World Cup 2006

[fryke]

So I won't mention the England game. And I have to admit that although I was for Brazil and I actually thought France should've been out before this round (definitely), they simply played better than Brazil. Not understandable that Ronaldo played 90 minutes. Parreira's fault. Definitely. Most definitely. Why hang on to this old man. He had his best game against Japan, when Brazil played _all_ its game towards him against a weaker team, but against a stronger enemy, he just has to leave early or not play at all.

 

[Rhisiart]

Not impressed. I'll keep my mouth shut unless anyone else raises the England match. Going out for a walk now.

I am going to respond.

I still rate England's defence as equal to any team in the world. However, serious mistakes were made:

1. A manager who doesn’t understand that Rooney is there to support the striker up front, not be the man up front himself (leading to Rooney becoming unnecessarily frustrated and prone to foolishness).

2. The typical bottling out of otherwise excellent players in international tournaments, e.g. Frank Lampard.

3. An over long English premiership season, with not enough opportunity for the England squad to play 'friendlies' and bond.

4. A post-1966 arrogance that England deserves to win the World cup.

Don’t miss understand me. I may be Welsh, but I wanted England to triumph. I feel very sorry for England fans. They have been badly let down.

 

[bbloke]

Bad luck bbloke, always tough to go out on penalties. Ireland lost out to Spain in last World Cup, I remember the hurt like it was yesterday!

Thanks. It's getting to be a very annoying habit for the England team, though!

I am going to respond.

OK, that's fine. Nothing you've said has rattled me, either, just so you know where I'm coming from.

I felt very disappointed by the outcome, obviously, and I felt there were also a number of contentious issues, in addition to one of the biggest talking points of the game... It will probably take a little while for me to calm down a bit!

I still rate England's defence as equal to any team in the world.

I'd agree.

However, serious mistakes were made:

I agree there too.

1. A manager who doesn’t understand that Rooney is there to support the striker up front, not be the man up front himself (leading to Rooney becoming unnecessarily frustrated and prone to foolishness).

Yup... I also think the systems we've been using might add to confusion, with players being a bit fish-out-of-water-like at times; that can't help our performances.

2. The typical bottling out of otherwise excellent players in international tournaments, e.g. Frank Lampard.

Agreed, again. Time and time again, excellent players who can do amazing things at club level, seem to go to pot when it comes to the world stage. It's almost inexplicable, as it is not down to better quality opposition or something like that, they sometimes miss very easy chances and make basic mistakes.

3. An over long English premiership season, with not enough opportunity for the England squad to play 'friendlies' and bond.

I don't know. This is possible, but I've never been too sure where I stand on this.

4. A post-1966 arrogance that England deserves to win the World cup.

I'm not sure if it went as far as people feeling England somehow deserved it from the start. I had the feeling it was more a feeling of frustration that England have underachieved for decades now, that the fans feel "forty years of hurt," as it were, and that we now have a collection of young, talented players. It was more that the conditions felt right, or very promising, for the first time in a long time, and so we didn't want to miss this chance after the numerous disappointments of the past (especially in recent years).

Don’t miss understand me. I may be Welsh, but I wanted England to triumph. I feel very sorry for England fans. They have been badly let down.

I think I understand you, and it all seems pretty fair. Thanks.

 

[Veljo]

I watched the English game, and while they haven't played that great this World Cup, they played pretty well against Portugal. It's a shame that it had to come down to penalties, cause then it's basically all about luck.

Anyway, I'm still hoping Italy get knocked out by Germany in the semis after their free ticket into the quarters from that stupid call in the Australian game. Germany vs. France I'm probably tipping for.

 

[lilbandit]

David Beckham retired as captain and probably will not play for England again. I read this morning that he had a knee injury (not sure if it was picked up in first half or before the game) followed by a discussion at half time and it was decided that he should play on based on the fact that he scored a free kick in a recent game. If this is true, it is the most bizarre setup I have ever heard of. "Discussion" at half time in a world cup quarter final?? It should be a quick word about changes if they need to be made and then a fire and brimstone rant to get the players ready to do battle for what could be their last match! England only started playing when Beckham went off!! I couldn't believe what I was watching. Team spirit, grit and hard running were typical English footballing traits that were brushed aside under Ericsson and Beckham.
I thought that England did enough to scrape a result but had Lennon started I think the game might have gone England's way. I also saw Sven Goran on Sky News saying that he was sorry and that he didn't think that they deserved to go home yet. If I was an English fan my blood would boil at that sort of comment. Looking at all of England's results in qualification, group and knockout stages how can he feel that England did enough to merit further progress? They just didn't play well enough and another penalty shootout defeat that could have been avoided now means that that yet another England team will shake at the prospect of another shootout in a couple of years at the Euros.

