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Don't listen to RedStarr. He obviously doesn't know anything about copyright laws.

:rolleyes:

Timan:
I strongly suggest you visit a lawyer's office for a couple of hours (initial consultations are often free) and show them that "disclaimer" you have and explain what you are trying to do. I bet they'll agree that you're treading on extremely thin ice.
 
i know what you mean but i don't get why my site out of all the aqua sites is being targeted. i mean what is it the best one? i mean aqua-soft.org has been up for over a year. and all apple did was say remove their logo thats it. so i think i'll take my site down but i don't know what i'm gonna do with it.
 
Will Shipley said it best.

This applies to Apple's GUI as well. You WinXP users looking for Aqua GUI replacements may feel you aren't doing anything to harm Apple, but you are. How OS X looks is a key selling point over it's competition (WinXP). If you steal that, you are removing that key selling point, and potentially hurting Apple sales.

It's no different than if some PC case manufacturer came up with a round, half sphere base for their PC and hung a LCD monitor off of a retractable arm. It goes to branding, and it's why Apple was so protective of the original iMac and the "clones" that appeared from eMachines.

It's also why Apple lost it's original GUI case against Windows. Apple argued that because the Windows OS functioned like the Apple OS, and adopted some of it's features, that it was copying it. However, Microsoft was at least keen enough to not copy the general look of the Mac at the time. Sure, Windows used folders and a trash can, but the widgets looked different enough that it didn't cause confusion with users. And that's where the legal argument is.

I realize NeYo and Timan are probably teenagers, and don't have much respect for this, but it is very important. Intellectual property is just as protected under the law as physical property. Maintaining a site that provides WinXP users the tools to make their PC's UI mimic that of OS X is intellectual thievery. It hurts Apple, it hurts OS X developers, and it hurt OS X users. We wanted Aqua, and we got a Mac. If you want Aqua, get a Mac.

And Timan, be clear - it's not the "look" of your site that infringes upon Apple. Yes, MacNN has an "Aqua" look to their osx.macnn.com site. But they do not provide any tools to make Windows look/act like OS X. This is where your site teeters on illegality.

And finally, I have to throw my 2cents in about grammar. If you are Herve and are using a translator to communicate, then bad english is excused. If you are from an English speaking country and can't get a cognitive sentence out via typing, that be prepared to be ridiculed for it. The first impression made upon people is usually in regard to their speaking/grammar skills. If you want everybody to think you're an idiot, than by all means don't pay any attention to your grammar and type in hacker speak. If you do want to be taken seriously, well, take the time and communicate using the english language, not some unknown subset thereof.
 
have you been to the site lately I guess not I should talk about other things, and you should read the whole thread first. I said I removed everything cause I'm sick of this bs from people like you.
and what's with this age stuff. it doesn't matter, just don't be jealous if someone younger than you knows more and is more intelligent

oh and by the way i used a spell checker (not everyone is engrish )

ah your the guy that started this thread i'd like to personally thank you!:eek:
 
Yes - I've seen your site recently.

Yes - I've read this entire thread.

Yes - I'm the one who started it.

oh and by the way i used a spell checker (not everyone is engrish )
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Obviously, you didn't use a spell checker there. And, if you notice, I didn't criticize your spelling - I criticized your grammar.

And, no I don't take it personally when someone is younger than me and more intelligent. However, that person is not you. Sorry.

Go ahead and try and make this personal if you wish. If I'm off base about you being a teenager, I apologize. That said, you haven't disputed it, so I'll assume you are.

There are some Mac posters here who have been a bit harsh, but not nearly as harsh as the Aqua thieves lurking about.

And if you read the beginning of the thread, it was to point out that you had copied the Sosumi theme, which I (and obviously many other Mac users here) felt was humorous. Sorry if the publicity drew attention to your Aqua thievery.
 
Originally posted by Timan:
just don't be jealous if someone younger than you knows more and is more intelligent
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Don't be juvenile, please.

And as far as the grammar goes, I know it pains me to read your posts because the grammar is so bad. I don't know what's so hard for people to grasp about this, but it's a fact:

People take you more seriously when your grammar is good.

It indicates that you put a little thought into your sentence structure, and hence your argument as well. It's really not that hard to make sure you make sense, and you'll get a lot more respect because of it.

-the valrus
 
I have been lurking in this thread for a little while now, and thought I'd finally give my 2 pennies worth.

(Wasn't this thread officially closed by an admin? Just kidding.)

Many Mac users have made it abundantly clear to these sites that they are thieves, losers, rippers, themers, lamers, imitators...Well, you get the drift. Nothing but cut down after cut down. It was quite sad, really, because as a Mac owner, I know that we usually have a higher caliber of personality among our ranks. To see such a display of disrespect made me avoid commenting for fear I would be labled one of those 'attackers'. We are better than that, folks.

