Longhorn

I dont have to look closer at the history of Microsoft to know that they stole the GUI from Apple. Apple was wrong and so was Microsoft but that is business, you do what you have to do to survive.
 
Originally posted by boneske
I dont have to look closer at the history of Microsoft to know that they stole the GUI from Apple. Apple was wrong and so was Microsoft but that is business, you do what you have to do to survive.
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Ugh, must we go over this again and again. Microsoft did not steal the gui from Apple. Both Apple AND Microsoft copied many of the ideas for how gui's should work from Xerox PARC. AAMOF, several of the PARC people left Xerox in disgust when they refused to put any real effort into commercialising it and went to Microsoft!

Originally posted by tsizKEIK
i thought it would be useful. since ur link about Windoze history shouldnt really interest any1 in a APPPLE news & rumors forum (cause if it does. then maybe we should start worrying)

True, why would anyone on this forum be interested in getting an accurate history of computing. Better to toss about comments like:

As for the GUI: If you look closer to M$ history where did they get the idea of GUI? Could it be Apple?

oh im sorry. i didnt know they had a history. i just thought windows was(and is) a bad attempt to copy other peoples innovative ideas (he he he)

I would highly recommend people actually do some research into the history of the GUI and Xerox and Apple and Microsoft (and no, the made for tv movie doesn't count, it is a dramatization) before propagating this misperceptions.
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Here you guys go, here our homework for tonight. The history of the GUI. BinaryDigit will hand out the tests tomorrow.

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/511

At any rate, Jobs, who was first told by Raskin about the fun going on at PARC in 1976, decided that he wanted to bring a team of Appleniks into PARC and see what was causing such a buzz – but again, the idea of Jobs coming in like a kid touring Epcot with a tape recorder hidden under his shirt is mistaken. Apple negotiated a deal with Xerox; in return for a block of Apple stock, Xerox allowed Jobs and his team to tour PARC in December 1979, take notes, and implement some of the ideas and concepts being bounced around at PARC in their own creations. I’m not sure how Xerox felt about Apple subsequently hiring half – perhaps the better half – of PARC’s staff away from them, but the process was relatively above-board; no night kidnappings or bribes under the table at Jack In the Box. Xerox allowed Apple to use their ideas in their machines. As Wozniak says on his Website, “Steve Jobs made the case to Xerox PARC execs directly that they had great technology but that Apple knew how to make it affordable enough to change the world. This was very open. In the end, Xerox got a large block of Apple stock for sharing the technology. That’s not stealing outright.”
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And the Microsoft version of the story:

At the end of 1981, Steve Jobs paid a visit to Microsoft to give them a look at the embryonic Mac, and authorized Microsoft to develop apps for the new, GUI-based system. From 1981-1984, Microsoft folks were all over the Apple labs, working alongside Apple techs to develop applications for the Mac. In the process, Microsoft acquired an intimate familiarity with the inner workings of the Mac design.
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While you're doing your homework, please make one crucial observation. You will without a doubt find many accounts of "the early days". Not all these accounts will be the same. As a matter of fact, the amount of variation is quite startling. They run the gamut from "Apple steals from Xerox, M$ steals from Apple" to "Apple codevelops with Xerox while M$ stumbles bumbles on their own (while also codeveloping with Xerox and Apple).

Some important common themes:

- Apple started developing the gui before Steve ever visted PARC.

- Both Steve AND Bill visted PARC at around the same time, they both "saw the light".

- Microsoft was active in working with Apple in the early days and indeed get to see a lot of early stuff.

Some curious discrepencies in accounts:

- Just how much does the early Mac borrow from Alto/Star/Smalltalk? Some say quite a bit, others say not much at all.

- Jef Raskin left Apple when he didn't like the direction that the Mac was going. But he was a PARC guy. BUT his later attempt at his "pure" Mac vision doesn't even have a gui or pointing device.

- Some say M$ borrowed heavily from Apple, but yet the Windows API is a complete mess. Part of this can be explained by the respective platforms (DOS + 16 bit x86 vs from scratch 68k), but Win is not an x86 version of MacOS.

One good book is the "Mac Bathroom Reader", it seems to be acknowledged by many as being one of the more accurate as well as being a fun read. Be sure to not get sucked in by a single source because it happens to jive with your particular prejudices.
 
Originally posted by binaryDigit
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Originally posted by tsizKEIK
i thought it would be useful. since ur link about Windoze history shouldnt really interest any1 in a APPPLE news & rumors forum (cause if it does. then maybe we should start worrying)

True, why would anyone on this forum be interested in getting an accurate history of computing. ...
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i dont think an accurate history of computing belongs in the NEWS & RUMORS forum ..... especially the part of history invloving windoze :)
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Originally posted by binaryDigit
Ugh, must we go over this again and again. Microsoft did not steal the gui from Apple. Both Apple AND Microsoft copied many of the ideas for how gui's should work from Xerox PARC. AAMOF, several of the PARC people left Xerox in disgust when they refused to put any real effort into commercialising it and went to Microsoft!

And what exactly was the Xerox GUI product? Can I install it in a computer be it Mac or Wintel? Nope! Therefore, NO Xerox GUI product for us... Oh, you mean then Apple's GUI, eh? You surely don't mean M$ GUI because that's a steal not from Xerox (because such a GUI never existed beyond their Parc) but from Apple... That's history! :D

True, why would anyone on this forum be interested in getting an accurate history of computing. Better to toss about comments like:

That's the problem BinaryDigit! You want THAT much to argue with Pro Mac people and that's why you cannot even read... We NEVER said that Wintel's history is not welcome here in general but in an Apple News & Rumors... Read first then argue just for the sake of arguing which it seems that you and other people around here seem to enjoy... :rolleyes:

oh im sorry. i didnt know they had a history. i just thought windows was(and is) a bad attempt to copy other peoples innovative ideas (he he he)

Not only copy but buy and terminate as well! And yes, this is their history! Steal if you aren't able to buy then destroy (aka monopoly) everything...

