have won that game. I don't think this was earned. Then again: You simply should have made that other goal, Argentina.

 

[Rhisiart]

Home teams do have a very real advantage.

 

[mw84]

I think the match was pretty even. Argentina might of had more possession, well pretty much all of the possession but they failed to do anything with it. I for one am glad Germany won it, mainly because it's one less 'favorite' for us English to compete with, let's just hope Brazil get slaughtered tomorrow aswell.

 

[reed]

bbloke,rhisiart, fryke & gang....

Screw the Bud ads. And the brew too. Sorry you have to see them during the commercial breaks. Have Tartan Special for me.

Germany HAD to win. Home "is an advantage." Indeed. To much money involved? Just a conspiracy thought.

Italy in a minute.


In anycase, these are more or less good matches now. You guys are experts...the best is always the quarter, etc. finals. No? Saturday should be a riot both in the UK and here in Paris.
Best of luck.

 

[Rhisiart]

bbloke,rhisiart, fryke & gang....you guys are experts...

Experts? bbloke, fryke and lilbandit yes. Me, definitely no. I predicted Argentina to win, so that shows how much I know.

I think it has been a good competition, but the cheating by players has left a sour edge to it all (e.g. Thierry Henry of all people, complaining about bad refereeing in the European Champions Cup final, yet clutches his face when elbowed by Puyol in the chest during their crucial win over Spain). Robben of the Netherlands has been the biggest cheat of all.

And whilst I am in critical mode, what is it with TV soccer directors who have a fetish for close-up shots of footballers gobbing (aka. spitting)? Given the timing of these matches, I am usually eating my wife's famed Irish cabbage and bacon during these games and the sight of spittle is really off-putting.

 

[bbloke]

Not impressed. I'll keep my mouth shut unless anyone else raises the England match.

Going out for a walk now.

 

[lilbandit]

Bad luck bbloke, always tough to go out on penalties. Ireland lost out to Spain in last World Cup, I remember the hurt like it was yesterday!