 

[reed]

bbloke, lilbandit, fryke & gang,

bbloke & "rosbifs", sorry for the defeat. I saw England vs France. Could have been fun. France is back together and on a run. You can not believe how so many supporters here were putting down Domenech and his tactics. Now they are putting on their blue jerseys again.Going with the wind for some. Brazil was a "Paper Tiger," Zidane/Henry/defence were in pretty good shape and there was an okay Referee.That was basically the match.They won it correctly.
Portugal has a lot of yellow cards and a couple of red ones. Zidane too. This will be the tough one, after Brazil.

If it is any consolation bbloke, the French commentator on Canal+ during the England vs Portugal match was very PRO England.Yes indeed. Even during penalties:
"Lampard never misses a penalty!!! Ohhh, Noooo!!!" Gerrard..."he never misses a penalty!!! Incredible!!!!" Carragher...... "never.... " etc. The Portugese fans here caught that. Try to figure that one out.
I stick with my prediction: France-Germany. French winning. Gulp.
That is, if the Italians don't make too much "cinema." or the ref. doesn't play their game.

Cheers all the same.

 

[Ferdinand]

France - Germany, I think Germany will win - tough team, really strong right now. About Italy, they will once again have their so-called "real" fouls during the game, but they will lose, exept if the ref is against them...
Ferdinand

PS: Even though I think Germany will win against France, it will be a tough game, but Zidane... not sure about Germany any more.

 

[fryke]

While I don't actually _believe_ in it much, I actually hope Italy will win against Germany, Portugal will win against France, and Portugal will finally beat the Italians in the final game. Portugal all the way. If only to let Scholari win and bring _some_ Brazil-game back into the World Cup. (No, I don't know what illusions are...)

 

[bbloke]

I'm hoping that Italy beat Germany and that France beat Portugal. After that, hmmm, I'm not sure who I prefer.

 

[bbloke]

reed and lilbandit: Thanks for the friendly comments. People here are obviously disappointed, but there are still a fair number of flags flying. It is comparatively recently that the English have felt it is OK to fly the flag (St. George's Cross), actually.

David Beckham is indeed stepping down as captain, and I have mixed feelings. I think he has done well over the years, and he certainly is a skillful player. In this tournament, however, he really has not been on form, although he did also play an important role on a small number of occasions... including scoring a goal!

Eriksson has brought mixed reactions. He has not filled me with confidence, and his style does not always seem to fit well with the English style, but I was surprised to learn he had the best record of any England manager. He did lead England to victory over Argentina (in the 2002 World Cup) and also was manager when England beat Germany 5-1 (in Germany). Then again... he was coach when England recently lost 2-1 to Northern Ireland (!), so it is hard to know what to make of it all!

England only started to show their proper character in their final match when Rooney was sent off and when Beckham was off the pitch, it's true. Hopefully it was a coincidence (i.e. that Beckham and Rooney were not holding England back somehow), or that it was simply England coming out fighting when the chips were down.

Other issues aside, England just never really caught fire and didn't play well enough. They underachieved, basically; they did not play like we know they could, and the nation is left asking itself why. People are questioning the formations, the management, the captain, the choice of the squad, the injuries and fitness levels, the media, and the abilities of the players (and all English players vs. Continental players in general). I hope a witchhunt won't ensue, it would be more helpful to just know where we've been going so wrong for years. Like I said before, I think Spain and The Netherlands are two other nations who sadly don't quite manage to do as well as they should.

Mmmmmm:

World Cup 1990: Semi-Finals, lost to Germany on penalties
Euro 1996: Semi-Finals, lost to Germany on penalties
World Cup 1998: Round 2, lost to Argentina on penalties
(World Cup 2002: Quarter-Finals, OK, lost to Brazil "normally")
Euro 2004: Quarter-Finals, lost to Portugal on penalties
World Cup 2006: Quarter-Finals, lost to Portugal on penalties

This is getting annoying!

 

[mw84]

Aslong as Portugal get knocked out at the first possible opportunity I'll be happy. Ronaldo picking up an injury along the way would add to that glee, obviously.

 

[lilbandit]

Ronaldo will surely leave Manchester United now? Apparently Rooney tried to get into the Portuguese dressing room after the match to 'Talk' to him!!