Personally, I own 4 Macs, a MacII Plus, 2 68k machines, and A 7200. I ALSO own 3 PC's and when I am using them, I find Microsoft's UI clumsy and oafish, so, as a way of combatting the 'less than adequette' UI, I have had to seek out alternatives that give me the interface I am used to. I have found many of these easy to use apps on these sites, and I can happily say that I am a convert. No, I don't mean a convert to Windows, but a person who is accepting to this form of flattery. It makes my life so much easier having the tools I am used to. (I even found Gimp for x86 recently and I am exstatic.)

Threatening a site or a person who provides, distributes, or writes these apps is absolutely ridiculous. Most all of you who complained are losing nothing by their existance. All your losing is your own personal time, by devoting so much of it to flaming and threatening these sites.

These apps are flattery, and you not seing that is sad. Many of you broken records keep touting the "Infringement" aspect, but as I hinted to before, it doesn't infringe on you personally, so how can you be so offended that you would write to Arent Fox? Isn't that a little extreme? They are providing apps for us to use when we get stuck on x86 machines at work or home, and they are charging NOTHING for it. If your so inclined to attack on the merits of infringement, then why not attack http://babya.freehomepage.com/ for their blatant rip-off that they are both charging for, AND calling all the apps by the Mac OS names. He calls it an OS, but it is a lame VB script. Or how about http://www.stardock.com/ who provides the Mac OS 8 and OS X appearance in their skins, and they charge for them too! Regardless, these Babya morons and Stardock thieves deserve your wrath more since they are asking for money, and MacXP, AquaSoft, and more like them NEVER have, and NEVER will.

I admit, the apps have a similar appearance to Apple's design, but isn't that the point? So we may work easier in the Win32 environment. Stop foaming at the mouths, brothers and sisters. This isn't a "Mac vs. PC" war, it's Mac users helping out fellow Mac users...period. It was never meant as a slight against Mac OS, Apple, or any of you personally.

And to those who say it hurts Apple's bottom line by losing them customers, I say your wrong. Niether myself nor you can provide proof to the contrary, but I would tend to believe that it would help Apple by attracting NEW customers who didnt know what they had to offer before. Point me to proven statistics other wise and I will concur, but until then, I believe it helps Apple.

Ease up, relax, take a chill pill, whatever...just stop jumping on the "Buy a mac if you want the OS" bandwagon, 'cause if you'd try reading a little, you'd see they already DO have Macs...that's the point.

To those who want to continue the lame war, see this.

P.S. If your gonna flame or fight, be fair and concise, not barbaric and neanderthal like.


Duckie
 
Oh for gods sake, shut up with the petty grammer arguement! Every time any of you attack someone else it just makes you look stupid so STOP. Maybe twyg should officially close the thread now...
 
Originally posted by googolplex
Oh for gods sake, shut up with the petty grammer arguement! Every time any of you attack someone else it just makes you look stupid so STOP. Maybe twyg should officially close the thread now...
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Hey man, ya misspelled "grammar" and "argument." :D

Seriously though, I'll stop. But I would be lying if I said that bad grammar didn't bother me. It just seems like such a small amount of extra effort for so much more instant credibility.

And I warned everyone that I would be the Grammar Ass here. Maybe I should change my little label from "Made of Dumb."

Or maybe not :D

-the valrus
 
i know here i think this was all over i removed everything and it was all peachy now..... its a different story


just give it up. yall got what yall want and as for grammer CHILL OUT this is the inet now school.

the only reason i deal with this is cause i visit this site all the time *(i'm a mac user u know)
 
valrus, I err purposely spelled those two words wrong :).

It may bug people, but we should not be attacking people's age and intellegence.
 
Originally posted by googolplex
It may bug people, but we should not be attacking people's age and intellegence.
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Or lack thereof. :p

Anyways, no matter how you look at it, it's not flattery, it's copyright infringement. And I don't think it's fair that us Mac users finally get something good and Windows users just steal away because they "don't like Luna." And yes, a lot of Windows users who will never pay Apple back will use it.

Well, you don't like something? Then don't use it. I don't have as much trouble with Mac owners using it for personal use, but distributing it to everyone, including non-Mac owners, bothers me.
 
Originally posted by googolplex
valrus, I err purposely spelled those two words wrong :).
Click to expand...
Yeah, thought you might have. Pretty crafty. ;)
No, really, I did.

It may bug people, but we should not be attacking people's age and intellegence.
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Hope you're not accusing me of that.
Cuz, you know, I ain't doing it.

-the valrus
 
Originally posted by dricci


...no matter how you look at it, it's not flattery, it's copyright infringement. And I don't think it's fair that us Mac users finally get something good and Windows users just steal away because they "don't like Luna." And yes, a lot of Windows users who will never pay Apple back will use it.
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Uh, did you completely ignore my post? We are NOT regular Windows users. Why is that so hard for some of you to grasp?