I would highly recommend people actually do some research into the history of the GUI and Xerox and Apple and Microsoft (and no, the made for tv movie doesn't count, it is a dramatization) before propagating this misperceptions.

There are no propagandas around here other than how one MUST read about Wintel in an Apple News & Rumors forum... I think you never heard about The Cafe or something before... Maybe because your agenda is argue first then read...
 
Microsoft history is very important Apple also. Microsoft partnered up with Apple,and Microsoft was paid to produce AppleBASIC and the Z-80 Softcard for the Apple II. If Im not mistaking they made more programs for them than that.

Now if you guys are complaining about a history lesson being done in Apple News and Rumors I can contact a Mod and have him move our history lesson to the Cafe.
 
Originally posted by hulkaros

And what exactly was the Xerox GUI product? Can I install it in a computer be it Mac or Wintel? Nope! Therefore, NO Xerox GUI product for us... Oh, you mean then Apple's GUI, eh? You surely don't mean M$ GUI because that's a steal not from Xerox (because such a GUI never existed beyond their Parc) but from Apple... That's history! :D
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Are you saying that because Xerox never marketed a standalone gui product that therefore there was nothing to copy? You do know that Xerox actually sold the Star right? And saying that because you can't "install it on a Mac or Wintel" that somehow it isn't important couldn't have been "borrowed from" is just laughable.


that's the problem BinaryDigit! You want THAT much to argue with Pro Mac people and that's why you cannot even read... We NEVER said that Wintel's history is not welcome here in general but in an Apple News & Rumors... Read first then argue just for the sake of arguing which it seems that you and other people around here seem to enjoy... :rolleyes:

Actually I'd recommend that YOU read first. Every post that I quoted said nothing of the inappropriatness to this forum. I've seen those posts, and I was not commenting on them. Plus by your definition, it's fine for you to post your comments, but when someone doesn't agree, or has issue with what you post, then they're labeled as "argumentative". Oh, and BTW, I am a "Pro Mac" person as well :rolleyes: and have been literally since there was a Mac. I'm just an anti-misinformation person.

There are no propagandas around here other than how one MUST read about Wintel in an Apple News & Rumors forum... I think you never heard about The Cafe or something before... Maybe because your agenda is argue first then read...

Again, you should read EXACTLY what I was responding to.

That brings up the issue of "Apple News and Rumours". Perhaps a more appropriate name would be "Apple Related News and Rumours" or even just "News and Rumours" as the things being discussed often are not about Apple itself, but news that is of interest or somehow affects Apple and it's users.

I didn't originate this thread, but as much as you seem to dislike it, you can't help but keep it alive. The title is clear, there is no reason for you to be reading it if you are truely not interested in it. This would have been a short thread about Longhorn, it's UI and a bit of technical info about IE. Some Mac folk would have found it interesting and that would have been that. You started off fine, you didn't feel that it was appropriate for this forum and you made a comment to the moderators. Beyond that you should have just ignored it if the subject matter didn't interest you. Though you may feel that this thread is off topic, adding even more off topic posts is even worse. Your flippant comments surely didn't add anything to the thread.
 
No, it's Apple News & Rumors. And Longhorn, while definitely not an Apple News & Rumors title, was an interesting thread at the beginning, I think. Also, times were slow, so we let it run here...

I don't know whether the Café is the right place, but I guess there's some Windows Beta discussion forums out there that would fit. Sadly, I can't move the thread there, now... ;-)

I'm moving this to Opinions now, as that's what it fits more into at the current state.
 
So that means the new VPC 7 xpversion for mac will be less money, since it needs to feature longhorn now which will replace the high price of xp, and knock the xp price lower. meh i'll just DL the new vpc 7, i'll only use it once lol. I used it for kazaa, but it usually messes up... trust microsoft..
 
Hmm... Buying VPC for Kazaa would certainly be quite a bit of overhead for a free software. But then again, if you're using Kazaa to pirate copyrighted material, I guess your conscience is fine with pirating VPC, too, eh?

Here's to the hope that Apple will start to generate some change in people's minds with iTunes Music Store... If only it were international and Windows compatible already...
 
Originally posted by Androo
So that means the new VPC 7 xpversion for mac will be less money, since it needs to feature longhorn now which will replace the high price of xp, and knock the xp price lower. meh i'll just DL the new vpc 7, i'll only use it once lol. I used it for kazaa, but it usually messes up... trust microsoft..
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...chose RealPC if it was to run Windows apps... The current version is only for Mac OS 9 but the up and coming will support OS X as well and also will give you the ability to even utilize your Mac's graphics in order to let you run Windows 3d graphic apps and games!!! But I would personally buy such a product... Also, about using Kazaa here are some alternatives for Mac which some will work for you some may not:
- Hotline
- DirectConnect
- Acquisition
- Carracho
- LimeWire
- Neo

Anyways, I would personally try to utilize them if I could never find an original song like say:
- Stevie Wonder (if I'm not mistaken) - Part Time Lovers :rolleyes:

I cannot wait Apple's Music Store for Greece!!! :p :D ;)
 
Erhm... 'no' would be a simple answer to the thread... What do you mean by 'copy'? It doesn't...
 
It doesn't; it does much much more than OS X does. I'm not sure if I like it or not, it is a cool idea but I might be too much for both me and my processor :)
 
after seeing those three video clips, i don't see the usability on those features. that's too damn weird. let alone i want windows, and for my windows to be doing that?

if you don't know what i'm talking about, i guess you have to go check out the link from the first post.
 
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