 

[fryke]

What. You seriously think that Rooney should _not_ have seen a red card mw84?

 

[reed]

There was a guy on the radio here (obviously thinking the French would win against Brazil) who said, "why doesn't the Argentine Team wait a day or two, that way the Brazilian team can share the same flight back. Saves a lot of money."
Times are tough during the World Cup.
An Italian friend here is busting balls in the local café. "Italy vs Portugal" for the final.
The barkeep, Bernard,the Frenchman who said France will go to the demi-finals, says...."how much do you want to bet?" So far no cash. Only a Kir or a coffee. Germany/France all the way. And Bernard insists: "And we will beat them in their home country!" Who knows. In any case he has been correct since the beginning.
The "Portos" here can swing in any direction seeing how they are many who are French citizens. A good buddy here, José, keeps saying, "hey, may the best team win." However, I know he has stocked a few bottles just in case.... hoping "they" beat the French.

 

[mw84]

Well, for a start he was pulled back by Carvalho before he stepped on his balls, which I don't think was either intentional or the reason he was sent off. I personally think he got sent off for pushing Ronaldo.

The red card was deserved, I'm not saying it wasn't, the thing that irritates me is that the entire thing had nothing to do with Ronaldo, there was no need to come over and provoke Rooney like he did and it was obvious he knew what he was doing, he even gave a little wink to towards the bench just after Rooney had been sent off.

 

[Rhisiart]

People here are obviously disappointed, but there are still a fair number of flags flying. It is comparatively recently that the English have felt it is OK to fly the [English] flag (St. George's Cross).

If I were an Englishman, I would fly the flag with pride.

David Beckham is indeed stepping down as captain, and I have mixed feelings. I think he has done well over the years, and he certainly is a skilful player.

I agree. He has his critics, but he is a workhorse like Gerrard (although of course they are very different players) and I think he has matured immensely over the years. To say that England played better with Lennon after Beckham left the field is like comparing apples and pears. Lennon and Beckham would work very well together.

Eriksson has brought mixed reactions. He has not filled me with confidence, and his style does not always seem to fit well with the English style, but I was surprised to learn he had the best record of any England manager. He did lead England to victory over Argentina (in the 2002 World Cup) and also was manager when England beat Germany 5-1 (in Germany). Then again... he was coach when England recently lost 2-1 to Northern Ireland (!), so it is hard to know what to make of it all!

You may be right, but I think he lost the plot in this World Cup. Conspiracy theorists would argue that he gave up on England a long time ago after persistent press intrusion, and really didn’t care whether England did well in this competition or not.

England only started to show their proper character in their final match when Rooney was sent off and when Beckham was off the pitch, it's true. Hopefully it was a coincidence (i.e. that Beckham and Rooney were not holding England back somehow), or that it was simply England coming out fighting when the chips were down.

I think Lennon made a big difference. However, that should not detract from Beckhams's important contribution in the England side. It was the crazy strategy of leaving Rooney on his own that fecked up the game. Curiously, Crouch proved better at holding the ball (with excellent ball control) than Rooney.

Other issues aside, England just never really caught fire and didn't play well enough. They underachieved, basically; they did not play like we know they could, and the nation is left asking itself why. People are questioning the formations, the management, the captain, the choice of the squad, the injuries and fitness levels, the media, and the abilities of the players (and all English players vs. Continental players in general). I hope a witch hunt won't ensue, it would be more helpful to just know where we've been going so wrong for years. Like I said before, I think Spain and The Netherlands are two other nations who sadly don't quite manage to do as well as they should.

I agree.

Mmmmmm:

World Cup 1990: Semi-Finals, lost to Germany on penalties
Euro 1996: Semi-Finals, lost to Germany on penalties
World Cup 1998: Round 2, lost to Argentina on penalties
(World Cup 2002: Quarter-Finals, OK, lost to Brazil "normally")
Euro 2004: Quarter-Finals, lost to Portugal on penalties
World Cup 2006: Quarter-Finals, lost to Portugal on penalties

This is getting annoying!

Well try being a Welsh soccer supporter. You think you've got it bad!

World Cup 1990: Failed to qualify
Euro 1996: Failed to qualify
World Cup 1998: Failed to qualify
World Cup 2002: Failed to qualify
Euro 2004: Failed to qualify
World Cup 2006: Failed to qualify

 

[Rhisiart]

What. You seriously think that Rooney should _not_ have seen a red card mw84?

Yes, but for recklessness, rather than violent conduct. I don't think Rooney did what he did out of spite. He was over zealous, but not malicious.