I don't have as much trouble with Mac owners using it for personal use, but distributing it to everyone, including non-Mac owners, bothers me.
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Why? Are you gonna get mad when your favorite music group goes mainstream too? Are you gonna get mad everytime someone uses a phrase you made up? Anyway, it IS Mac owners using it for personal use.

Duckie
 
Well, if you would have read through all the pages, somebody clearly stated they had no interests in Macs and never would but they still used Aqua. I was referring to these types of people, not you. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of them.

Why? Are you gonna get mad when your favorite music group goes mainstream too? Are you gonna get mad everytime someone uses a phrase you made up?
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Is this supposed to have something to do with this? 'Cause it totally flew over my head :eek:

Anyway, it IS Mac owners using it for personal use.
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Nope, not all of them. See first paragraph.
 
...Personally, i have the Belief, that All this Aqua Business is earning Apple Money, Thru Converts! ... Back @ tha "Windows" Forum ... i know @ least 5 people who now Run OS X... And the Aqua Skinning, whether it be on their on XP Desktop, or another OS X user's Screen Cap ... is one of the MAJOR Factors! ... i know B'cus it was persuasive in my eyes also! ;)

Neyo
 
OK, Dricci, with that I will agree. I HAVE seen alot of copies of Mac UI all over the place, but MY point was: Why is it some Mac owners feel it is their solemn duty/problem to report a web site made by a mac owner to help Mac users? Sounds hypocritical to me.

I will also admit that some of these same people I am defending haven't exactly shown themselves to be very respectful, however, I will continue to defend their rights.

Finally, I was using an analogy(the music/phrase comment) based on what I have witnessed here. It seems to me that some of the posters here are insinuating that the Mac UI is only for a small group of people, and that's just palin silly.

Another analogy: Just because I use a specific brand of toothpaste doesn't mean I can tell other people they can't.

Duckie
 
DISCLAIMER: The following post does not have any references, expressed or implied, to any other MacOSX.com board member. Nor does it imply anything with regards to Windows users or Mac users. Furthermore, any references or implications of any opinions should not be construed as such, and therefore it is the fault of the reader if the post makes the reader angry.

By reading this post, you agree to the above statements, and acknowledge that simX does not and will not take any responsibility for any strong emotions that it may cause on the reader.

------------------------------------------

With that said, let me try to say some things with regard to copyright infringement and intellectual property rights.

Obviously from the scope of this thread, it is easy to see that this is not an issue that is black & white. There is a lot of fuzzy areas, and issues could be argued effectively for either side.

From some of the screenshots that I was able to see, some of the programs like Aqua Mail and Aqua Finder (I will refer to them as such from now on, even if their names are not correct) look almost EXACTLY like Mac OS X's Mail and Finder programs. If Apple were to actually take legal action, they would have a pretty strong case. The programs looked almost exactly the same, and from that I infer that they probably would have functioned similarly.

Now I understand that Windows users might be looking toward an easier to use mail program on Windows. But copying Apple's program is not the answer. Mail is very easy to use on Mac OS X, but if you copy the interface religiously, it could be seen as stealing the interface. When designing a Mail program, it would be best not to model it religiously after another program, but to start from the ground up and make the features easy to use without copying the interface elements of Apple's Mail program. Then if your Mail program has some features that are strikingly similar to Apple's Mail program, you have much more of a case for defending yourself because you did not directly copy it; it just happened that the features are similar.

As an example, if you made a simple Mail program, Apple could not sue you for allowing it to download and read mail just because Apple's Mail program downloads and reads mail as well. This is, obviously, a ridiculous thing to argue. A similar thing could be said for other features like bouncing e-mails and having the drawer come out from the side. But when your program looks religiously like Apple's Mail program, it basically implies that you copied, and copying amounts to stealing.

The themes are an even more complicated issue. Like one user mentioned, there is the issue of brand recognition. If you have an Aqua Mail program and Apple's Mail program sitting side by side and they look exactly the same, obviously people would get confused as to which is which, and this could cut out of Apple's sales of Mac OS X because they think that Aqua Mail is what they are getting. This would be illegal. However, if Aqua Mail had similar features but not a similar interface, then users would be less likely to be confused, and thus it would be harder for Apple to prove as illegal.

The same thing applies to themes of the OS in general. If a theme goes out of its way to look exactly like OS X, then some users could get confused, and Apple might lose a sale of a computer because the consumer thought that the themed Windows was actually Mac OS X. When I see pictures of themed Windows and it looks STRIKINGLY like Mac OS X, I would even go as far to say that it might actually be a screenshot directly from Mac OS X. This is showing that I could get confused as to whether it is Mac OS X or whether it is Windows. This constitutes a violation of intellectual property rights, and Apple would have a case on cracking down on themes like that.

Less religious themes would be harder to prove as violations of intellectual property rights. But the various levels of copying I will leave to true lawyers (I am not one). I'm just trying to give you a taste of what the actual legal arguments are.

I hope this clears some things up.
 
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