 

[bbloke]

What. You seriously think that Rooney should _not_ have seen a red card mw84?

I don't think you should make it sound like anyone who disagrees with you is crazy...

If it was a deliberate stamp, then he absolutely deserves to be sent off for it and disciplined. There is no place for that sort of thing in the game and he would get no sympathy from me. If it was not deliberate, then he doesn't deserve any disciplinary measures at all.

Opinion is divided. At the time, I was astonished by the red card, and everyone was outraged, assuming it was for a minor push (especially as I remember a Portguese player shoving Ashley Cole over, in the back, once he knew he wouldn't get the ball, but he didn't get the slightest reprimand). When people started to think it was about the "stamping" (and the referee did not react towards Rooney or produce any cards until after the push), people genuinely were not sure whether it was deliberate or not. It just isn't a cut-and-dried thing.

I suggest you look at the slow motion replay. Rooney was being harassed for some time in the build up to that, and he was fouled right under the referee's nose. Nothing was done. He kept getting knocked down but was being honest and kept trying to get up. When he made the contentious move, he had been fighting for his balance for awhile and his eyes were forward, not looking at the player behind him. I therefore feel he was trying to get up and battle on, not attack a player right next to the referee. Sure, I could be wrong, but that is my honest belief now and was then too. I also feel that if Rooney lost his cool and intended to lash out... erm... he would have done a more proper job of it!

If you saw the match, you will also have seen Ronaldo very early on "headbutt" (with little force) Rooney in the back of the head and say something to him which didn't look pleasant. After Rooney was sent off, you will also see Ronaldo give a wry wink to the sidelines and pursed lips. All very innocent? He has had a reputation in the UK for cheating beforehand (while playing for Manchester United... nothing to do with games against England), and this certainly will not have helped. I do not think Ronaldo single-handedly threw England out of the World Cup or anything like that (see my earlier posts), but I do consider him to generally be a cheating little ****.

 

[bbloke]

I've just noticed that Rooney has now commented, by the way:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5141510.stm

"I want to say absolutely categorically that I did not intentionally put my foot down on Carvalho," said Rooney.

The 20-year-old added: "I bear no ill feeling to Cristiano but am disappointed he chose to get involved."

"I remember the incident clearly and have seen it several times since on TV," he said.

"I am of the same opinion now as I was at the time that what happened didn't warrant a red card. If anything, I feel we should have had a free-kick for the fouls committed on me during the same incident.

"If you ask any player - and indeed almost any fan - they will tell you that I am straight and honest in the way I play.

"From what I've seen in the World Cup, most players would have gone to ground at the slightest contact but my only thought then was to keep possession for England."

 

[bbloke]

If I were an Englishman, I would fly the flag with pride.

Awww, thanks.

I agree. He has his critics, but he is a workhorse like Gerrard (although of course they are very different players) and I think he has matured immensely over the years.

I agree. I was puzzled by him becoming captain at first, but then came to think it was a good arrangement.

To say that England played better with Lennon after Beckham left the field is like comparing apples and pears. Lennon and Beckham would work very well together.

Possibly; I certainly hope so!

You may be right, but I think he lost the plot in this World Cup. Conspiracy theorists would argue that he gave up on England a long time ago after persistent press intrusion, and really didn’t care whether England did well in this competition or not.

I'd hope that was not the case. Some players said he became more lively in recent times, actually, rather than being his seemingly, usual, emotionless self!

I think Lennon made a big difference. However, that should not detract from Beckhams's important contribution in the England side.

I agree on both counts.

It was the crazy strategy of leaving Rooney on his own that fecked up the game.

I was in favor of it at first, as I thought England would have a solid defence, a defensive midfielder, and a strong midfield in general, with two attacking midfielders. In practice, it didn't seem to work as well as hoped up front, but, then again, 4-4-2 was not going that well either!

Curiously, Crouch proved better at holding the ball (with excellent ball control) than Rooney.

I usually groaned when Crouch got the ball, as I always felt sure he'd lose it soon enough, but Rooney didn't always keep the ball that well either. Hargreaves actually seemed one of the players most in control, and he took the battle to the opposite end of the field on more than one occasion.

Well try being a Welsh soccer supporter. You think you've got it bad!

World Cup 1990: Failed to qualify
Euro 1996: Failed to qualify
World Cup 1998: Failed to qualify
World Cup 2002: Failed to qualify
Euro 2004: Failed to qualify
World Cup 2006: Failed to qualify

Ooooh, you win!